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How difficult is it to find an effective daytrading method?

  • #61
  • May 12, 2013 6:39pm May 12, 2013 6:39pm
Quoting 60minuteman
A really nice combination is using two timeframes, 2 steps apart.. Weekly direction on H4 Daily direction on H1 H4 direction on M15 {image}
Nice example. The waves are more dependable when they move with the tide.
  • #62
  • Edited 9:08pm May 12, 2013 8:41pm | Edited 9:08pm
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} The strategy is simple, but you have to have the right information. Then you have the challenge of believing in it... that may take longer. Rule 1 to put at the top of your plan is accepting the laws of scale... M5 is exactly the same as daily, weekly, H4, etc etc.... they all behave in the same way... fact! But a weekly move will not stop at a daily line, and a H4 move will not stop at M5... Higher the timeframe more power... fact, it's just basic principles of scale. Apply scale to your trading and you have an edge.
Ok. Simple = Easy? May be yes. May be no. May takes minutes. May takes decade?
If you have been a successful day trader, how long have you spent to be successful?
  • #63
  • May 12, 2013 8:42pm May 12, 2013 8:42pm
Quoting emailpat
Check out Price Action Trading Equation by Julie Hatch and Dadas Thread on FF combine the two and you have a method
Before combining, you have 2 methods.
  • #64
  • May 12, 2013 8:46pm May 12, 2013 8:46pm
Quoting California
Nearly all strategies are one of these three things: 1) breakout, 2) reversal, 3) pullback. Most people are wired to trade one of these. Figure out which one you are drawn to. Then ask yourself whether you prefer trading with or without indicators. The first 15 years of my trading career I was a pure pa trader and never used any indicators besides an ma. Never had a need for them. Since then, I have found some to be quite useful when the settings are tweaked away from the default settings. Sure, they lag, but when used appropriately they can make...
Thanks for your feedback, by the way, do you think it is difficult to adpot or develop an effective daytrading method?
Ok, I will consider very difficult, if it requires thousands of hours. Difficult if it requires hundreds of hours.
  • #65
  • May 12, 2013 8:59pm May 12, 2013 8:59pm
If your gonna be day trading I recommend you use a futures so you dont have to worry about the spread, and a system that is based on limit orders preferably.
  • #66
  • May 12, 2013 9:17pm May 12, 2013 9:17pm
Quoting kk007
{quote} Thanks for your feedback, by the way, do you think it is difficult to adpot or develop an effective daytrading method?
My post #69 is timeframe independent. M5, W1, it doesn't matter. You will only know by taking the time to do some backtesting. Some do not backtest, and so they spend months following a thread or a strategy, only to find out it didn't suit them. In the meantime, they have wasted precious time on it. There are many fish in the ocean. If a thread or strategy does not connect with you relatively soon, then move on to another one. Sooner or later, you will find one that speaks to you.

I pm'ed you about Flag Trading the Trend, which is a simple pullback system using an indicator with EU M5 and targeting 1R, i.e. scalping. I tested it with about 70% accuracy, if not slightly more. It took me very little time to learn it, besides going through part of the thread. This strategy is exactly what I meant in my post #69 where I talk about just taking a trend indicator like a 50 ma and an oscillator and do some experimenting to see how the indicator reacts when price pulls back and then recovers. The OP of that thread found a great combination that works. Anyone else can do the same thing.

So, yes, it can be done, but you must get your hands dirty and do some backtesting. In any case, I wish you great success.
  • #67
  • May 12, 2013 9:30pm May 12, 2013 9:30pm
Quoting endroute
First lets be perfectly clear the markets have not changed price still goes up, down and sideways there may be fewer long term trends as of late but the markets works the same as it always has. For me I have a few key patterns, not the ones that are batted about on this forum, I have found after years and years of trading and looking at charts. But trading is more than just finding some pretty reliable entries, which is what everyone focuses on, it is about knowing when to cut your trades short and get out with a small loss vs having your SL hit...
love your quotes ,,sir,,
The only way you are going to learn this is by taking thousands of trades and spending thousands of hours in front of charts and not in forums on threads like this
( ,,yes I admit it's a hard way to get there,,)
books and mentors work only slightly accelerate
the rest is
personal training and personal experience

salaam
  • #68
  • May 12, 2013 9:53pm May 12, 2013 9:53pm
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} With a clear head and some logical thinking trading is a simple and basic game of probabilities, sacrificing pawns in chess to win rooks and bishops is obvious and easy to execute, but try getting someone to lose $50 bucks 4 times on the trot with a chance of winning $300... you can guarantee once they're down $100 they'll be chucking the towel in..
This is what exactly I do. I can accept loosing $50 4 times in a row and then winning more than I loss, and yes my balance always raising when I use this system of probability although the winning rate is just about 50%. Very different result when I use a common system.
Dangdut is a music of my country
  • #69
  • Edited 10:30pm May 12, 2013 10:09pm | Edited 10:30pm
Quoting California
{quote} My post #69 is timeframe independent. M5, W1, it doesn't matter. You will only know by taking the time to do some backtesting. Some do not backtest, and so they spend months following a thread or a strategy, only to find out it didn't suit them. In the meantime, they have wasted precious time on it. There are many fish in the ocean. If a thread or strategy does not connect with you relatively soon, then move on to another one. Sooner or later, you will find one that speaks to you. I pm'ed you about [url="http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=280673"]Flag...
Thanks for your response. Let me ask you further.
How long have you been successful with the Flag Trading the Trend?
How many trades have you made during the time?
Seems very few people trading the method recently.
  • #70
  • May 12, 2013 10:32pm May 12, 2013 10:32pm
How hard is it to find and effective day trading method?

Firstly as you read many of the posts here (mine included) remember that every poster is more than aware that 95% fail in trading. No one here wants to be in that group. Just a thought!

I don't think I ever FOUND an effective trading method. But what is effective to you may be useless to me, most of the mum and dad investors that roam these forums have quite a lot more to invest the markets and so are happy to settle for a medicare way of viewing the markets and this is enough for them. They are happy clearing 10% a year and compare themselves to hedge funds and think they know what's up.

But that to me in not effective as I would rather poke my eyeballs out for money than get fried by radiation in front of a computer screen for 10%. They run around tooting that anyone claiming to make more than 100% a month in the markets is lying or lucky or a scammer.

It hurts them too much to believe/acknowledge that 100% returns some months are actually possible and so shoot down any idea that is opposed to their "superior and wise" philosophies. Then of course the 95% of loses who can't make even 1% a month fuel this fire in agreement.

Anyone with any real understanding, or edge in the markets knows this is BS. How do they know? Because they do it day in day out.

Anyway personally, all I ever FOUND was ideas from other people and their methods which lead me to develop my own. This needed CONSTANT tweaking and adjustment and to this day it keeps evolving. How difficult was it to "find". Well very... But I found what many others never will because I wasn't afraid to look, to try, to never give up and accept nothing but success. Until you get to that point, you need to fend off the constant attack of the human condition. This thread is laced with it.

Anyway... I started with one pair on one TF, and went around in a lot of circles as the market shape shifted it's form throughout the years. Extremely frustrating experience mixed with extrememly eye opening and exhilaration experiences. In that time I lost friends, developed a drinking problem, lost respect from my own family members and pretty much ceased any remanence of a "life". Not many are willing to make such sacrifices. I would gladly do it all again.

I now watch 7 different major pairs and all their crosses across 5 different TF's thistakes A LOT of practice to be able to assimilate that amount of information and then make an accurate assumption in time. imho 95% of traders are only watching 5% of the market and have no idea profitable or not, wtf is really going on. There are 2 type of traders predators, and their prey. It's really as simple as that.

No one here (on this forum) from what I've seen trades like I do, so no matter what BS people spout at you, know that there is always other neichs and ideas to explore. My advice would be to never rely on anyone else for learning (of course get inspired and get ideas), but learn to think for yourself, this is your only chance. Form an idea or concept and just run with it, for every 10-20 that will fail, one will stick that you can take with you for the rest of your time.

Excuse my long post and GL with it
Time hides Nothing
  • #71
  • May 12, 2013 10:45pm May 12, 2013 10:45pm
I trade for living. I have more losing trades than winning trades. I end every month in profit. Money management is name of the game if you are playing trading game. If you are gambling then you don't need money management.
  • #72
  • May 12, 2013 11:15pm May 12, 2013 11:15pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
How hard is it to find and effective day trading method? Firstly as you read many of the posts here (mine included) remember that every poster is more than aware that 95% fail in trading. No one here wants to be in that group. Just a thought! I don't think I ever FOUND an effective trading method. But what is effective to you may be useless to me, most of the mum and dad investors that roam these forums have quite a lot more to invest the markets and so are happy to settle for a medicare way of viewing the markets and this is enough for them....

agreed ,with your quotes,,madam,,,

But what is effective to you may be useless to me

salaam
  • #73
  • May 12, 2013 11:32pm May 12, 2013 11:32pm
Quoting mr.kho
{quote} agreed ,with your quotes,,madam,,, But what is effective to you may be useless to me salaam
He's a sir, not madam.
  • #74
  • May 13, 2013 3:17am May 13, 2013 3:17am
Thanks a lot Cindy. I have read your response a few times before commenting!
The most touching bit in the essay is that you've suffered again and again.
Sounds too me there was no simple short-cut to bring you forward to your goal.
While 95% fail in trading, some think it is a piece of cake!
This is an inspiring story. Nice sharing!!
Quoting CindyXXXX
How hard is it to find and effective day trading method? Firstly as you read many of the posts here (mine included) remember that every poster is more than aware that 95% fail in trading. No one here wants to be in that group. Just a thought! I don't think I ever FOUND an effective trading method. But what is effective to you may be useless to me, most of the mum and dad investors that roam these forums have quite a lot more to invest the markets and so are happy to settle for a medicare way of viewing the markets and this is enough for them....
  • #75
  • May 13, 2013 3:19am May 13, 2013 3:19am
Glad that you can trade for a living by focusing only on the single idea of money management. Sounds very simple.
Good Luck!
Quoting goldfinger
I trade for living. I have more losing trades than winning trades. I end every month in profit. Money management is name of the game if you are playing trading game. If you are gambling then you don't need money management.
  • #76
  • Edited 3:05pm May 13, 2013 2:22pm | Edited 3:05pm
Day trading is the most difficult way to achieve profitability because of the spread.

I lost 20k in the my first 12 months of trading 7 years ago. Talk about pain and suffering - I was broke, a single parent living in a bed sit when I borrowed the money to start trading. There was no summer holiday for my kids that year or the year after.

But I did 80K worth of trades with that 20k. I was trading many different instruments including stock and indicie cfd's, fx and gold. It turned out that, as a complete noob, I had actually broken even on those trades. The loss was entirely trading costs, spread!

These days I watch and study multiple time frames like Cindy, but I only trade one pair EUR/USD mainly because it has the tightest spread

I trade with a 7 pip stop including a 1 pip spread on EUR/USD. This means I lose 7 pips after a 6 pip move against me. To realise 2 x risk for my reward, I need to net 14 pips. To get those 14 pips, I need a 15 pip move in my direction because of the 1 pip spread.

The market needs to move 2.5 times the distance to my stop for me to get paid only 2 times the risk I take. Those odds are hard to beat.

Most of my trades lose. I can easily lose more than 10 trades in a row. That is psychologically hard to take.

My techniques are well documented here with many trade examples but nobody follows them. As soon as they hit the first decent losing streak they quit and move on to look for something easier and better


Day trading is the most profitable way to trade. It is the only way to achieve the types of gains Cindy speaks of. You are going to have to dig real deep to find it is all
BTC Return This Year: na
  • #77
  • May 13, 2013 3:04pm May 13, 2013 3:04pm
Quoting kk007
While 95% fail in trading {quote}
Not sure where you got that stat from...the truth is here
  • #78
  • May 13, 2013 7:09pm May 13, 2013 7:09pm
I'll quote a trading buddy of mine. This applies to lots of traders here on FF.


"Most trading students spend almost all of their time in the phase of gathering information. This is encouraged by the believe that the more information they put in their heads, the more enlightened they will be. So they jump around from thing to another reading dozens of books, forums and threads on different trading styles and subjects. This can be likened to the 'trading buffet line'.

Now there is nothing wrong with learning information. Indeed, if gives people the necessary background. The problem is that people make a false idol out of gathering information, and it may not lead to anyway. It can be trick, a carrot and a stick.

That is why what's really important isn't what you know, but what you do with what you know. What really matters in terms of quickening your trading development is the phase of application.

At some point, the student has to take everything he or she has learnt and apply it to every chart that appears in front of them, every time they sit down to trade."
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
  • #79
  • May 13, 2013 7:36pm May 13, 2013 7:36pm
Quoting endroute
First lets be perfectly clear the markets have not changed price still goes up, down and sideways there may be fewer long term trends as of late but the markets works the same as it always has. For me I have a few key patterns, not the ones that are batted about on this forum, I have found after years and years of trading and looking at charts. But trading is more than just finding some pretty reliable entries, which is what everyone focuses on, it is about knowing when to cut your trades short and get out with a small loss vs having your SL hit...
I totally agree - it's all about accepting the fact that sometimes, your entries are just not in the right direction, and you need to get out before the small loss becomes a headache (and heartache).

You always have to re-evaluate what the market is telling you at that point in time.

Let the winners run, and cut your losers short. Manage the risk, and soon you'll find that there are not too many entry systems where you cannot make a killing as a daytrader.
  • #80
  • May 13, 2013 8:52pm May 13, 2013 8:52pm
Quoting California
{quote} Not sure where you got that stat from...the truth is here
From CindyXXX ,

1. About 95% "day traders" fail and quit
2. About 65% trading accounts lose in the last quarter

Are 1 and 2 necessarily contradictory?
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