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H4 Power

  • #261
  • Apr 18, 2013 11:26pm Apr 18, 2013 11:26pm
Quoting whatfx
finding it hard to comprehend what you are saying. can you give a chart example ...?
The flow of the market is basic. Trend = higher highs higher lows or lower highs lower lows. Trend is also TF dependent. For example D can be up but 4hr can be going down. 4hr down 15 min up.

These are genuine lower highs and even if against D trend or above 4hr 50 ema a 4hr lower high, engulfing negative close should have some follow through.
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  • #262
  • Apr 18, 2013 11:31pm Apr 18, 2013 11:31pm
Again my humble opinion, from a 4hr chart you'll get 3-4 good trades a week, max 5. Cannot recall when I last saw 6 trades from 1 pair.
  • #263
  • Apr 19, 2013 12:43am Apr 19, 2013 12:43am
Quoting Vantage
Again my humble opinion, from a 4hr chart you'll get 3-4 good trades a week, max 5. Cannot recall when I last saw 6 trades from 1 pair.
So don't look to get into everything? Just wait for when all the things line up like weekly s/r with space to move?
  • #264
  • Apr 19, 2013 2:05am Apr 19, 2013 2:05am
Quoting vamp
So don't look to get into everything? Just wait for when all the things line up like weekly s/r with space to move?
I don't regard myself as any kind of inside bar expert so that might change the numbers a little. Any method involves some back testing (20 days uptrend, 20 days downtrend 20 days sideways a good basic starting point) but as long as I've been checking 4 charts you have 95% chance of up to 5 decent moves in a week off 4 hour. If you believe that (don't take my word on it) then it becomes looking at the moves in line with the method i.e. what candles seem to work that you can see (not everyone will see things the same).

The trading basics will always remain, trend and support/resistance levels the 2 key factors.
  • #265
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:26am Apr 19, 2013 4:26am
Quoting Vantage
Again my humble opinion, from a 4hr chart you'll get 3-4 good trades a week, max 5. Cannot recall when I last saw 6 trades from 1 pair.
Yeah generally I get one trade a day from an instrument, sometimes two but often one of those is a fake move down to the s/r before reversing.

Important to know too... got to have realistic expectations of how you're trading!...
tradewith60
  • #266
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:30am Apr 19, 2013 4:30am
Quoting Vantage
I don't regard myself as any kind of inside bar expert so that might change the numbers a little. Any method involves some back testing (20 days uptrend, 20 days downtrend 20 days sideways a good basic starting point) but as long as I've been checking 4 charts you have 95% chance of up to 5 decent moves in a week off 4 hour. If you believe that (don't take my word on it) then it becomes looking at the moves in line with the method i.e. what candles seem to work that you can see (not everyone will see things the same). The trading basics will...
Vantage I would go even further and say that trend and support and resistance are the only elements of technical analysis that are real, purely based of price at a specific level.

Trend being the flow of price from low to high tf s/r and back down again making a pattern that is fairly easy to read and possible to track.

Considering the swing patterns that you use to read the market, a series of higher highs and lows on H1 is in effect H4 closing over H4 s/r and retracing to H4 s/r before continuing.... that will continue until it hits the higher tf s/r.

Understand these basics and DON"T add to them and you can become a half decent trader, technically anyway....
tradewith60
  • #267
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:32am Apr 19, 2013 4:32am
Really nice setups on EJ and GU today with an awesome R:R ...

Great RR if you consider your SL on the entry chart (M15).
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #268
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:34am Apr 19, 2013 4:34am
60m,

All interesting stuff but how do you account for the fact that different people have different sized 4 hr candles?
For someone it could be a pin bar or a piercing candle and for another that same 4 hr could turn out to be
engulfing. You can compare my 4 hr chart with the one posted by Jasper and see the difference. Since we are
relying on patterns, how do you decide which 4hr chart to go with? By extension, it also messes up the daily
candles.

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In other news: A ranger was trapped between a bull and a bear
  • #269
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:38am Apr 19, 2013 4:38am
Quoting digiff
60m, All interesting stuff but how do you account for the fact that different people have different sized 4 hr candles? For someone it could be a pin bar or a piercing candle and for another that same 4 hr could turn out to be engulfing. You can compare my 4 hr chart with the one posted by Jasper and see the difference. Since we are relying on patterns, how do you decide which 4hr chart to go with? By extension, it also messes up the daily candles.
You must find your setups based on your own candles.

This is why it's difficult to compare our H4 setups while we all have different broker server time.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #270
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:43am Apr 19, 2013 4:43am
Quoting digiff
60m, All interesting stuff but how do you account for the fact that different people have different sized 4 hr candles? For someone it could be a pin bar or a piercing candle and for another that same 4 hr could turn out to be engulfing. You can compare my 4 hr chart with the one posted by Jasper and see the difference. Since we are relying on patterns, how do you decide which 4hr chart to go with? By extension, it also messes up the daily candles. {image}
You will get some variance in opens/closes that's true, but.... if the market is really selling off... you will both get the signal, you may have a different pattern or get the signal at a different time... but over time it make hardly any difference at all to the results. So one may get an engulf and the other a two bar engulf, one may get an outside bar the other an engulf...... Remember it is impossible for price to turn around on any timeframe without price switching from closing over the previous bar to closing under.

Opens and closes show the weight of bias and direction, I run two accounts on different h4 opening times both accounts offer the same opportunities (with very few exception).

With regards S/R (high/lows)... the swing points are pretty much the same...
tradewith60
  • #271
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:43am Apr 19, 2013 4:43am
Quoting FerruFx
Really nice setups on EJ and GU today with an awesome R:R ... Great RR if you consider your SL on the entry chart (M15).
can you share your idea for EJ and GU ? with charts .. for learning purposes.

Thanks!
  • #272
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:45am Apr 19, 2013 4:45am
Quoting FerruFx
You must find your setups based on your own candles. This is why it's difficult to compare our H4 setups while we all have different broker server time.
That's what I thought but that raises the problem of valid and invalid setups as outlined by 60m. What could be a
valid setup on your chart, could be a no-go on mine and vice-versa. Hope you see the dilemma here.
In other news: A ranger was trapped between a bull and a bear
  • #273
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:45am Apr 19, 2013 4:45am
The 4H candle start times vary between brokers. They will look different.
  • #274
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:49am Apr 19, 2013 4:49am
Quoting 60minuteman
You will get some variance in opens/closes that's true, but.... if the market is really selling off... you will both get the signal, you may have a different pattern or get the signal at a different time... but over time it make hardly any difference at all to the results. ..
I was thinking maybe a particular broker server time would be ideal for the setups you are talking about. Thanks for clearing that up.
In other news: A ranger was trapped between a bull and a bear
  • #275
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:50am Apr 19, 2013 4:50am
Quoting digiff
60m, All interesting stuff but how do you account for the fact that different people have different sized 4 hr candles? For someone it could be a pin bar or a piercing candle and for another that same 4 hr could turn out to be engulfing. You can compare my 4 hr chart with the one posted by Jasper and see the difference. Since we are relying on patterns, how do you decide which 4hr chart to go with? By extension, it also messes up the daily candles. {image}
here you go, ALPARI and GKFX EU H4,

See how the lows (the s/r that stopped the down) are the same,

the h4 candles have different patterns but we can read them and get the same message... that is the nature of price action, it can only move in one way no matter what TF
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tradewith60
  • #276
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:50am Apr 19, 2013 4:50am
Quoting Jasper Ng
can you share your idea for EJ and GU ? with charts .. for learning purposes. Thanks!
Sorry, I don't have time to post charts

Just look at your charts based on the strict thread rules ... and you will see clearly very nice entries.
MT4/MT5 EAs/Indicators/Alerts coder
  • #277
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:51am Apr 19, 2013 4:51am
Quoting digiff
I was thinking maybe a particular broker server time would be ideal for the setups you are talking about. Thanks for clearing that up.
As what 60min previously said, most imporant is you get the direction right. if H4 doesnt give you the pattern maybe you need to go lower TF to get it. like H1 ? .. i think with H1 it solves the problem on difference opening timing of different brokers. Probably in H1 you will need to catch 2 bar engulfing instead of 1.
  • #278
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:53am Apr 19, 2013 4:53am
Quoting digiff
That's what I thought but that raises the problem of valid and invalid setups as outlined by 60m. What could be a valid setup on your chart, could be a no-go on mine and vice-versa. Hope you see the dilemma here.
Also REALLY IMPORTANT.......


we're not looking for a key to open the magic win rate box.... we are looking for that hint that the direction is ready to move in one direction until it hits a higher tf s/r... we then take a cheap entry aiming for a much larger reward. Over time if we are repetitive with that we will make money....

We're playing a numbers game (everyone is in fact!)
tradewith60
  • #279
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:58am Apr 19, 2013 4:58am
Quoting 60minuteman
Also REALLY IMPORTANT....... we're not looking for a key to open the magic win rate box.... we are looking for that hint that the direction is ready to move in one direction until it hits a higher tf s/r... we then take a cheap entry aiming for a much larger reward. Over time if we are repetitive with that we will make money.... We're playing a numbers game (everyone is in fact!)
Got it. Thanks again.
In other news: A ranger was trapped between a bull and a bear
  • #280
  • Apr 19, 2013 4:58am Apr 19, 2013 4:58am
Quoting Jasper Ng
can you share your idea for EJ and GU ? with charts .. for learning purposes. Thanks!
EJ H4
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tradewith60
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