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The 95% of losers, it's true?

  • #141
  • Apr 8, 2013 12:05am Apr 8, 2013 12:05am
I think most traders are looking for the quick and easy buck. Trading is a business and should be treated as such. There is nothing easy about it and must be constantly learned and monitored. The markets are constantly changing and just as you feel you have a handle on things, they change. You just need to adapt and change with the markets.
  • #142
  • Apr 8, 2013 3:27am Apr 8, 2013 3:27am
Trading in Forex / commodities are in the custody of Big Fish hands. In capitalism Big fish eats small one. The only way to succeed in trading is do as Big Fish do and think as Big Fish are thinking.
  • #143
  • Apr 8, 2013 11:58pm Apr 8, 2013 11:58pm
I've been to lots of seminars/conference over the years. You see hundreds of people in attendance hoping to make easy money, you never hear any feed back about their success, I would expect at least 95% to fail without follow up tuition and hand holding for awhile.
Making money while you sleep, gotta love it.
  • #144
  • Apr 9, 2013 5:26am Apr 9, 2013 5:26am
In concurance with my partner above ^^

People generally make the same mistakes as other beginners because of a lack of experience. This generally leads to losses or becoming one of the '95%' and for this reason they dont continue to try and create/perfect a working system.
Viper Managed Investments
  • #145
  • Apr 9, 2013 7:11am Apr 9, 2013 7:11am
At least 95% losers for sure. This is very difficult on all levels.
As for the seminars/teachers/gurus/ just ask them why are they wasting their time teaching when they could be using all that knowledge themselves to make lots of cash$$$.
History is written by the victors.
  • #146
  • Apr 9, 2013 7:27am Apr 9, 2013 7:27am
I'd like to think that there are genuine people out there to help. I've learnt alot from others for sure and if they make money helping me then good luck to them. Only problem is you can't always pick the cons early enough.
Making money while you sleep, gotta love it.
  • #147
  • Apr 9, 2013 10:15am Apr 9, 2013 10:15am
Quoting Money-RX
At least 95% losers for sure. This is very difficult on all levels. As for the seminars/teachers/gurus/ just ask them why are they wasting their time teaching when they could be using all that knowledge themselves to make lots of cash$$$.
Such as there are people teaching all kinds of things, in the most various areas, highly revenue or not, also it doesn't mean they don't profit or haven't profited from it...
  • #148
  • Apr 9, 2013 10:45am Apr 9, 2013 10:45am
Teaching is a noble profession and I applaud all those who are genuinely dedicated professionals in their line of work. I have met too many that are failures in some aspect of the business world and end up teaching the same areas of expertise that they failed. A very wealthy friend of mine says "I never take advice from someone who has less money than me".
Or to put it another way - who would you rather have coaching your forex career - George Soros or the lackey on the internet pitching the latest trading system?
History is written by the victors.
  • #149
  • Apr 9, 2013 11:03am Apr 9, 2013 11:03am
The true number, revealed to me by a UK spread betting firm is 99% when success is based on quarter on quarter results.

In 2006 I was taken to lunch at a swanky golf club by my spread betting broker IG Index. They wanted to know if I and my trading partners had found a way to 'beat the spread' as they called it. That was the only way that they had found punters able to win - with arbitrage.

At the time we were trading our system called grail and was making serious money from them. At the time we were on around £90 per pip per account, three of us had accounts.

Eventually the conversation came around to "how many people actually win from you guys" after some considerable shifting around in their seats they told us that out of the thousands of clients they had they could count the number of successful ones, (that made decent money) on two hands.

I believe that they were telling the truth.

Their game is to keep you in their game. Like the casino's, the longer you play the higher the probability of you losing. That's why at casinos they ply you with drink and freebies. The longer you are in there the more likely you are to lose. Often the shirt from your back.

Forex is no different to a casino. The definition of gambling (at least in my eyes) is when you place a bet on something and once that bet is placed you have no control over the outcome. The 'spread' is in effect the two zero's on a roulette wheel

When we played grail we took money out regularly. All of the brokers we traded with lost money to us APART from IG Index because they were the ones we were with when grail crashed.

Just my tuppence worth
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #150
  • Apr 9, 2013 4:39pm Apr 9, 2013 4:39pm
Quoting Money-RX
Teaching is a noble profession and I applaud all those who are genuinely dedicated professionals in their line of work. I have met too many that are failures in some aspect of the business world and end up teaching the same areas of expertise that they failed. A very wealthy friend of mine says "I never take advice from someone who has less money than me". Or to put it another way - who would you rather have coaching your forex career - George Soros or the lackey on the internet pitching the latest trading system?
True, but as it is commonly said, "the apprentice becomes the master" inherent of our evolution as human, when someone failed at something, other's may learn form him, and truly become successful. From what you learn and your experience at something you may choose what's in of the things you've learned that you can or can't use and that you find being true or false, right or wrong, and came out being successful with that, my point is, someone who failed at something may be a great winner's teacher, who may never or hardly win, if it wasn't for his teacher.
  • #151
  • Apr 9, 2013 5:27pm Apr 9, 2013 5:27pm
Why is it that when you make a mistake and lose money it is painfully obvious what you did wrong, after the fact.
When placing a trade though, it feels like a sure thing (almost!).
Making money while you sleep, gotta love it.
  • #152
  • Apr 9, 2013 6:23pm Apr 9, 2013 6:23pm
Quoting ViperLead-01
Why is it that when you make a mistake and lose money it is painfully obvious what you did wrong, after the fact. When placing a trade though, it feels like a sure thing (almost!).
One may never 100% include all the variables ruling this market, so you may never be 100% sure it will go that way, to think as "almost sure" is in fact facing the fact it can go against you, from the things i've learned here there's one that i found primordial, risk management, knowing you'll lose for a fact and accepting it, while you trace your strategy is imho one step ahead of the "95% black number"
  • #153
  • Apr 10, 2013 12:27am Apr 10, 2013 12:27am
The big question is, why is everyone still trying it, when they know that 99.6% of people lose money with RETAIL FOREX? Hope? Or some "other" reason?

What makes them think, they will be part of the Gifted 0.4% that make a living long term?

I would really like to know it. (in case we are not talking about a gambling attitude)

Also, even the 10+ vouchers, most of them dont trade or dont make a living off RETAIL FOREX TRADING. Some do money in the forex business, but not in trading, some have blogs and get paid for referrals, affiliates, others get paid to code in MT4 for people or teaching lessons via Skype.

Even the forum owners, most of them dont trade FOR A LIVING, instead they make money with banners and paid placements. Sure, a lot of people make a lot of money with everything surrounding the Forex Business, maybe 20K per month or more, but not by trading. If I am wrong, and you are a 10+ voucher nick that did a living off forex for the last 5 years, then quote me and answer me with your arguments, no problem at all.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #154
  • Apr 10, 2013 2:02am Apr 10, 2013 2:02am
I would not be surprised if the 95% of losers is an accurate statistic. Most people trade with the wrong mindset. Trading attracts the wrong people, and perhaps this is due to those pesky and misleading advertisements. They come here looking for quick and easy money and if they don't get at least 10% a day consistently they're not satisfied. Then for those who realize the truth, how many are willing to put in the hard work to become consistently successful in this business? This business is like any other, if you don't put in the hard work then you simply won't succeed.

On the other hand, the 5% success statistic should serve as motivation for those who know this is the business they want to succeed in. Once you get there, you will know all the work and effort you put in was worth it because this is when you will begin to realize that financial freedom becomes a very realistic reality.
  • #155
  • Apr 10, 2013 11:15am Apr 10, 2013 11:15am
The figure has been more like 70-80% according to empirical data.
  • #156
  • Apr 10, 2013 2:22pm Apr 10, 2013 2:22pm
Quoting soultrader
The true number, revealed to me by a UK spread betting firm is 99% when success is based on quarter on quarter results. In 2006 I was taken to lunch at a swanky golf club by my spread betting broker IG Index. They wanted to know if I and my trading partners had found a way to 'beat the spread' as they called it. That was the only way that they had found punters able to win - with arbitrage. At the time we were trading our system called grail and was making serious money from them. At the time we were on around £90 per pip per account,...

Interesting, I have read some of your articles in your blog.

However your experience is not complete, what happened? You wanted to take 10K to 1 million in 2 years, but then in the middle of the journey you stopped reporting and said that it will be private. And later you said that you will reveal it in a book that you will sell soon on the internet.

I mean, let's be honest here... yeah, we all know that's a good marketing strategy (the blog, the story you tell, the book) to make some money selling books. But I don't care about that. Go ahead and do it.

But can we be honest 100%? Did you ever trade? What was the result?... Do you trade for a living nowadays?
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #157
  • Apr 11, 2013 4:24am Apr 11, 2013 4:24am
Hi Maple, nice to connect.

So, let me get this straight. I started the blog 8 years ago in 2005 ... to sell a book I've just written in 2013, is that what you are saying?

I can understand your skepticism in me, it's hard at just three years in the game to believe anyone makes money, but some do. It's few and far between as most burn out before their time has come.

I traded then, i've traded regularly since then and I trade now. I'm semi full time again. At one time I was trading for a New York wealth management company and I had several clients of my own. Those days are long gone though.

After the grail days and the crash in 2007 I took a job as a commercial director for a company but still did swing trading. Last year I had an operation on my voice which took me out of the sales arena so I needed a way to build a recurring income that did not use my voice - which is why I'm a writer and a trader.

Now I'm sure you are going to come back and say "why not just trade" well one of my weaknesses (and many) is that If I'm doing nothing but chart watching then I have to trade - even when the market is wrong.

My way of avoiding this is to make sure I have plenty other things to do. I run three businesses that take the time between trades. When a setup appears I do nothing but trade and am intense (I'm a one minute combination trader right now) when the trade is over I need something else to take my time or I'll just overtrade. I know my weaknesses and that's how I get around this particular one.

This morning for example I've had three trades on euro yen and ended up +20 overall. If I didn't have something else to do then I would have given some of that away by now even though the market is flat. Just the way I handle things is all.

There are a few people left in this forum that remember me in the old days that can vouch for my trading, suggest you ask them whether I'm any good or not.

The book went on sale only today by the way for those interested. It's not to sell the system, it failed miserably in the end and I would never trade that way again. Its for the story and the lessons.
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #158
  • Apr 11, 2013 11:49pm Apr 11, 2013 11:49pm
Quoting soultrader
Hi Maple, nice to connect. So, let me get this straight. I started the blog 8 years ago in 2005 ... to sell a book I've just written in 2013, is that what you are saying? I can understand your skepticism in me, it's hard at just three years in the game to believe anyone makes money, but some do. It's few and far between as most burn out before their time has come. I traded then, i've traded regularly since then and I trade now. I'm semi full time again. At one time I was trading for a New York wealth management company and I had several clients...

Thanks for your honesty. Yes, I have been following the Forex Market since 2005, but I still consider myself a new person in this.

So, you now trade part time and make some extra cash each month? Do you know a lot of people that trade Full Time in ONLINE RETAIL FOREX and do a living off it every single year?

Not saying that you had the idea of the Book since the beginning, your initial goal was to take 10K to 1 million, right? Maybe in the end you had the idea of the book. But still, it would be interesting to have more details on your crash, you could take 10K to 100K and then you lost everything.

Then "Buy the Book"... lol. Like Gekko in Wall Street 2. Just kidding.

Thx for your reply.
The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable
  • #159
  • Apr 12, 2013 2:19am Apr 12, 2013 2:19am
I didn't lose everything. I got out in time! and that was just one method I was trading. Have you seen the other blog from back then? When i say 'crash' I really mean 2008 when sub prime hit.

Is it part time or is it full time? I trade every day in my home office on retail spread betting. I earn an income from it but it's not my only income. Does that make it 'part time' just because I have other income? good question. I class it as full time as I'm here waiting every day for trades.

Whatever rocks your boat.

Yes I do know people that make a living from 'online retail forex' which you seem to be mentioning everywhere, but they are few and far between.

Slats in Canada, Keres in Leeds UK are two that I know for sure do it year in year out. I trade with Keres daily and often speak to Slats.
https://linktr.ee/Soultrader
  • #160
  • Apr 12, 2013 5:48am Apr 12, 2013 5:48am
Quoting MapleLeaf
Yes, I have been following the Forex Market since 2005, but I still consider myself a new person in this.
I have seen a few of your posts and can sense your frustration about this market. Do you, after 8 years of following the forex market, make any money?
Nothing worth having is easy.
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