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Lets end this once and for all... looking for a true ECN

  • #21
  • Apr 2, 2013 1:17am Apr 2, 2013 1:17am
.
Technically speaking the spread could be any positive or negative number. But the market is so efficient that they do not last long.
Also we need to realize that the spread is just a "difference" between 2 prices the bid and the ask. We don't pay it. If we want to buy
we pay the ask if we want to sell we get the bid. So, the so called ECN probably contain a few dozen Bid and ask prices for all sort of
amount placed by the many participants. I would be impossible to know all the differences between them.

A ECN broker's "system" would find ask prices equal to bid prices once in a while (zero spread) or even ask below bids and quote
negative spread.... but how long you think that last in the ECN?? they get hit immediately and most likely we never get it. But someone did.

I assume if a Broker calls for a "minimum" Spread, they would be pocketing the difference if they find zero spreads. If they write it
in their agreement with their clients, it makes it legal.

J
  • #22
  • Apr 2, 2013 6:19pm Apr 2, 2013 6:19pm
Other than being a good ECN broker. Would like to know which brokers provide extra services that could help in being a better trader. For eg. Some brokers provide Trading Central trading signals.
  • #23
  • Apr 2, 2013 9:37pm Apr 2, 2013 9:37pm
Quoting aiming4stars
1. are you interested to trade with another platform than MT4? because nothing will be true ECN or STP with it, since theres always a "dealing desk" at the broker
Sorry but that is totally incorrect. FXOpen AU for example uses MT4 as a frontend. No trades are executed in the MT4 system as they would be in a Market Maker. All of our trades pass into the ECN via our proprietary ECN-MT4 bridge. MT4 is just an interface.
  • #24
  • Apr 3, 2013 12:15am Apr 3, 2013 12:15am
Quoting jeuro
. Technically speaking the spread could be any positive or negative number. But the market is so efficient that they do not last long. Also we need to realize that the spread is just a "difference" between 2 prices the bid and the ask. We don't pay it. If we want to buy we pay the ask if we want to sell we get the bid. So, the so called ECN probably contain a few dozen Bid and ask prices for all sort of amount placed by the many participants. I would be impossible to know all the differences between them. A ECN broker's "system" would find ask...
well here's really my dilemma. it's true a 0 pip spread or even a negative spread does not last very long, i don't understand how brokers can give an absolute minimum. i'm pretty sure in terms of liquidity providers, these don't change too much from broker to broker, especially with a few major ones. however, some brokers advertise this so called "minimum" spread value and then an "average" spread. looking at just the minimum, some brokers state that their minimum is 0 pips while average is about 0.1 pip maybe. however, having a beginner statistics background, i know this average figure shouldn't have too much placed on. after all, it can depends on the calculation and period measured. maybe the broker is taking the middle range...who knows. but my point still remains, a broker like icmarkets offer a 0 pip spread on their mt4 and -0.3 pip on their cTrader while a broker like atcbrokers shows a 0.6 spread and then afbfx ecn shows a slightly higher 0.8 spread. so this really gets me wondering as to why one broker's "theoretical minimum spread" can go lower than another. shouldn't the truth be told that there really is no way to tell? now i wonder, is it possible for spreads to go to an absolute minimum of 0, but some brokers are sly and buff it to maybe 0.1 to get the difference? i know this isn't much, but after all, high volume does add up to such a small difference. truth be told, a broker can always claim to be passing off the order and not "touch" it, but who knows for sure? unless you work for the broker, wouldn't this actually be possible?
  • #25
  • Apr 3, 2013 2:20am Apr 3, 2013 2:20am
.
All Brokers "promote" their own BS and do their own calculation of their "average", "minimum" etc.
But at the end is only that.. "BS".

Like I mention, the ECN probably have hundreds of bids and ask prices at any given millisecond.
All Broker's software see them. Due to competition, probably all pricing at the ECN revolve around
zero difference between asks and bids, But is up the Broker to "quote" their clients with some minimum.
The only thing they have to do is to configure they system in that way.

You are right.. there is no way to tell. The pricing is not an exact science. It does not matter if a broker
"quote" zero or minus spreads once in a while. Even with their best intentions to provide those to their
clients, they would not be able to as the best prices get hit first and gone from the market.

Bottom line is that getting "executable" quotes less then 0.5 pip from any broker is very darn good.
You add 0.25 for commission and that is good at level of less then 100K trading accounts.

In general, if we create strategies to overcome 5 pips from entry, we are in the right path.

J.
  • #26
  • Apr 3, 2013 2:57am Apr 3, 2013 2:57am
I think Baxter are very good ,professional and relay don't trade against you or have a conflict with you wining and you can trade small with them a minimal size account is lowered from 75000$ to 25000$
i used them before and i know many exchanges and finical institutions in Europe and world that use them to hedge there currency reserves when they are highly exposed to a currency .
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #27
  • Apr 3, 2013 3:16am Apr 3, 2013 3:16am
Is this the right?
http://www.baxter-fx.com/

Quoting orabi
I think Baxter are very good ,professional and relay don't trade against you or have a conflict with you wining and you can trade small with them a minimal size account is lowered from 75000$ to 25000$ i used them before and i know many exchanges and finical institutions in Europe and world that use them to hedge there currency reserves when they are highly exposed to a currency .
  • #28
  • Apr 3, 2013 9:00am Apr 3, 2013 9:00am
perhaps this will help. simply create a demo or even live account without depositing to any broker. then download their terminal and run this expert advisor for maybe a week or so. then the log files will be recorded and any1 can do a quick analysis of the spreads for the past week for the given pair. by doing so, you can see what the "typical" spread is. run this ea a bit loner say a month or so to get a more accurate idea of the "typical" spread for the various trading sessions.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=195290

just refer to the link to download, there's already a thread so i don't want to be sending in another request.
  • #29
  • Edited 11:52am Apr 3, 2013 11:11am | Edited 11:52am
Quoting entheos
Is this the right? http://www.baxter-fx.com/
yes it is .as you can see they say clearing account .
Forex is about clearing which occur after two days in Forex market now how many brokers use this word .
clearing meaning getting your profit for you from there liquidity providers
any trade you make will be cleared after two days it is the rule in over counter trading i only heard this word with royal bank .
royal bank also offer Forex trading but they are more complicated in there platform and prices dont move like what we have.
with them it update every while because you use only the bank liquidity and you benefit from trading with the bank only and they surely don't welcome scalpers and you can not scalp but you can trade very well gain if you have a good analysis system with lower margin and lower risk and good gains any money gain is a good gain as long you don't lose
all have a nice day
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #30
  • Apr 3, 2013 11:21pm Apr 3, 2013 11:21pm
After being screwed over by Alpari I have learned that finding a good broker is harder then it looks. I have had great time so far with Fxcm and IC Markets. IC Markets and Fx Open will have tighter spreads though, as they are not part of the NFA trying to create a monoply for them here in the U.S.
  • #31
  • Apr 4, 2013 1:19pm Apr 4, 2013 1:19pm
try liquidity from Integral - they offer really good service as liquidity agregator.
  • #32
  • Apr 4, 2013 5:27pm Apr 4, 2013 5:27pm
Quoting DesertSky
After being screwed over by Alpari I have learned that finding a good broker is harder then it looks. I have had great time so far with Fxcm and IC Markets. IC Markets and Fx Open will have tighter spreads though, as they are not part of the NFA trying to create a monoply for them here in the U.S.
If a broker screwed me he will never run his business again not because i am tough no but because i know how to screw them too
i traded with Refco (they got broke) .oanda ,fxcm.mbtrading,insatforex.alpari ,avafx.interactive brokers .hot spot . baxter .fxsol .exness . and others i don't remember i never get screwed by any one of them in my trading .
i used demo of many others also but no need to mention them
no broker will screw you unless you show a behavior that will make them screw you
all have a nice day
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #33
  • Apr 4, 2013 7:12pm Apr 4, 2013 7:12pm
Quoting orabi
If a broker screwed me he will never run his business again not because i am tough no but because i know how to screw them too i traded with Refco (they got broke) .oanda ,fxcm.mbtrading,insatforex.alpari ,avafx.interactive brokers .hot spot . baxter .fxsol .exness . and others i don't remember i never get screwed by any one of them in my trading . i used demo of many others also but no need to mention them no broker will screw you unless you show a behavior that will make them screw you all have a nice day


Wow...... Your cool


I am such a fool then, cause I not only got screwed over by Alpari but I also got screwed over by PFGBest as well.
  • #34
  • Apr 4, 2013 9:44pm Apr 4, 2013 9:44pm
Do you work in a bank?
hotspot is not receive retail clients.
only institute.
Quoting orabi
If a broker screwed me he will never run his business again not because i am tough no but because i know how to screw them too i traded with Refco (they got broke) .oanda ,fxcm.mbtrading,insatforex.alpari ,avafx.interactive brokers .hot spot . baxter .fxsol .exness . and others i don't remember i never get screwed by any one of them in my trading . i used demo of many others also but no need to mention them no broker will screw you unless you show a behavior that will make them screw you all have a nice day
  • #35
  • Apr 5, 2013 3:14am Apr 5, 2013 3:14am
Quoting entheos
Do you work in a bank? hotspot is not receive retail clients. only institute.
You don't need to work in a bank. 50k will get you a PB account with most Tier 2 Prime Brokers e.g. Baxter, FC Stone or LCG all of whom offer Hotspot, Currenex, FXALL etc...
  • #36
  • Apr 5, 2013 3:48am Apr 5, 2013 3:48am
Quoting DesertSky
Wow...... Your cool I am such a fool then, cause I not only got screwed over by Alpari but I also got screwed over by PFGBest as well.
you already started screwing them you stooped trading with them they lost a lot .average forex trader lose 15000$ in his life trading forex that is losers .a profitable forex trader add more to his broker and bring more clients to his broker so they lost all that if you are profitable .95% of losers and 95% of adding 50% winners
you mentioning this here will make them loss a percent of traders who are thinking of joining them .another one screwed by them will add up to this percentage .
if you have a good case you can take them to court and they will get screwed .if you dont have a good case you still showed what happened with you and there is no smoke without fire .
you have other ways too like preparing a simple recorder for your screen and screen shot program
when a broker screw you for once dont get out add more money and make a record of your trading with video and snap shots .after that you have two choices to claim your previous money or to spread the word saving others from that broker .i will take the other choice .
i have a recorder of my screen and a ready shot screen print out
you need a strong PC for that you will have to do a record of your trades only so you dont fill up the pc with unneeded data it is so easy .
but after all my experience i tell you i never got screwed .

you can tell us in a separate subject how did they screwed you .i would like to know
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #37
  • Apr 5, 2013 3:50am Apr 5, 2013 3:50am
Quoting entheos
Do you work in a bank? hotspot is not receive retail clients. only institute.
they use to have a retailer service before two or three years
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #38
  • Apr 5, 2013 4:00am Apr 5, 2013 4:00am
what i advice all traders to do is dont trade all your money divided to three parts .trade part and keep the two third of money at a bank.
if you lose the part you are trading dont take from those two thirds wait until you make an equal amount from another source and take two thirds add them to your saving account and trade the third .
this way you will be more comfortable less risk taker and have a reverse that will help you in your life .
it also will be reflected in your trading decisions.
Trade one third is a say in our country
focus while relaxed to see better
  • #39
  • Apr 5, 2013 11:04am Apr 5, 2013 11:04am
Quoting DesertSky
After being screwed over by Alpari I have learned that finding a good broker is harder then it looks. I have had great time so far with Fxcm and IC Markets. IC Markets and Fx Open will have tighter spreads though, as they are not part of the NFA trying to create a monoply for them here in the U.S.
i probably won't go for fxopen if i were you. i'm not a big fan of brokers that serve as both a market maker and an ECN. it really adds to the confusion and i question their practice as to keeping the trades separate from one another in terms of how they handle orders. so for one part, they are just passing the orders along and then another half is taking the other side of the trade.

probably stick with icmarkets or armadamarkets.
  • #40
  • Apr 5, 2013 11:18am Apr 5, 2013 11:18am
Quoting jhehe
i probably won't go for fxopen if i were you. i'm not a big fan of brokers that serve as both a market maker and an ECN. it really adds to the confusion and i question their practice as to keeping the trades separate from one another in terms of how they handle orders. so for one part, they are just passing the orders along and then another half is taking the other side of the trade. probably stick with icmarkets or armadamarkets.
totally agreed! i have live acct with armada too,but not icmarkets,how r they on live acct? hows your live armada acct too? any issues with them so far?
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