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Pepperstone Forex

  • #2,121
  • Mar 12, 2013 9:46am Mar 12, 2013 9:46am
Quoting Jack_Larkin
Wait, what? *blinks* ..I'm dreaming right? This is a dream and I'm about to wake up?

Seriously, that's awesome. I might actually have something positive to say about MetaQuotes for a change if they keep breathing new life into MT4 like this.

I don't know about you, but I'll sure be asking when we see this build pushed out to us. I read about the one-click-trader part on a news site but missed the multi-order-processing bit.


Edit: Upon review, it's still good, but not as good as I first thought. Just able to manage up to 8...
When I read Primi post that's what captured my attention.
Now I can merge my 3 terminals into 1 - nice

Diogo
  • #2,122
  • Mar 12, 2013 5:55pm Mar 12, 2013 5:55pm
Just a quick question.....do most of the traders here that have been with Peppers for a while(ie Jack and co), do you have a razor or standard account?

It seems that standard is cheaper by the time you add commission to razor.
  • #2,123
  • Mar 12, 2013 8:24pm Mar 12, 2013 8:24pm
Quoting mitch77
Just a quick question.....do most of the traders here that have been with Peppers for a while(ie Jack and co), do you have a razor or standard account?

It seems that standard is cheaper by the time you add commission to razor.
For EURUSD, include 0.8 pip as commission, and then compare average spreads between account types;

According to http://www.myfxbook.com/forex-broker...-spread/1254,1,
0.4/0.5 is the average spread for razor account.

So if 1.2/1.3 is greater than standard account spread, that may be a good choice - [myfxbook removed the standard accounts from their widgets, sorry]
It may end to be a personal choice; I have a razor, never tried standard, so I have no opinion there.
If I recall ramy uses a standard one

Best regards
Diogo
  • #2,124
  • Mar 13, 2013 9:52am Mar 13, 2013 9:52am
Diogo pretty much covered it.


Roughly, at least by my calcs, it works out to be the same (+/- 0.1-0.2 pips depending on the pair). However, given that the pip value changes depending on the pair, but the commission is fixed as an amount of your account's base currency and charged by the notional value of the trade you place, there are pairs that work out slightly better for Razor and others that may be slightly better for Standard.

I use both, I have three accounts now, two Standard and one Razor. I have the most experience with my Razor account but the more I use Standard the more I end up liking it.

You'll have to do some math to figure out which one is right for you based on your target pairs, and then factor in your trading style (mostly frequency) combined with your personal preference (some just like the psychology of seeing the thinner spread and accounting for the commission after the fact, others just want to see total cost,) and lastly some areas of the world treat costs of doing business (commissions) vs net gains differently when it comes to tax time (but please don't get caught up thinking about this last point if you're still trying to get consistent and profitable.. so many traders start worrying about tax before they even have a dollar of profit to pay taxes on. Cart before the horse type thing.)

I'll try to dig up the post I made a few pages ago on costs that helps explain the account denomination vs pip value thing...
FXGears.com
  • #2,125
  • Mar 13, 2013 9:59am Mar 13, 2013 9:59am
This was in response to a question just like yours but spaced out over a few posts since I was trying to explain how to do the calcs yourself.

The general idea is working out the pair's specific pip value as it coverts to your account's currency. Then compare this to the commission costs for your account's base currency. With this info, you'll see what's better on a pair-by-pair basis.

Though, I'll say right now the differences won't be much at all, so often they only impact you if you're going to be doing 10-20+ trades a day.

Here are the posts, do ask anything about anything you're not sure about, like I said they were written for someone else and it might be a little overkill for your question:

(give me 2 minutes, FF cuts off quotes and doesn't support multi-quotes, so I gotta post first, then edit like a madman to make it look right, will edit here when done completely -- EDIT: all done)

Quoting Jack_Larkin
Pip value.

Simple example:
Say you're trading EUR/USD on an USD denominated account. The quote currency of the pair is USD (the 2nd currency in a pair is the quote currency, with the first being the 'base', look up quote currency in google for more info if this confuses you.)

USD denominated account so commissions are in USD.

Pip values are in USD as well.

1 standard lot = ~$7.50 in commissions with a pip value of $10 on a USD based quote currency pair == 0.75 pips worth of commission.


Not-so-simple example:

EUR/NZD on a CHF denominated account. Commissions are charged in CHF per unit of notional value in the trade (EUR), but the quote currency of the pair is NZD making the pip value different.

You get a cookie if you can do the math and demonstrate that you understand the concept:

1 Standard Lot of EUR/NZD pair traded on a CHF based account, GO! (Must show your work for full marks, passing grade is 60%) lol

--

EDIT: I"m just playing with you of course, the impact of this difference is small and you don't need to stress about it when trading. Having an idea of the pip value is still good when you're trading exotics or crosses, since you might be willing to risk $50 on a trade but need to know what size of a position fits $50 within your 20 pip stop loss distance.. and that might not be as straight forward as a USD based quote currency on a USD account.
--- Then ---

Quoting Jack_Larkin
Look here:

https://pepperstone.com/trading-acco...unts-razor.php

Near the bottom there a link that says "See Table of Trading Commission"

Use this to reference what your commission rate would be given your account's currency denomination. Specifically, notice the 'round turn' total.

.. the 'simple' example I gave above is found easily if you are trading a USD quoted currency pair (XXX/USD) and have a USD account. The pip values match off directly against your account's currency.

However, the number/value changes if you are trading a cross or any currency pair with a quote currency that's different from your account value.

Say you were trading EUR/NZD, and your account was denominated in Yen:

1 standard lot of EUR/NZD would give you a pip value of ~$10NZD per pip change in the EUR/NZD price quote. This, in turn, would need to be converted to Yen for your account, since not only is your account denominate in Yen, but your commissions are charged in Yen.

NZD/JPY is ~78.88 at the time of writing, making the pip value of 1 standard EUR/NZD lot impact your account by ~¥788.8 per pip change in price.

Yen accounts are charged ¥607 per round turn lot. So your commission as a pip value on the 1 standard lot traded of EUR/NZD would be ¥607/¥788.8 ... equaling 0.77 pips when you're trading with a Yen account.

If you were trading with a NZD denominated account, this pip value would be slightly different... slightly.

Are you starting to see why it changes depending on what you're trading and what your account is based in?

Hope that helps!
--- Lastly ---

Quoting Jack_Larkin
You're getting it, nearly there.

(I'm now assuming your deposit currency and account are Yen based since I just realized you were from Japan, lol)

So if you're trading 1 standard lot of EUR/USD, the pip value is $10 USD per 1 pip change in the EUR/USD quote for 1 standard lot.

$10 USD = ~¥934.80 (At the rate my MT4 terminal is telling me for USD/JPY)

¥607/¥935 == 0.65 in pip value on EUR/USD with a Yen trading account. (You just made me realize that given the strong change in Yen value in recent months, it appears cheaper to trade on Yen based accounts now vs USD or AUD accounts given Pepper's commission schedule. lol .. cheaper by ~0.1 pips in tick value.)

Or put another way: the EUR/USD would have to move ~0.7 pips (we round up since prices are quoted in 5 decimals, not 6) in your favour from your entry price before the P/L of the trade covers the commission of putting the trade on.
FXGears.com
  • #2,126
  • Mar 13, 2013 11:04am Mar 13, 2013 11:04am
Thanks Diogo and Jack for the replies.
  • #2,127
  • Mar 15, 2013 12:49am Mar 15, 2013 12:49am
Quoting ramy3
Nope, not a dream, still a comercial member. man...
Hang in there, Ramy . . .

Inserted Video
  • #2,128
  • Mar 15, 2013 8:58am Mar 15, 2013 8:58am
Tried to use Pepperstone again after the last disaster. Price still stops at news events, sometimes even when there isn't anything going on. It's usually couple of seconds to 10-15 seconds.

Right now price stopped moving again for 2 minutes, all other platforms on my pc had no problem.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #2,129
  • Edited 1:32pm Mar 16, 2013 11:56am | Edited 1:32pm
Quoting Baltimore
Tried to use Pepperstone again after the last disaster. Price still stops at news events, sometimes even when there isn't anything going on. It's usually couple of seconds to 10-15 seconds.

Right now price stopped moving again for 2 minutes, all other platforms on my pc had no problem.
it looks like that on my char ~~ but only on eur / jpy

did you talk to the broker?
  • #2,130
  • Mar 17, 2013 6:47am Mar 17, 2013 6:47am
Quoting Baltimore
Tried to use Pepperstone again after the last disaster. Price still stops at news events, sometimes even when there isn't anything going on. It's usually couple of seconds to 10-15 seconds.

Right now price stopped moving again for 2 minutes, all other platforms on my pc had no problem.
I also experienced some freezes surrounding news events, sometimes close to one minute, one time in a short position price moved above my S.l for 31 seconds until it was triggered at a worse price for me by 6.5 pips (the market's volatility wasn't high at that time).
I've sent them an email and i'm waiting for their response.
I'm using an EDGE RAZOR account.
  • #2,131
  • Mar 17, 2013 3:56pm Mar 17, 2013 3:56pm
The freezes occurred on all charts. Didn't contact them yet but I will make some video recordings this week comparing several price feeds from different brokers and send them to them. I also have a demo account running, same thing.

I'm sure now the same users from 5-10 pages ago will come here and say they don't have any problem and if it happens it's in their favour. And it's probably my connection.

Eyal_89, let us know what they say.
  • #2,132
  • Mar 17, 2013 7:35pm Mar 17, 2013 7:35pm
i've seen this also

although havent paid much attention to it because i dont trade over news, and more swing trade

but will start to pay more attention now that you mention it

Quoting Baltimore
Price still stops at news events, sometimes even when there isn't anything going on. It's usually couple of seconds to 10-15 seconds.
  • #2,133
  • Mar 17, 2013 8:01pm Mar 17, 2013 8:01pm
I had the gaps too, and only on EJ.
FF journal: Peaks and Troffs
  • #2,134
  • Edited 9:32am Mar 18, 2013 6:04am | Edited 9:32am
Quoting bogus
I had the gaps too, and only on EJ.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 18-3-2013 12-00-56.png Size: 92 KB


Also, most of the time when it freezes, the bars will paint correctly when it starts working.
  • #2,135
  • Mar 18, 2013 10:38pm Mar 18, 2013 10:38pm
Quoting bogus
I had the gaps too, and only on EJ.
Same, only on EJ and just during that instance they pointed out. I don't think I would have noticed on my own since I don't really use 1M charts often (I'm a 5 and higher kinda guy.)

If it skips a sec thanks to a news release, that's kinda understandable (news gaps?), though the comparison to the other charts still suggests something can be improved, even if that's just how charts paint.

Perhaps we wait for them to report back on what Pepper says about it.

--

Everything's been ok on my end execution quality wise. Been getting clean executions on my stops and limits as usual: Just tonight I reviewed the trades over the last week (since monday of last week to be exact) across my accounts and I had about 5 instances of negative slippage on stop orders with the worst being 1.1 pips (during a volatile post news release) and the average being ~0.5 pips. On the positive side, 3 of positively slipped take profit orders each for 0.5-0.6 pips.

(I'd say this is over 200+ trades, but it would give the wrong impression since most of the trades were by my EA that's quite hyper and closes trades before hitting a stop or limit order, so a ratio of 5 slips to 200+ trades is a bit out of whack for comparison. I think I did about ~50 manual executions, so that's a better number to compare.)

So I'm happy with the result and haven't bugged Pepper about execution recently.

--

In more positive news. . .

I was reading this:
http://forexmagnates.com/metaquotes-...itch-reported/

I'm pleased that Pepper didn't suffer any of the outages other brokers were hit with after the weekend when MetaQuotes updated the terminal/server without warning.

I even read in another broker thread that the broker wants MetaQuotes to write a letter of apology to their clients. LOL

Pepper got stuck with a very similar problem caused by MetaQuotes a month or two back, and some people here thought it was insane that MetaQuotes pushed updates to a broker's server without properly testing or even warning the broker about it, questioning if it really happened or if it was just the 'excuse'... but this shows more evidence of MetaQuote's tendency to do such insane things.

Again though, Pepper wasn't hit this time around. Just bringing up an observation.
FXGears.com
  • #2,136
  • Mar 18, 2013 11:55pm Mar 18, 2013 11:55pm
Hi,
A long time reader but a first time poster to this thread. My question is for those who have withdrawn from Pepperstone. I have been charged about 52 USD for a withdrawal to Hong Kong. I know Pepper's bank charge 20 AUD and for Inward remittance there is about a 8.5 USD charge in HK so I was expecting about 30 USD. Although I have emailed my bank also to give me details, thought I would ask traders who withdraw from Hong Kong.
Thanks in advance!
  • #2,137
  • Edited 2:28pm Mar 21, 2013 5:46am | Edited 2:28pm
Quoting Jack_Larkin
This was in response to a question just like yours but spaced out over a few posts since I was trying to explain how to do the calcs yourself.

The general idea is working out the pair's specific pip value as it coverts to your account's currency. Then compare this to the commission costs for your account's base currency. With this info, you'll see what's better on a pair-by-pair basis.

Though, I'll say right now the differences won't be much at all, so often they only impact you if you're going to be doing 10-20+ trades a day.

Here are the posts,...
@Jack Larkin:
thanks for all your effort and comments here.
One question come to my mind when I am reading your comments.
Why are you found the Standard-account better the more you are working with it?
Thanks for any reply.
Greeds Zack
  • #2,138
  • Mar 21, 2013 6:40pm Mar 21, 2013 6:40pm
Quoting zackery
@Jack Larkin:
thanks for all your effort and comments here.
One question come to my mind when I am reading your comments.
Why are you found the Standard-account better the more you are working with it?
Thanks for any reply.
Greeds Zack
To be clear, I don't think that one is better than the other in all cases.

I mentioned that I mostly use a Razor account but I've ended up liking Standard as well the more I used it.

There's going to be reasons why one is preferred for you individually and it will depend on your desired trading pairs, strategy, frequency of trades, how comfortable you are with managing commissions as a separate cost, personal preference, etc...

If you are only going to scalp the EURUSD on a USD based account then yes, Razor is slightly cheaper to use (by like 0.1-0.2 pips total cost on that pair specifically) and since you're scalping (10+ deals a day) you'll see that difference add up... but not everyone trades this way, not everyone limits themselves to just EURUSD, and there will be pairs that are cheaper to trade on Standard (some exotic, look up DKK's tick value vs trade size to see what I mean, even some popular crosses could end up being on par or better with Standard depending on your account's base currency,) but as I said a few times now, even if there's a difference (where one type of account is cheaper than the other) it won't be by much at all.

In the end, you'll have to see for yourself which one fits your style better.

One thing I'm thankful for is that Pepper didn't do what most brokers pull and create two account levels where one was clearly way better in terms of total cost and then make the better once harder to obtain (though higher deposit minimum or the like.) People can try both as they please since they have the same requirements. Heck, if you have both once you open one, just request a 2nd account of the other type and transfer between them.

Hope that helps.
FXGears.com
  • #2,139
  • Mar 21, 2013 6:47pm Mar 21, 2013 6:47pm
Quoting Sumeet Malik
Hi,
A long time reader but a first time poster to this thread. My question is for those who have withdrawn from Pepperstone. I have been charged about 52 USD for a withdrawal to Hong Kong. I know Pepper's bank charge 20 AUD and for Inward remittance there is about a 8.5 USD charge in HK so I was expecting about 30 USD. Although I have emailed my bank also to give me details, thought I would ask traders who withdraw from Hong Kong.
Thanks in advance!
Sounds like an intermediary bank was required by your personal bank that's receiving the wire.

Wow.. at this point we've covered off so many different things in this thread I can just quote posts to answer questions.. lol.. :

Quoting Jack_Larkin
... sometimes there's intermediary banks have to be used (if the sending bank has no direct link to the receiving bank when it comes to clearing the transaction, which can come into effect on some international wires...though it's not as common of an issue these days.) And again, with banks being 'tricky' they sometimes don't disclose the use or fees of an intermediary til after the wire is sent.

TL;DR: Bankers are jerks.

To the guy asking about wire fees:

In the future you might be able to find a different wire route (if you have an account with a different bank who doesn't need the intermediary to receive a wire, think internationally present banks who probably have networks everywhere with most remote local banks.) Or you can take advantage of the credit card withdrawal option which is entirely free and appears as an 'imbalanced refund' on your CC account. (I actually use the CC method myself and think it's awesome, tis why I keep mentioning it when people ask about withdrawals.)

The key here is you aren't limited to using CC withdrawals only if you funded by CC, you can use it no matter how you funded, and you can use it beyond the net amount you funded as well. Just select "Credit Card Withdrawal" from their withdrawal form within the client panel or from this form: https://pepperstone.com/clients/withdrawal-form.php

And yeah, Pepper themselves only charge what they've posted on their site, and I don't think they make any money from that since it appears cheaper than a few Aussie banks would charge for sending a wire directly with them.
Then the previous person asking about this was confused on who charges the intermediary fees (Pepper has no control over this, the intermediary bank your personal bank uses to receive international wires sets the charge.
Quoting Jack_Larkin
Usually an intermediary bank is used when the receiving bank does not have the facility to clear international wires from some regions around the world. The receiving bank then gets an account setup with a bank that does have such facility, and routes the wire through them.

http://voices.yahoo.com/understandin...s-1810193.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_transfer


--

This is why I mentioned in the other post that you should look into alternative routes, like a bank account with an internationally present/active bank, to do such wires... or use another method for withdrawal.
FXGears.com
  • #2,140
  • Mar 22, 2013 12:37am Mar 22, 2013 12:37am
I am so over these freezes in the Pepperstone feed. I've loved Pepperstone except for this issue (and no...it is not my internet connection as I have other broker feeds open at the same time without the freezes Pepperstone has on multiple occasions every day.)
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