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Looking for Currenex Broker with $5000 deposit

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 12, 2013 12:03pm Mar 12, 2013 12:03pm
Hi

I know there are other threads on this but I wanted to see who people can currently recommend.

I am using a demo of Alpari's Currenex platform, i only trade majors and the spreads are superb. Typically 0.1 to 0.6 pips on cable and euro. The only sticking point for me is the $20,000 minimum account size. I am looking for another broker who can offer me the same currenex platform (or white label) thereof with a lower account minimum $5000 would be good. Also no funny business with the prices/slippage et cetera. I am based in the UK so I would prefer a broker that is FSA registered.

Thanks in advance.

Good trading to you.

PS - forgot to add the commission cannot be huge. My volume will be around 10m per month to begin with and the max commission I could pay would be $50 per million traded, $30 per million preferred.
  • #2
  • Mar 12, 2013 1:07pm Mar 12, 2013 1:07pm
Currenex will not give you an edge. And nobody opens a currenex account with 5k. If they claim so then this is simply not true considering what is the fee structure of currenex. If you have a good strategy then trade with FXCM, Armada Markets or GFT. I have tried them all. Or trade futures on the CME Globex. Be safe.
  • #3
  • Mar 12, 2013 1:15pm Mar 12, 2013 1:15pm
Quoting TuttiDFrutti
Currenex will not give you an edge. And nobody opens a currenex account with 5k. If they claim so then this is simply not true considering what is the fee structure of currenex. If you have a good strategy then trade with FXCM, Armada Markets or GFT. I have tried them all. Or trade futures on the CME Globex. Be safe.
I am not looking for currenex to give me an edge. I have been trading for 5 years ish so know whats what. are any of those true ECN's. thanks
  • #4
  • Mar 12, 2013 2:52pm Mar 12, 2013 2:52pm
People tend to exaggerate ECN-s. They are not some kind of magical venues where a nice girl from a bank like JPM or Deutsche let's you do whatever you wish with her. She maybe stupid but she knows how to make you pay.

If you have been trading for 5 years then clearly you must know that there is no real liquidity. It is just numbers flying around and and everyone expects you to let go of your money. I have been trading with FXCM and Armada Markets for a while now and have not had any issues. Same with GFT. That said I am not claiming that they are some sort of super-duper Transformers from another planet who can easily absorb both nuclear explosions and your flow. At least they have a clean trading environment and don't provide 50% or more deposit bonuses which means that they do want you to make it. But here is my advice to you: do something real, become a carpenter, build something, teach others or just create anything as trading is just a game with numbers without creating any value for the society.
  • #5
  • Mar 20, 2013 9:45am Mar 20, 2013 9:45am
The key thing for me is I am looking at developing strategies where I am a price maker on exotic pairs. It is vital therefore that my orders go into the book and I can trade inside the spread. Take USDNOK the spread is around 20 pips. If I come in and place a bid and offer inside the spread I need my order to show so I can be hit.

I chatted to Armada and whilst they look good they are essentially a market market that uses LMAX inside pricing and a couple of other LPs. When I questioned them on whether my order gets sent to the LMAX exchange they confirmed the order sits on their server until price hits that point and is then passed to the LMAX exchange. i.e. if the market is bid 40 offer 60. I enter a buy at 41 to be the inside bid my order does not go anywhere until the offer price = 41 and the order is sent to LMAX for execution. Armada may well be fine for price takers but not price makers.

So i am still on the lookout for currenex or other broker with a low deposit where my orders go into the book and can be hit as I make prices. options so far I have come across are $20k deposit Alpari currenex, $10k deposit LMAX direct. which is looking like the way forward at the moment.

Any other suggestions out there please?

PS - delusionals will be ignored! lol
  • #6
  • Mar 21, 2013 9:07am Mar 21, 2013 9:07am
Hi. Just be aware that what you write about Armada is correct, your pending orders are NOT written in the order book of LMAX, so nobody can see them and "take" them. You have to wait until the best bid/ask matches our order for it to be triggered, so you can't PROVIDE LIQUIDITY, only TAKE LIQUIDITY, and you can NOT "earn" the spread, only pay it. BUT (and that's the point I want you to know) I have been told that METATRADER-4 can *ONLY* work this way. So *ANY* broker proposing Currenex or any other network with MT4 will (as I have been told) work this way. That's not what you want, you want other people to be able to hit directly your orders, and not have to wait until a liquidity provider proposes the price you want.

For sure, LMAX' MT4 works this way too (I have an account) ! If you want to be able to provide liquidity, you have to use their website, multicharts or API to place your orders, you can't do it with MT4 (and LMAX proposes the same solution as Armada, it's an MT4 from a third party: PrimeXM, it's not even LMAX's own MT4). I guess that it will be the same with ALPARI. And you can check HOTFOREX, but again: No liquidity providing.

If you want some "real" Currenex, you won't even be able to it with 20K, it will be a minimum of 50K, and you will have to work with a Prime Broker.

Your solutions (at least the ones that come to my minf right now): FUTURE trading on GLOBEX like someone said, but no exotics. Or you have DUKASCOPY and LMAX. For Dukascopy, they provide a software that you will need to get used to (check it on demo). Or with LMAX you will need to use their website (no automated trading possible) or BUY multicharts and get used to (great, but not free anymore) or use their FIX/API (possible with Dukascopy too). About LMAX's minimum deposit, it is possible to open an account with them with only $1000 if you open it through some IBs, check "Alpha Novae".
  • #7
  • Mar 21, 2013 9:16am Mar 21, 2013 9:16am
Quoting sh5467
Hi

I know there are other threads on this but I wanted to see who people can currently recommend.

I am using a demo of Alpari's Currenex platform, i only trade majors and the spreads are superb. Typically 0.1 to 0.6 pips on cable and euro. The only sticking point for me is the $20,000 minimum account size. I am looking for another broker who can offer me the same currenex platform (or white label) thereof with a lower account minimum $5000 would be good. Also no funny business with the prices/slippage et cetera. I am based in the UK so I would...
Fastbrokers.com has all you requesting above:
- Currenex Liquidity from Alpari (they have other currenex too)
- Min. Account is 2,500 even through alpari
- Commission is 29/Million

they have their onw platform which connects to Currenex, not sure you can use Viking there.
  • #8
  • Mar 21, 2013 9:16am Mar 21, 2013 9:16am
Just about what I wrote: I'm not 100% sure that no broker is able to propose you to provide liquidity with MT4 ... It is the way MT4 has been developped to work (keep all orders internally and execute them only when the price is available), but I guess a broker can pass your orders to the order book (when one exist, we're not talking of market makers anymore here) if they work with a "BRIDGE". Forget LMAX with MT4, but I tell you this for ALPARI, you have to check with them *HOW* they work (good luck, as this kind of information will be hard to get from support, even to have them understand what you want to know, lol). When you get the answer, please tell me, I'm interested. Check this out with HOTFOREX too.

You can have a look at MB Trading, but I didn't hear some very positive comments about them (never tried personnally). They put in place a system where THEY pay you to provide liquidity, but I guess your orders can ONLY be hit by other customers of MB Trading, not anyone else. You would be in better position on a network like Currenex. And MB Trading is able to do it with MT4, so they can do it ...
  • #9
  • Mar 21, 2013 10:21am Mar 21, 2013 10:21am
Quoting Mevo
Hi. Just be aware that what you write about Armada is correct, your pending orders are NOT written in the order book of LMAX, so nobody can see them and "take" them. You have to wait until the best bid/ask matches our order for it to be triggered, so you can't PROVIDE LIQUIDITY, only TAKE LIQUIDITY, and you can NOT "earn" the spread, only pay it. BUT (and that's the point I want you to know) I have been told that METATRADER-4 can *ONLY* work this way. So *ANY* broker proposing Currenex or any other network with MT4 will (as I have been told)...
so,what do u think of LMAX or Armada,really?
  • #10
  • Mar 21, 2013 10:38am Mar 21, 2013 10:38am
Currenex pricing and liquidity is different with each broker. It can be configured how ever the broker in questions wants it to. The low deposit Currenex brokers will have just the LPs they have a relationship with and their client's orders in the system. So the overall quality of the product will vary greatly from firm to firm.

However, brokers have an option to add a service called "FxTrades" to their currenex hub. This adds additional liquidity and client order flow not only from their own LPs, but form a whole lot of other firms who participate in the FxTrades program. So if you have a trading strategy which involes liquidity provision, i would make sure that you are on an fxtrades enabled currenex account. Minimums will be higher tho, trades <100k are generally discouraged.
  • #11
  • Mar 21, 2013 12:09pm Mar 21, 2013 12:09pm
Quoting shrike
Currenex pricing and liquidity is different with each broker. It can be configured how ever the broker in questions wants it to. The low deposit Currenex brokers will have just the LPs they have a relationship with and their client's orders in the system. So the overall quality of the product will vary greatly from firm to firm.

However, brokers have an option to add a service called "FxTrades" to their currenex hub. This adds additional liquidity and client order flow not only from their own LPs, but form a whole lot of other firms who participate...
Yes and no: Currenex is currenex, period. But it's correct that a markup can be added to best bid/offer enabling a broker to propose Currenex without a comission (paid by the markup, widening a little bit the spread). But this isn't what the guy who asked the question wants, because if there's a markup, no pending order will be routed directly to currenex, but held by the broker and triggered when directly marketable. And that's exactly what he does NOT want (according to what I understood he wants to do)

And about liquidity: Currenex liquidity is currenex liquidity, period. Currenex is a market with its own order book composed of every trader with pending orders on it (Currenex is know to have quite a lot of HFT robots, so very competitive, but with good spreads/liquidity). A broker can aggregate some other liquidity to currenex if he wants, that's correct, but it isn't really Currenex anymore in this case, but currenex + other liquidity source.
  • #12
  • Mar 21, 2013 12:40pm Mar 21, 2013 12:40pm
Quoting fxking
so,what do u think of LMAX or Armada,really?
LMAX is probably the best "retail" broker you can trade with (Unless you have mini 50K and go with Currenex, HotSpot, Ebs ...). It's a real marketplace, where there is an order book, and every single trade (including yours) are in that order book. Everybody has full access to it. As described earlier, this enables you to buy at the BID if someone takes your trade (you earn the spread which is paid by the person taking your trade), which is impossible with quite every other retail broker as you will only buy from a LP (liquidity provider) at the ASK (you always pay the spread which is earned by LPs). To fully use it, you should trade with MultiCharts or the API/FIX. But anyway, even if you use MT4, it is a very good broker with tight spreads (and tigher the more competition there is) and fast execution. No market maker tricks like forbidding you to place your orders where you want, as close to the current price as you want.

In my opinion, Armada was great when they were using LMAX (and only LMAX). They had the exact same prices as LMAX, and it was quite the same as using LMAX MT4, but with a higher leverage (x500 instead of x100 for LMAX). Now, I left Armada when they began to add "additionnal LPs" and I had the sensation to see some little prices manipulation. The day I left is when I had a big position opened and they raised the swap rate like crazy the evening I kept this position open, and lowered it again the day after I closed it). When asking support about it, it really gave me the impression to hear the same BS as some bad market maker I had troubles with in the past. Things like: "It's not us, it's our LPs" When you ask who this is, as when I opened my account all trades were supposed to be hedged on LMAX, it was "Biggest banks" without any further detail. "Rates went up on the intermarket, nothing to do with your trades" ... Yeah, I have access to LMAX swap rates and to EBS (=interbank) rates, and it was 100% BS. So I would advise to beware with Armada. They were great at the beginning, but worried me after their "upgrade" to more "liquidity sources". I asked myself if they didn't become a pure bucket shop with all the good old tactics ...

To be 100% fair about Armada, I received my money VERY fast after asking for withdrawal, and after an email, I have been refunded of the high swap I paid, which I could withdraw with no problem at all. So that was really correct and nice. (I had complained about the swap raise before closing the trades, but emailed to say that as expected swap returned to normal the day after I closed them, and they compensated all the paid swap). I have since a while a policy to leave a broker at the first wrong or suspect behaviour, because in the past I lost a lot of time and money when I have been robbed by a broker where it was damn obvious they were a scam, and I was stupid enough to continue to trade with them ...
  • #13
  • Mar 21, 2013 12:55pm Mar 21, 2013 12:55pm
Quoting Mevo
Hi. Just be aware that what you write about Armada is correct, your pending orders are NOT written in the order book of LMAX, so nobody can see them and "take" them. You have to wait until the best bid/ask matches our order for it to be triggered, so you can't PROVIDE LIQUIDITY, only TAKE LIQUIDITY, and you can NOT "earn" the spread, only pay it. BUT (and that's the point I want you to know) I have been told that METATRADER-4 can *ONLY* work this way. So *ANY* broker proposing Currenex or any other network with MT4 will (as I have been told)...
Thanks for the info. since checking this thread I have also been in touch with LMAX and fastbrokers. Both LMAX and fastbrokers (IB for LMAX) confirm that the orders you place actually go into the book. fastbrokers tell me min deposit $2500 so they could work well for me. This whole issue is a bit of a mare as 95% of people involved in this industry including many 'broker's dont even know what it means to provide liquidity. MT4 and bridge's are dog dirt, not for price makers. love MT4 for free charting though, great simplicity that works.

It's crazy how any 2 bob broker can take a price feed of a real ECN then act as a dealer of the feed and call themselves an ECN, complete joke and should be illegal. they say 'we are an ECN broker' but what they mean is 'we use an ECN broker for our prices but are market makers/dealers so watch out as we will shaft you if you let us' lol
  • #14
  • Mar 21, 2013 12:56pm Mar 21, 2013 12:56pm
Quoting Mevo
LMAX is probably the best "retail" broker you can trade with (Unless you have mini 50K and go with Currenex, HotSpot, Ebs ...). It's a real marketplace, where there is an order book, and every single trade (including yours) are in that order book. Everybody has full access to it. As described earlier, this enables you to buy at the BID if someone takes your trade (you earn the spread which is paid by the person taking your trade), which is impossible with quite every other retail broker as you will only buy from a LP (liquidity provider) at the...
hi mevo,sad to hear things thats not so positive abt armada.when u mentioned u did a withdrawal,u received your monies thru which method? so,do u think that or advise someone to open acct with armada?
  • #15
  • Mar 21, 2013 1:02pm Mar 21, 2013 1:02pm
Quoting shrike
Currenex pricing and liquidity is different with each broker. It can be configured how ever the broker in questions wants it to. The low deposit Currenex brokers will have just the LPs they have a relationship with and their client's orders in the system. So the overall quality of the product will vary greatly from firm to firm.

However, brokers have an option to add a service called "FxTrades" to their currenex hub. This adds additional liquidity and client order flow not only from their own LPs, but form a whole lot of other firms who participate...
thanks that is good info. yeah I realised currenex have a number of different feeds depending on which LP's they throw in and what flow they get, at present it looks like I need to use LMAX or currenex but I need to make sure my order hit the market. it's so easy to check anyhow just dial up a pair and put in a bid off the mark and see if it appears, removing it quickly in case it is hit.
  • #16
  • Mar 21, 2013 1:11pm Mar 21, 2013 1:11pm
Quoting Mevo
LMAX is probably the best "retail" broker you can trade with (Unless you have mini 50K and go with Currenex, HotSpot, Ebs ...). It's a real marketplace, where there is an order book, and every single trade (including yours) are in that order book. Everybody has full access to it. As described earlier, this enables you to buy at the BID if someone takes your trade (you earn the spread which is paid by the person taking your trade), which is impossible with quite every other retail broker as you will only buy from a LP (liquidity provider) at the...
Hey Mevo

I think you are right in the LMAX is probably my best starting point for price making strats. I hear what you say about Armada, they are not suitable for my strats as they are not an ECN they only use ECN pricing which is ok for price takers (99% of retail traders). I did take a look at their feed and noticed that their spread was slightly wider on some exotics I watch, I questioned them on this as I explained if they were using LMAX and adding other LPs the spread could only narrow not widen - I hit the same BS you are describing. as you well know forex is a dirty business and we are dealing with shades of grey here, some are dark grey, others are lighter, nobody is pure white if you get me.

thanks for your input.
  • #17
  • Mar 21, 2013 1:11pm Mar 21, 2013 1:11pm
Quoting Mevo
Yes and no: Currenex is currenex, period. But it's correct that a markup can be added to best bid/offer enabling a broker to propose Currenex without a comission (paid by the markup, widening a little bit the spread). But this isn't what the guy who asked the question wants, because if there's a markup, no pending order will be routed directly to currenex, but held by the broker and triggered when directly marketable. And that's exactly what he does NOT want (according to what I understood he wants to do)

And about liquidity: Currenex liquidity...
Not really. If your theory would be correct, Alpari, FXDD and LCG would display the same prices/liquidity on their Currenex, but that is decidedly not the case.
  • #18
  • Mar 21, 2013 1:14pm Mar 21, 2013 1:14pm
(Please note that I'm not affiliated to Alpha Novae at all)

Fxking: I would advise people to go directly with LMAX. Through Alpha NOVAE, you can open LMAX accounts with a minimum of $1000, and have a UK quite big and known broker with FSA regulation instead of a small eastern Europe company with unknown regulation. sh5467 says that you can have a $2500 mini with fastBrokers too (I don't know them). I opened my account with a small deposit through Alpha novae personnally. Only thing is a leverage of "only" x100 instead of x500 for armada. I wouldn't advise anybody to NOT go with Armada. Until now, I didn't hear/read anything really BAD about them. You know my experience and have my opinion.

sh5467: Correct, what "providing liquidity" is isn't understood by many traders and many brokers ... Yes, I can confirm you too that every trade goes in the book on LMAX and you can access the order book. What I felt when trying to provide some liquidity on LMAX is that there are not that many people trading on it (at least less that I expected, especially on exotics, so your trades won't be taken that often ;( If you want to search on this, have a look at Dukascopy as your trades on LMAX are only available to LMAX customers (and eventually broker's customers that use LMAX as LP), but Dukascopy seems to place your orders on different networks like Currenex, Hotspot and others and cancel them as soon as the quantity you wanted to trade has been filled, so you may have more chances of having your trades filled on Dukascopy than on LMAX.

I didn't know of FastBrokers... As stated Alpha Novae allows you to open LMAX accounts with $1000
  • #19
  • Mar 21, 2013 1:23pm Mar 21, 2013 1:23pm
Quoting Mevo
About LMAX's minimum deposit, it is possible to open an account with them with only $1000 if you open it through some IBs, check "Alpha Novae".
called LMAX up to check, you are a genius SIR thank you very much. $1000 min account access to LMAX exchange.
  • #20
  • Mar 21, 2013 1:25pm Mar 21, 2013 1:25pm
Quoting shrike
Not really. If your theory would be correct, Alpari, FXDD and LCG would display the same prices/liquidity on their Currenex, but that is decidedly not the case.
Oh that's interesting ... Currenex is a marketplace with it's own orderbook like Hotspot or EBS (or LMAX), so how can that be ??? If you have 1 million, you can open an account directly with Currenex. Or starting at 50K you can trade with a PrimeBroker which gives you access to Currenex or other networks ... LCG is a PrimeBroker if I'm not wrong, so this should be the "real" Currenex.

Is it possible that Alpari and FXDD use the Currenex orderbook, but adds pending orders from its customers only "locally" and not directly into Currenex orderbook. So it mean that Alpari and Fxdd customers (currenex) have their orders put in the orderbook, but these orders could only be hit by other Alpari or fxdd other customers ? This could explain what you describe. If you go with a PrimeBroker like LCG, Baxter, Marex, your orders are supposed to be entered in Currenex orderbook and can be hit by every other trader on Currenex.
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