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  • #2,101
  • Feb 20, 2013 2:13pm Feb 20, 2013 2:13pm
Quoting jeuro
The higher we get in the forex trading scale, the more we see this. For some reason we do not seems
to understand that NO ONE has "inventory" of the currency we want to buy at the moment we place an order
and all depends of how much is placed for sale at the same time.
All the more reason to trade with on-exchange liquidity (LMAX, CME, etc) and avoid such nonsense..
  • #2,102
  • Feb 20, 2013 4:06pm Feb 20, 2013 4:06pm
Quoting Trader KGB
All the more reason to trade with on-exchange liquidity (LMAX, CME, etc) and avoid such nonsense..
.. makes no difference. The point was if NO ONE want to sell at the price we want to buy or NO ONE want to buy what we place in the market,
at the price we want... thats it.

Does not matter. LPs, LMAX, CME etc, do not have currency inventory like everybody else, nor they keep it for more then a few millisecond if they get
it from a direct order. Not even the majors do, like DB, Citi, Barclay, etc. They just "quote" prices...and they fill order "only" if they can make a a few bucks.

J.
  • #2,103
  • Feb 20, 2013 4:12pm Feb 20, 2013 4:12pm
Quoting jeuro
Does not matter. LPs, LMAX, CME etc, do not have currency inventory like everybody else, nor they keep it for more then a few millisecond if they get
it from a direct order.
And that is where you are wrong, exchanges and MTFs like CME or LMAX have an orderbook with resting liquidity that can be directly hit... if the the size is quoted by the time your order arrives, you will get filled, no ifs, ands or buts. That is the difference between exchanges/mtfs and liquidity providers with last look provision.
I'm not insane; my mother had me tested.
  • #2,104
  • Feb 20, 2013 5:02pm Feb 20, 2013 5:02pm
Quoting RoBiK
exchanges and MTFs like CME or LMAX have an orderbook with resting liquidity that can be directly hit... if the the size is quoted by the time your order arrives, you will get filled, no ifs, ands or buts. That is the difference between exchanges/mtfs and liquidity providers with last look provision.
Exactly.

Quoting jeuro
CME etc, do not have currency inventory like everybody else.
Funny, all of the hedge funds and CTAs that trade at the CME don't seem to complain about any "lack of inventory". I don't think Joe Retail Trader will have any issue..
  • #2,105
  • Feb 20, 2013 5:06pm Feb 20, 2013 5:06pm
Rather than rejections, i'm more curious about why Dukas would change a stop order to a limit order.. that sounds really weird.
  • #2,106
  • Feb 21, 2013 3:13am Feb 21, 2013 3:13am
Quoting jeuro
The market it is this way... a lot more times then we think there is no liquidity. But most market makers
take your order anyway. Usually grabbing someone else stops (sometimes could be us). Slip the order
to some other price, and/or slip all the following order to unwind their take.

In short, it seems Dukas is more prompt to just reject the order instead of playing around with it.

Obviously, order size and time has a lot to do with it. If you were trying to trade the GBP news today
the market was thin for those pairs during the spike.

The...
Hi Jeuro,

i don't expect to be filled a the exact price i asked for. That's why i place a slippage limit that at this point is between 1 pip and 1,5 pips (yes, it's BIG). I just simply don't believe that there is no liquidity in the market for a few lots in a 1,5 pip area in major pairs.

And i'm not talking on big news releases or data releases time.

It wouldn't be playing w/ the order. If i give a stop order w/ a 1 pip slippage, when that orders gets triggered and sent as a market order it has all that lenght of depth to be filled. Yesterday, on my friends account i saw one of his orders on non-major pair - but still big - not getting filled and the market flirted around his order for several seconds.

It then became a limit order....!!

With that said, happening once or twice a week or month i could understand, but several times a day: no, there is something wrong here. it is not the end of story. There is something that just does not add up.
  • #2,107
  • Feb 21, 2013 3:18am Feb 21, 2013 3:18am
Quoting shrike
"They keep rejecting multiple stop orders, replacing them w/ limit orders"

They really do this? A stop should always execute, once it is triggered - there may be slippage, but it should not be canceled or replaced with a limit (that has by definition no execution certainty). This would defeat the purpose of a stop and sounds rather dangerous.
Hi,

yes they really do. Constantly. Stop orders are getting harder and harder to be filled.

What it is "funny" is that all limit orders get filled: with no exception.

It becames impossible to set "fire and forget" orders, because we are always worried if a stop order will not get filled, the market moves and the order gets filled on the retracement - which has happened to not being a retracement but a reversal, and then the subsequent loss occures...
  • #2,108
  • Feb 21, 2013 3:33am Feb 21, 2013 3:33am
Quoting Polkm
... That's why i place a slippage limit that at this point is between 1 pip and 1,5 pips (yes, it's BIG)...
Would you mind indicating whether this was 7, 8 or 9 figures of BIG please?
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #2,109
  • Feb 21, 2013 3:42am Feb 21, 2013 3:42am
I took a screenshot of the DOM on EU randomly.

I just can't see where a few lots would not be able to find liquidity to get filled, using a minimum 1 pip slippage.

That market structure is almost complete. Very few gaps!

No how on Earth am i going to increase my deposits and start trading large positions (for a retail trader as myself ) if even these relatively small ones get trashed. My trust in them is fading away rapidly...

(and that statement that they can have a counterparty position against us just keeps popping up on my mind...)
Attached Image
  • #2,110
  • Feb 21, 2013 3:44am Feb 21, 2013 3:44am
Quoting Exodus
Would you mind indicating whether this was 7, 8 or 9 figures of BIG please?
sorry, didn't quiet understand your question (the figures being the lot size?).

What I meant by Big is the slippage settings: for me 1 pip slippage is large room for maneoveur.
  • #2,111
  • Feb 21, 2013 5:42am Feb 21, 2013 5:42am
Quoting Polkm
sorry, didn't quiet understand your question (the figures being the lot size?).

What I meant by Big is the slippage settings: for me 1 pip slippage is large room for maneoveur.
Sorry, I was talking actual amounts not lot numbers. So 7 figures is a million up, 8 figures is 10 million up, and so on.
I agree that it should be possible to fill 3 or 4 lots with no problem on 1.5 pip slippage.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #2,112
  • Feb 21, 2013 12:42pm Feb 21, 2013 12:42pm
Quoting Exodus
Sorry, I was talking actual amounts not lot numbers. So 7 figures is a million up, 8 figures is 10 million up, and so on.
I agree that it should be possible to fill 3 or 4 lots with no problem on 1.5 pip slippage.http://50.22.104.143/~forum/images/b...-highlight.gif
Well I have no trouble trading this kind of volume with a non-ecn metatrader4.... so jforex should be able to handle it without worries... (i hope so)
If you aim for the stars- but miss, you still get the moon...
  • #2,113
  • Feb 22, 2013 5:55am Feb 22, 2013 5:55am
dukas is crap market maker; and not an ECN.

the fact they lie about this is a big problem. do you trust them?

I see no difference between Oanda and Dukas in terms of execution.

Oanda is honest about their business model (Market maker); and Dukas is NOT.

if you are still trading with Dukas; pack your bags and look somewhere else
  • #2,114
  • Feb 22, 2013 7:24am Feb 22, 2013 7:24am
So which broker do you suggest instead of Duka with the same conditions for ECN and large investments? Because you also know that they have bank license in Switzerland.
Quoting mattg
dukas is crap market maker; and not an ECN.

the fact they lie about this is a big problem. do you trust them?

I see no difference between Oanda and Dukas in terms of execution.

Oanda is honest about their business model (Market maker); and Dukas is NOT.

if you are still trading with Dukas; pack your bags and look somewhere else
  • #2,115
  • Feb 22, 2013 8:43am Feb 22, 2013 8:43am
Quoting mattg
dukas is crap market maker; and not an ECN.

the fact they lie about this is a big problem. do you trust them?

I see no difference between Oanda and Dukas in terms of execution.

Oanda is honest about their business model (Market maker); and Dukas is NOT.

if you are still trading with Dukas; pack your bags and look somewhere else
I closed my Duka account due to downsizing my forex trading, but I would happily go back to them.
I never had a problem with order processing, the largest order I placed was 250,000.
I never saw any evidence that Duka is an MM, and I have traded with some MMs that have obviously played a few tricks.

I now have an OandA account, I cannot hedge the same instrument, but otherwise I am happy.
Duka fees plus spread are slighly more than OandA's spread by about 0.2 pip (2 tenths).

...maybe you were writing about Duka's Euro operation, that has to be an MM since it accepts micro-lot trading.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #2,116
  • Feb 22, 2013 9:07am Feb 22, 2013 9:07am
Quoting May
So which broker do you suggest instead of Duka with the same conditions for ECN and large investments? Because you also know that they have bank license in Switzerland.
Big players:
LMAX, Currenex, Hotspot

Small players (proxy for the big players above):
Armada, IC Markets, FXOpen
  • #2,117
  • Feb 22, 2013 9:18am Feb 22, 2013 9:18am
Its sad that some people did not get sued because of defamations and unproven accusations..
How to opt out annoying user signatures ??
  • #2,118
  • Feb 22, 2013 10:26am Feb 22, 2013 10:26am
.

Traders dump Brokers for some estrange reasons sometimes.
There is a lot of misunderstanding in terminology. ECN, Market Market, etc.

Every major Bank is a Market Maker. DB, Citi, Barclay, UBS, etc.
And also all "connected" to the ECN. ..so, being and "ECN" broker has some 10
different definitions.


Lmax, Currenex,..etc are fine too, but all have their own glitches.
Somewhere in the exchanging chain did some MM before we purchased.
Funny to think that outfits such as Lmax or othe similar also may place client
orders with Dukas from time to time. This forex is a big happy family and all
conected in some manner.

Bottom line is how much are you trading with.

Dukas has the highest guarantee of funds by a Compensatory Fund for a professional trader.
So. If the institution we trade with mess up and go belly up, in some cases you could lose everything
specially if the institution is in the USA.

J.
  • #2,119
  • Feb 22, 2013 10:30am Feb 22, 2013 10:30am
lmax placing trades with duaks from time to time? Ok...
  • #2,120
  • Feb 22, 2013 10:40am Feb 22, 2013 10:40am
Quoting mattg
Big players:
LMAX, Currenex, Hotspot

Small players (proxy for the big players above):
Armada, IC Markets, FXOpen
FXOpen? Seriously?
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