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"Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade." Summary 37 replies

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Ratios & Harmonics: a Different Way to Trade

  • #3,041
  • Feb 20, 2013 1:54am Feb 20, 2013 1:54am
Quoting foxybunny
Now you can add another Fib line on BC for your EUR/GBP.

You will then see if the BC fib of 127% or 162% or something else, that will also be close to your original PRZ(AB's 127% - 138%) that you have drawn.

This is the confluence factor of how BC's extension relates to AB's extension.
Yes that extra fib line from BC for extra confluence seems strange to me. 90% of the time it shows extra confluence, not the greatest way to filter trades when it's always lining up. Thats why I haven't been including it on charts. Will keep playing with it though to see what happens.
  • #3,042
  • Feb 20, 2013 1:58am Feb 20, 2013 1:58am
Quoting itinerant
Regarding the earlier discussion about pending orders...

In the brief time that I've been trading this style, pending orders have caused far more loss than profit for me.

It is frustrating to come back and see I missed an entry by a couple of minutes, wishing I had set a pending order.

But too often I've come back and seen that a pending order was filled in my absence as the price shot straight through the PRZ... with such obvious price action negating the PRZ that I never would have entered the trade manually.

Just my $0.02
Actually I'm starting to feel the same way too - but I was thinking maybe it was just me reading into price action with 20/20 hindsight vision. Also I was hoping to have a set and forget style of trading, less stress. Might try watching price action more and use less pending orders.
  • #3,043
  • Edited 2:31am Feb 20, 2013 1:58am | Edited 2:31am
using fib retracements as structure estimates.... just an interesting observation, the confluence of retracements from two high to lows along with support/resistance as a hint on which zone to pick, can be used as structure, and corresponds nicely to structure you would otherwise draw... not necessarily one structure, but cool

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  • #3,044
  • Feb 20, 2013 5:16am Feb 20, 2013 5:16am
A nice ABCD playing out on the EUR/CHF 5 min. I watched it unfold but didn't get in on the trade. Came down to touch the 127 of PRZ and bounce back, target 1 already reached - moving towards target 2.
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  • #3,045
  • Feb 20, 2013 5:40am Feb 20, 2013 5:40am
Question for anyone who is succeeding with aggressive C Cell trades....

Are you getting into a trade as soon as a valid C Cell setup occurs (close in-between 61.8 and 78.6) no matter what. Or are you watching PA in that zone and basing your decision on that? And if so, what exactly are you looking for?

... I still can't wrap my head around the "with order flow part"...
  • #3,046
  • Feb 20, 2013 6:30am Feb 20, 2013 6:30am
Quoting nomadic123
Question for anyone who is succeeding with aggressive C Cell trades....

Are you getting into a trade as soon as a valid C Cell setup occurs (close in-between 61.8 and 78.6) no matter what. Or are you watching PA in that zone and basing your decision on that? And if so, what exactly are you looking for?
The first couple of weeks I was very happy with the results of trading Aggressive C. However, this week has been abysmal.

During this brief period of maybe 3-4 weeks, I have learnt that blindly entering at 61.8 / 78.6 has burnt me more times than it rewarded me.

I had more success by:
1. Dropping down a time frame to watch price action; or
2. Waiting for a more positive reversal and accepting that I'll take less pips from the trade

I also only take aggressive C's if there are additional clues beyond a simple retracement (such as support or resistance, other patterns etc)
  • #3,047
  • Feb 20, 2013 6:49am Feb 20, 2013 6:49am
Quoting nomadic123
... I still can't wrap my head around the "with order flow part"...
This is my understanding of it:
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  • #3,048
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:13am Feb 20, 2013 7:13am
Quoting nomadic123
A nice ABCD playing out on the EUR/CHF 5 min. I watched it unfold but didn't get in on the trade. Came down to touch the 127 of PRZ and bounce back, target 1 already reached - moving towards target 2.
Second target reached....
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  • #3,049
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:17am Feb 20, 2013 7:17am
Quoting itinerant
This is my understanding of it:
Ohh so you view it more as overall trend. Interesting - makes more sense that way. I thought it was to do with the last previous few candles.

Quoting itinerant
The first couple of weeks I was very happy with the results of trading Aggressive C. However, this week has been abysmal.

During this brief period of maybe 3-4 weeks, I have learnt that blindly entering at 61.8 / 78.6 has burnt me more times than it rewarded me.

I had more success by:
1. Dropping down a time frame to watch price action; or
2. Waiting for a more positive reversal and accepting that I'll take less pips from the trade

I also only take aggressive C's if there are additional clues beyond a simple retracement (such as support...
Thanks for the insight. Will take it on board.
  • #3,050
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:19am Feb 20, 2013 7:19am
Quoting nomadic123
Second target reached....
Interesting, I just took a short...
  • #3,051
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:25am Feb 20, 2013 7:25am
Quoting CNTrader
Here is what I'm looking at on a 1hr chart for Eur/Nzd

Target 1 attained.
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Don't follow me! You can and most likely will LOSE all your money!!!!
  • #3,052
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:30am Feb 20, 2013 7:30am
Quoting Starry
this isnt trading support/resistance, this is looking at how price reacts around important support resistance (formed by the previous trend). see chart, i guess i didnt explain it before .....

i mean, i dont see how you could do anything else except how price moves around the support/resistance lines before it reaches the prz that you want to trade. if the candles hint it might be gaining strength upward, then that should add some confidence .....

ill be interested in what mr pip has to say...

I didnt trade today but thats how im trying to...
I hear you Starry but that price action looks like how a normal correction would look to me anyways. Thats why my question is a bit deeper. Whats the tip off to reverse and not reverse into an agressive C or pattern in the opposite direction. Mr. Pip has hinted a few times about introducing how to handle the 38% retracement in a strong trend and I would love to know what to look for.

I mean after the fact its like ya sure look at that bull spike obviously you shouldn't be trading against that strength but we do it quite often in the prz (the last leg in a correction is often impulsive). If its just discression and screen time thats cool I've been at this 7 years so no big deal but if theres something I'm missing I'd love to learn. Cheers.
Finally out of the shadows.
  • #3,053
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:32am Feb 20, 2013 7:32am
N/U ABCD pattern
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  • #3,054
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:32am Feb 20, 2013 7:32am
Quoting nomadic123
Ohh so you view it more as overall trend. Interesting - makes more sense that way. I thought it was to do with the last previous few candles.
This was a post buried in the thread history:
Quoting Mr. Pip
Yes order flow is the trend. What you want to see is price deceleration as its coming into a PRZ. You definitely do not want to see acceleration of price. You also want to see price behavior and get a price action confirmation before you enter. I only enter blindly when there is lots of confluence or when I'm not there particularly on the larger time frames when a pattern is going to complete and I might not be there to take the trade but I do not trade the higher timeframe a anymore and don't take trades blindly anymore. Not because of performance...
  • #3,055
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:33am Feb 20, 2013 7:33am
Quoting itinerant
Interesting, I just took a short...
Was that as per harmonics rules from this thread or another system? If it was from this method/system would you mind posting chart with quick analysis? I dont see the short setup.
  • #3,056
  • Feb 20, 2013 7:36am Feb 20, 2013 7:36am
Quoting itinerant
This was a post buried in the thread history:
Ah great. Thanks for digging that out for me.
  • #3,057
  • Feb 20, 2013 8:13am Feb 20, 2013 8:13am
Quoting nomadic123
Was that as per harmonics rules from this thread or another system? If it was from this method/system would you mind posting chart with quick analysis? I dont see the short setup.
Probably because it was flawed - I got stopped out at break even

The first chart was my logic for entering, and how the trade panned out.

The second chart is why I believe the trade failed.

BE is better than a loss, and I'm slightly wiser as a result
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  • #3,058
  • Feb 20, 2013 10:17am Feb 20, 2013 10:17am
Hey Traders. Here's what I saw today:

Didn't repeat yesterdays mistake and looked at the 15 min to see what was up with the new swing yesterday that had me confused. Turns out that price was near the 68% of that swing and we had almost finished with an abcd in a prz with a final flag forming.

I waited for the over shoot of the second leg (Another lesson from yesterday and practice) and saw the failure of the final flag. Took the ride up to the 68% where an ib formed took the ride down with order flow which stopped @ the bull bar in the 68% zone of the up swing. So now long with stop below the 88% (Thanks FoxyBunny) and up to double pin structure. I was confused here but having reached some great R:Rs I stopped for the day. So either a really lucky day or some of Mr. Pip's teaching is sinking in.

I guess order flow won as its trying to complete another abcd or BO as I write this. Hope you are all improving your trading and
R:R. Cheers.
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Finally out of the shadows.
  • #3,059
  • Edited 11:17am Feb 20, 2013 10:59am | Edited 11:17am
Quoting gaf
Hey Traders. Here's what I saw today:

Didn't repeat yesterdays mistake and looked at the 15 min to see what was up with the new swing yesterday that had me confused. Turns out that price was near the 68% of that swing and we had almost finished with an abcd in a prz with a final flag forming.

I waited for the over shoot of the second leg (Another lesson from yesterday and practice) and saw the failure of the final flag. Took the ride up to the 68% where an ib formed took the ride down with order flow which stopped @ the bull bar in the 68%...
congrats! definitely, mr pip's teachings are sinking in, ive looked at his charts and this exactly how he trades though actually there was a harmonic reason to wait for it to overshoot, it wasnt really overshoot. didnt catch it because i fell asleep after closing the trade without the overshoot
  • #3,060
  • Feb 20, 2013 11:20am Feb 20, 2013 11:20am
Quoting itinerant
The first couple of weeks I was very happy with the results of trading Aggressive C. However, this week has been abysmal.

During this brief period of maybe 3-4 weeks, I have learnt that blindly entering at 61.8 / 78.6 has burnt me more times than it rewarded me.

I had more success by:
1. Dropping down a time frame to watch price action; or
2. Waiting for a more positive reversal and accepting that I'll take less pips from the trade

I also only take aggressive C's if there are additional clues beyond a simple retracement (such as support...
Itinerant,
Yes, this week has been brutal, market just not moving favorably for aggressive C's. I did not trade Monday due to holiday, and barely traded yesterday. Today has also been difficult. Main reason is retraces are only going 38.2 to 50.0% rather than 61.8%. The result is counter-trend (aka long, generally speaking) trades fail while with trend (short) do not retrace sufficiently.

I have not posted my results but will today. They are not pretty, but that is part of the game. Given I trade EURUSD, I limit the possibilities and can get stuck in market movement like this. Either grind through it, or hold off, or trade different time frames.

Good luck!
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