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  • #741
  • Feb 16, 2013 1:32am Feb 16, 2013 1:32am
Quoting 2ii2c
You people are unbelievable.
Look back at threads
2ii2c

2ii2c, your post was an absolute waste of reader's time.
Never Trade without a defined risk, never, never, never.
  • #742
  • Feb 16, 2013 7:50am Feb 16, 2013 7:50am
Hi SP and all

ditto to hubbys post. Avid silent follower/learner of this thread but very Keen for it to continue. I'm sure I'm not the only silent follower but like the man said, if we ain't got nothing to contribute then we wont say anything.
'Vouches'! Aren't they for the ego? I don't believe you want ego to play a part in trading. For what I have learnt in my measly 2 years in trying to learn this game is ego can be your down fall.

Any way back to studying....
  • #743
  • Feb 16, 2013 9:45am Feb 16, 2013 9:45am
Quoting pipreeper
Hi SP and all

ditto to hubbys post. Avid silent follower/learner of this thread but very Keen for it to continue. I'm sure I'm not the only silent follower but like the man said, if we ain't got nothing to contribute then we wont say anything.
'Vouches'! Aren't they for the ego? I don't believe you want ego to play a part in trading. For what I have learnt in my measly 2 years in trying to learn this game is ego can be your down fall.

Any way back to studying....
One of the biggest hurdles to overcome in learning to trade is that our ego is often tied to the success or failure of an individual trade. We humans are wired to fear failure and avoid it at all cost. Trading is almost completely about failing well. Most methods, even the most profitable ones, lose almost as often as they win. We exploit smallish edges through the use of good money management to earn profits. The desire to eliminate losers from a method has been the death of a few good "systems" on Forex Factory.
  • #744
  • Feb 16, 2013 10:03am Feb 16, 2013 10:03am
Quoting Seneca pilot
One of the biggest hurdles to overcome in learning to trade is that our ego is often tied to the success or failure of an individual trade. We humans are wired to fear failure and avoid it at all cost. Trading is almost completely about failing well. Most methods, even the most profitable ones, lose almost as often as they win. We exploit smallish edges through the use of good money management to earn profits. The desire to eliminate losers from a method has been the death of a few good "systems" on Forex Factory.
I'm not sure who said it but one of my favorite quotes is that "most people are more interested than winning than making money." I'll be glad to help them 'win' as long as their money is being transferred into my bank account.
  • #745
  • Feb 16, 2013 3:29pm Feb 16, 2013 3:29pm
Quoting Seneca pilot
One of the biggest hurdles to overcome in learning to trade is that our ego is often tied to the success or failure of an individual trade. We humans are wired to fear failure and avoid it at all cost. Trading is almost completely about failing well. Most methods, even the most profitable ones, lose almost as often as they win. We exploit smallish edges through the use of good money management to earn profits. The desire to eliminate losers from a method has been the death of a few good "systems" on Forex Factory.
Firstly thanks Seneca Pilot for an excellent thread. People like you are the true educators in this field. Was only a matter of time before some of the recent negative posters or flamers appeared. I do not need others to make a judgement call about your intentions, mate I am old enough to make that decision myself! I subscribed a long time ago.

"Trading is almost completely about failing well." Took me a long time to truly understand the full implications and meaning of this. TBH, dealing with and avoiding losses is a such a big issue that I still find myself battling with the emotional side of it. I like your previous advice about doing drills to gain more objectivity and discipline in how we react during trading. The fact is the human mind deals with wins and losses in different parts of the brain. Losses can impact us up to three times more than a win. "Failing well" as you put it succinctly is just not part of our genetic makeup for most of us. For me that meant revenge trading in my early days. You have a loss and you need to get into another trade immediately to "revenge" that loss. Usually meant getting into another loser.......

Then I had my "avoid losers at all costs" period when I would invariably move my SL when a trade regressed towards it. Yep, that just compounded my losses further. And wins can be just as bad. String a few of them together and it usually leads to overtrading driven by plain old greed. As you have clearly shown with this thread, the mechanical aspects of trading need not be complex to be successful. But the emotional aspects of trading, well that is very much more complex and essentially, very much an individual thing. Thanks again for your efforts with this thread. I am sure I speak for the silent majority who like me are lurkers not posters.
Audentes Fortuna Juvat
  • #746
  • Feb 16, 2013 3:47pm Feb 16, 2013 3:47pm
Hey guys, new here at ForexFactory.. moving on from BabyPips as there is way too much drama, fraud, & trader's that cannot turn a profit. Can you guys point me in the right direction in terms of finding an honest, reputable mentor?

What are some of the good threads and mentors here that have helped you the most as a trader? I want to further my education as much as possible

Thanks in advance!
  • #747
  • Feb 16, 2013 5:18pm Feb 16, 2013 5:18pm
Dear SP,

Thank you for your kind remarks and also to one or two of the other folks.

You have always been a mensch to me and to everyone on your thread.
(Notwithstanding your last comment wherein you impugned my profitability.)
Therefore, I have decided to leave you with a parting gift.

The attached equity curve is the results for a few months of your ORB (opening range breakout). As you know, it is a very old strategy and came over on the Mayflower shortly after the Dutch Tulip Bulb bubble. You were very perspicacious to spot it's efficacy relative to the London open.

You will recall I also coded and posted your London Close significant level and also one of my special treasures. This ORB is the same, totally mechanical and no discretion. It's not that hard to skin the FX cat yet thousands struggle. Maybe this will motivate some folks to stay up late.

The 50 vouch thing was a joke (very wry but still a joke), the harsh remarks were a wake up call via ice water (see below), and sadly some of my pearls of wisdom went over most folks' heads or through both ears. It is such a burden to frequently be misunderstood or not understood. Sometimes a high IQ can be a burden. An effective communicator will always adjust to suit the audience. See, I could have said that in a harsher way.

I once invited some local traders over to talk trading. I finally realized the way to drive the lesson home was to unexpectedly shout at the top of my lungs, "THERE IS NO RESISTANCE IN A SPIKING UP TREND AND NO SUPPORT IN A PLUMMETING DOWN TREND!!!!".
They jumped out of their skins. I said, "Notice how your hearts are pounding? That's what it's like to keep HOPING for a reversal while your account is blowing up. It is much better to take the hit and fight another day". I think they got it.

As to "a total waste of the reader's time" and "the negative posters and flamers", I rest my case about the "misunderstood" and the "IQ" things.

Finally, there are more things to the parting gift. You will also receive a year supply of ALPO dog food, the American Tourister Luggage, and three days in fabulous Encinada, Mexico!!!

You do know my name and the location of my HQ...Have you googled me yet?
Please feel free to contact me anytime off of FF. I closed my account but you do have my private email.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ORB_London.png Size: 134 KB
  • #748
  • Feb 16, 2013 7:26pm Feb 16, 2013 7:26pm
Quoting slug
Hey guys, new here at ForexFactory.. moving on from BabyPips as there is way too much drama, fraud, & trader's that cannot turn a profit. Can you guys point me in the right direction in terms of finding an honest, reputable mentor?

What are some of the good threads and mentors here that have helped you the most as a trader? I want to further my education as much as possible

Thanks in advance!
In the first few posts of this thread, SP mentions some of the FF posters that he feels knows their stuff. Read only from them. He gave a great short list. i have my favorites and one being commercial wasn't mentioned. I'll respect SP's wishes and not mention that one here. Although he gives all in his free thread.
  • #749
  • Feb 16, 2013 7:32pm Feb 16, 2013 7:32pm
'two eyes to see' - you get the prize for biggest drama queen on the thread.

your post is wrong on so many levels. you accuse SP of trying to win favour when he's just here to give somethingg back. you say his work here is counter to independent learning when in fact posters are stating the opposite.

your main point in both of your last posts has actually been about yourself and your great trading methods. thanks for dangling another carrot and sending people off on wild goose chases. very helpful. not. SP has told it as it is. you have offered not wisdom but self aggrandizement and a pathetic series of 'I'm better than you' shots. there is nothing we are missing from you and how arrogant for you to suggest so. put your thesaurus back on the shelf where no doubt it will be gathering dust once more until you need to impress some other 'poor fools'.

if you think so little of people here then best to stay away. shouting at someone may make them listen for a minute but if you teach them they will listen for a lifetime. bye bye.
  • #750
  • Feb 16, 2013 7:38pm Feb 16, 2013 7:38pm
Quoting slug
Hey guys, new here at ForexFactory.. moving on from BabyPips as there is way too much drama, fraud, & trader's that cannot turn a profit. Can you guys point me in the right direction in terms of finding an honest, reputable mentor?

What are some of the good threads and mentors here that have helped you the most as a trader? I want to further my education as much as possible

Thanks in advance!
Mature attitude but completely wrong thread for this question. Try a search or starting your own thread and wait for advice.
  • #751
  • Feb 16, 2013 8:09pm Feb 16, 2013 8:09pm
Quoting 2ii2c
Dear SP,

Thank you for your kind remarks and also to one or two of the other folks.

You have always been a mensch to me and to everyone on your thread.
(Notwithstanding your last comment wherein you impugned my profitability.)
Therefore, I have decided to leave you with a parting gift.

The attached equity curve is the results for a few months of your ORB (opening range breakout). As you know, it is a very old strategy and came over on the Mayflower shortly after the Dutch Tulip Bulb bubble. You were very perspicacious to spot it's efficacy...
I guess I am one of the other folks? as I kept my response somewhat neutral for a reason.
I suspected there was more to that post than what what
was presented.

You definitely have a bigger IQ than me. Just an old cowboy here. I like the psychology thing though. Always been interested in how folks think and why.

Haven't googled you yet.
  • #752
  • Feb 16, 2013 8:19pm Feb 16, 2013 8:19pm
Quoting slug
Hey guys, new here at ForexFactory.. moving on from BabyPips as there is way too much drama, fraud, & trader's that cannot turn a profit. Can you guys point me in the right direction in terms of finding an honest, reputable mentor?

What are some of the good threads and mentors here that have helped you the most as a trader? I want to further my education as much as possible

Thanks in advance!
Use the search function at the top of the page. Read everything posted by Peter Crowns, The Real Thing, and Jack Larkin. Then you need to decide how you want to trade. I would say you could do worse than the methods I have described in this thread. If you want a very short term method go to the Really useless thread and follow the method that Gleneagles uses. Read all his posts and you can figure out his methodology then just tweak it until you are happy with it. Stay away from the systems forum unless you want to take a two or more year detour in your journey to learn trading. If you want my help show me you have read the thread FULLY by asking some inteligent questions and I am happy to help where I can.

Trading is very personal. Trading is very simple. Trading is the hardest thing you will ever attempt to do. Trading is hard, hard, hard work. Trading success will only come from many many hours of time working on trading. You will not be able to simply copy someone else's method and have success. You will have to convince yourself fully that you are doing the right things, and that can only come from experience. I think a mentor can only take you so far. You do not have to pay a fortune for a mentor. There are many ways to enter the market that give a decent chance for profit. The mental skills necessary to guide a trade through to that profit cannot be taught as they are internal and specific to each trader. A mentor cannot know how your mind works so they cannot teach the things you will learn through experience.

You will spend a lot of time reading and studying things that will not pan out. This is not a waste of time. You can do it and you don't have to be ripped off by a "mentor". You will find what works and be successful if, and only if, you are seriously dedicated. If you are in it for the money it will be a tough road.

Good luck and I am glad to help if I can.
  • #753
  • Feb 16, 2013 10:41pm Feb 16, 2013 10:41pm
Wish I knew you in person, Seneca. Love the trading wisdom you put out here. I can relate to just about everything you say when it comes to the hardships and learning experience of trying to figure out your own method and becoming a profitable trader.

After being a losing trader for a while and doing all the wrong things, I finally am confident in my own method. I haven't tried your method yet but I can see that it is a simple, yet profitable method as well. Will definitely be trying it some time in the near future.

I had a profitable method on the longer time frames for quite some time, but I wanted to figure out intra-day trading, so I neglected what I was sure of and kept losing money being an idiot basically. But I'm finally there and the confidence that comes with it is unbelievable.

Being a poker player I do feel that I have a major edge over most people that come into the trading world without something like that to prepare them.

#1 thing above anything else in my opinion is knowing how much you will lose when your trade goes wrong and making sure that loss is irrelevant to your capital. That is a must and any new trader must make that #1.

Your words reinforce the discipline I need to go after my dreams. Thank you again.
  • #754
  • Feb 16, 2013 11:02pm Feb 16, 2013 11:02pm
Quoting Ck87
Wish I knew you in person, Seneca. Love the trading wisdom you put out here. I can relate to just about everything you say when it comes to the hardships and learning experience of trying to figure out your own method and becoming a profitable trader.

After being a losing trader for a while and doing all the wrong things, I finally am confident in my own method. I haven't tried your method yet but I can see that it is a simple, yet profitable method as well. Will definitely be trying it some time in the near future.

I had a profitable method...
I don't know the extent of your poker skills but if you are good it probably cuts several years off the trader learning curve. The two activities are so similar. I play in Atlantic City a lot and the number of traders there on the weekends is substantial. Game theory and trading go hand in hand. Good players generally make good traders as you would already have learned the value of cutting losses and riding winners to the max. You will also have a good handle on losing streaks and drawdown and what that can do to your confidence. And it goes without saying you understand when I say you can't win if you don't bet and you can't bet if you don't have any money.

Good luck, if I can help you know where to find me.
  • #755
  • Feb 17, 2013 4:15am Feb 17, 2013 4:15am
Hey Seneca,
It's cool to run into people like you with a lot in common. I play poker twice a week.
I keep telling my poker friends about the similarities with trading and how poker helped me to be a better trader.
I have been trading forex for five years, became consistentenly successful for last six months now,
averaging about four percent a week with minimum risk.
The hardest part of trading for me is staying up all night to trade the Europe/London, since I am also in East coast (NYC area).


P.S: By no means I am suggesting to anyone to start playing poker, which can be an expansive hobby for the beginners.
Never Trade without a defined risk, never, never, never.
  • #756
  • Feb 17, 2013 11:16am Feb 17, 2013 11:16am
Quoting tubguy
I guess I am one of the other folks? as I kept my response somewhat neutral for a reason.
I suspected there was more to that post than what what
was presented.

You definitely have a bigger IQ than me. Just an old cowboy here. I like the psychology thing though. Always been interested in how folks think and why.
Dear Tubguy,

I am more than sorry and I apologize as deeply as anyone can!!!
You are more than gracious and a better man than I am. You have wisdom that I lack.
I owe everyone here an apology and I'm going to write and post it as soon as I finish.
Everything to follow is exactly the sentiment I owe you personally.

I'll send my private contact info to you. SP and I are pretty much on the same page, but if there is ANYTHING I can help you with I hope you will contact me.

Sincerely,
No eyes to see
  • #757
  • Feb 17, 2013 11:38am Feb 17, 2013 11:38am
Dear SP and Everyone involved in this great thread,

I woke up from my nightmare and finally realized I also made it your nightmare.
I am extremely sorry and I regret it very much. I am literally begging for your forgiveness.

Every criticism written and directed to me is valid to some large degree. I only take exception to the thesaurus comment.
I have a gift, a blessing, that I did nothing to earn. It is probably a good gene I inherited. I have a bit of a capacity to remember things I love. They are language and the written word, and trading. A decent vocabulary is an extension of that.

But what good is it if I use it as a weapon and a defense against attacks that I provoked for no good reason????!!!!!
I'm the one that attacked in the first place for no good reason!!!!!
It proves I also inherited an asshole gene. It's my problem and I have no right to make it yours.

I preach that we all have a moral obligation to leave people and things better than we found them, to the extent we are able.
That is a sick joke coming from someone like me. There is also a hypocrite gene.

Maybe I have something worthwhile to contribute but it is wiped out when I convey it in such a stupid, asinine way.

I am sorry. I apologize to SP and to Everyone for mucking up a terrific thread.

Sincerely,
No Eyes To See
  • #758
  • Edited 1:05pm Feb 17, 2013 12:03pm | Edited 1:05pm
Quoting Seneca pilot
James 16 is a solid method. Just as with what I do if you trade price action bars J16 style you must be extremely picky and trade them at the good levels. In my journey though once I discovered the levels that work best I had to ask myself: Why wait for the bar to complete and then take the entry at the break of the bar twenty or thirty pips away from the level? I dispensed with the bar break entries and now my entries are within the wicks of the price action bars most of the time. Properly traded the J16 style will be profitable but I would rather...
Folks, IMO this is a key post; think about its mathematical implications.

The smaller the distance between your entry and SL, the higher the RR potential of a trade. For example, and everything else being equal, the trader who uses a 10 pip SL will make double the RR on ALL of his winning trades, compared to the trader who uses a 20 pip SL. And, since profit factor (aka risk adjusted return) is the product of both RR and win rate, then his PF will also be higher, provided that he doesn't get stopped out more than twice as often. So the key is finding narrow zones where price has a high enough probability of bouncing. If I understand Seneca correctly, that is why it's important to be able to pick the "good levels", and that is a big part of the core rationale behind this thread.

[EDIT]
In the screenshot, trading the pinbar ('A') using a traditional method, we would delay entry until the pinbar's high gets exceeded on candle 'C', and place our SL below the pinbar low at the red line, which is approx 105 pips. The distance from the white line to the green line (maximum potential) is also about 105 pips, which means that we get at best a 1:1 trade.

However, suppose the candle lows that are arrowed in the gold box meet our requirement of a 'key' support level, and we assume that candle A's low represents some kind of stoploss/liquidity hunt. Then, instead of the traditional approach, we enter as price falls into the gold area during candle 'B', at the gold line, with our SL at the magenta line (approx 20 pips away, just outside the gold box). The distance from the gold line to the green line is approx 160 pips, which means that we can potentially get an 8:1 trade. Hence, unless we get stopped out more than 7 times as often, this will outperform the traditional approach.

I'm NOT saying that this is necessarily typical of the levels or the setups that Seneca_pilot uses. I'm merely attempting to provide a mathematical illustration of how judicious use of S/R can potentially outperform the 'price-action-bar' approach.

(And yes, I plead guilty to posting a setup that's been cherry-picked in hindsight, to demonstrate my point).
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2013-02-18_0732.png Size: 41 KB
  • #759
  • Edited 3:27pm Feb 17, 2013 12:17pm | Edited 3:27pm
Quoting 2ii2c
Dear SP and Everyone involved in this great thread,

I woke up from my nightmare and finally realized I also made it your nightmare.
I am extremely sorry and I regret it very much. I am literally begging for your forgiveness.

Every criticism written and directed to me is valid to some large degree. I only take exception to the thesaurus comment.
I have a gift, a blessing, that I did nothing to earn. It is probably a good gene I inherited. I have a bit of a capacity to remember things I love. They are language and the written word, and trading....
On top of...
Good memory gene
Asshole gene
Hypocrite gene

You forgot to mention...
Holier than thou (condescending) gene - Napoleonic Complex-ed much???
Like to listen to own voice gene

Love,

K

PS. The writing is long-winded but nonetheless entertaining (however, not necessarily beneficial) to read. My compliments to your phrasage skills.
  • #760
  • Feb 17, 2013 12:19pm Feb 17, 2013 12:19pm
Quoting hanover
Folks, IMO this is a key post; think about its mathematical implications.

The smaller the distance between your entry and SL, the higher the RR potential of a trade. For example, and everything else being equal, the trader who uses a 10 pip SL will make double the RR on ALL of his winning trades, compared to the trader who uses a 20 pip SL. And, since profit factor (aka risk adjusted return) is the product of both RR and win rate, then his PF will also be higher, provided that he doesn't get stopped out more than twice as often. So the...
Exactly, I found the method that gives me the smallest possible stop for the largest gain. Risk reward is key in trading because we are going to have losers. The winners must be substantially bigger than the losers for us to have any meaningful equity growth.
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