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  • #130,081
  • Feb 5, 2013 3:01pm Feb 5, 2013 3:01pm
Quoting sisse
je je je ...come one mate stop with the technicalities ...well didn't realize that.

I think you will need to pay Eurostat to have the latest data (maybe not but I cant be bother) check the official EU stat http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/por...tistics/themes . I am pretty sure the German Government will have a direct access too (but you need to speak German), the last available public numbers I could find was DEC 2011 (Source: Eurostat, LFS, NMS average calculated by EIRO) ... it was 40.5h in Average)

...whatever...
i think something was missed. if a man who in the past worked 40 hrs per week. and today works 32 hours a week.. he is working 20% less.. and this is absorbed by the extra shift. if all worked the normal hours you pointed out in the past. the unemployment rate would be 20% + what today's reported rate is. the German government pushed for the partial to keep most working. it also helps with the perception of ozz.
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,082
  • Feb 5, 2013 3:08pm Feb 5, 2013 3:08pm
Quoting infinitus
Yes, the official rate is now low. But here in Germany as everywhere else they do a lot of tricks to hide the real numbers. As Hatch noted already: here in Germany we have such things like 1€ jobs. The employer pays 1€ per hour, the rest comes from the government (aka taxpayers). In 2012 600-700.000 people were in 1€ jobs for a few month. And that is only one measurement to "reduce" the unemployment rate. It is like the "inflation-rate": totally escapist

Nevertheless right now it is fairly easy to get a job in Germany. But...
like i said, ozz.
and people are fooled by the media headlines. conveniently provided by the guys getting a paycheck from the banks heavily involved in Europe.
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,083
  • Feb 5, 2013 3:30pm Feb 5, 2013 3:30pm
really liking the discussion guys but I personally think its a fallacy thinking that people in france germany etc work 35-40hrs per week thats just the law but pretty much disregarded thats the reality
  • #130,084
  • Feb 5, 2013 3:36pm Feb 5, 2013 3:36pm
42 hours were posted..
i posted 32 verse 40, i was wrong.. its actually worse. 25.6... and this info is old.. in DEC. it got worse.
if the govermnet is paying people to work in private firms.. how does this help austerity?
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/coun...k-least-915292
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,085
  • Feb 5, 2013 3:50pm Feb 5, 2013 3:50pm
Quoting sisse
Thanks for the data....

I know what you mean with the part in bold. Sadly (because it should be private generated and not public subsidized) employ people are employ people despite if the funds come from the private or the the public sector ....from a strictly macroeconomic point of view those €1 private money (the rest the state) workers are not dying in the street and they contribute to consumption, workforce and therefore GDP.

sisse


But that is kind of subsidized GDP.

Is that sustainable?

Is that sustainable in a debt loaded country to take more debt to subsidize work in this way? The most gain goes back to the employer, not back in the pockets of the taxpayers.....
  • #130,086
  • Feb 5, 2013 3:56pm Feb 5, 2013 3:56pm
Quoting gatorinla
42 hours were posted..
i posted 32 verse 40, i was wrong.. its actually worse. 25.6... and this info is old.. in DEC. it got worse.
if the govermnet is paying people to work in private firms.. how does this help austerity?
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/coun...k-least-915292
i dont give a toss what that source says its bs ( although I know nothing about the public sector and thats where they mix the figures as you know ) out off interest g when you scroll down does it have the uk numbers
  • #130,087
  • Feb 5, 2013 4:06pm Feb 5, 2013 4:06pm
Quoting infinitus
But that is kind of subsidized GDP.

Is that sustainable?

Is that sustainable in a debt loaded country to take more debt to subsidize work in this way? The most gain goes back to the employer, not back in the pockets of the taxpayers.....
gdp will go up/down as the euro deflates or inflates artificially.. its not as real as it once was.. especially now with technology sales in the new economy. its getting hard to judge anything anymore. we once we could use gdp or tonnage or electrical use etc. . with more efficiency and lighter products made from a new technology. its all skewed with currency manipulation. nobody knows whats real.. its all fake..
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,088
  • Feb 5, 2013 4:24pm Feb 5, 2013 4:24pm
Quoting cohiba pips
i dont give a toss what that source says its bs ( although I know nothing about the public sector and thats where they mix the figures as you know ) out off interest g when you scroll down does it have the uk numbers
if its bs, why would u want uk #'s. from the same place, wouldn't they be bs also?
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,089
  • Feb 5, 2013 4:35pm Feb 5, 2013 4:35pm
Quoting gatorinla
if its bs, why would u want uk #'s. from the same place, wouldn't they be bs also?
i could relate to it more and tell you if its bs or not
  • #130,090
  • Feb 5, 2013 4:44pm Feb 5, 2013 4:44pm
Quoting infinitus
But that is kind of subsidized GDP.

Is that sustainable?

Is that sustainable in a debt loaded country to take more debt to subsidize work in this way? The most gain goes back to the employer, not back in the pockets of the taxpayers.....
No is not in the long run but up you need to put it in context.

We are just passing the worst recession in the last 75 years. Among the rich and comparable Germany suffer the least in this recession and it has been widely acknowledge it was the best country in the develop world managing the crisis (internally i mean) keeping a balance between draconian cuts (Greece, Spain, etc,) not printing money like mad (inflation o deflation like the UK and Japan) and social cost (unemployment increased by 170% in the US...in German with or without all the tricks it went down).

So no is not sustainable but was the less ugly and best of the options during the crisis...it won't work at all after in normal times....

Quoting gatorinla
if its bs, why would u want uk #'s. from the same place, wouldn't they be bs also?
You are reading a misleading number that comes from averaging all hours worked in the economy. Not even Zimbabwe work 25 hours a week...in simple words if you average down all the unemployed, undermployed, self employed and retired in a country you will get those numbers... There are not statistically relevant or have any implications except to make a headline for the masses... Seriously check the main sources both across the Atlantic ....they maybe not perfect but at least you will read the relevant numbers not the (miss)interpretations...

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #130,091
  • Feb 5, 2013 4:49pm Feb 5, 2013 4:49pm
Quoting cohiba pips
i could relate to it more and tell you if its bs or not
uk not in the top 5. if i had asked the question. i bet most would say Greece. its actually Germany, but not because of the reason most think.
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,092
  • Feb 5, 2013 4:55pm Feb 5, 2013 4:55pm
Quoting sisse
No is not in the long run but up you need to put it in context.

We are just passing the worst recession in the last 75 years. Among the rich and comparable Germany suffer the least in this recession and it has been widely acknowledge it was the best country in the develop world managing the crisis (internally i mean) keeping a balance between draconian cuts (Greece, Spain, etc,) not printing money like mad (inflation o deflation like the UK and Japan) and social cost (unemployment increased by 170% in the US...in German with or without all the...
no im not. you gave numbers 5 years old. and should want to compare them to more resent ones. i dont know where you come up with retired etc. i watched a German official government program for my info. They were looking to recruit new business there. i just cant find it on the net to post.
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,093
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:04pm Feb 5, 2013 5:04pm
Quoting gatorinla
uk not in the top 5. if i had asked the question. i bet most would say Greece. its actually Germany, but not because of the reason most think.
the stats the numbers in the u.k anywho off to bed

great debate like sisse said without this kind off chat ff for me would be history
  • #130,094
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:06pm Feb 5, 2013 5:06pm
Quoting gatorinla
no im not. you gave numbers 5 years old. and should want to compare them to more resent ones. i dont know where you come up with retired etc. i watched a German official government program for my info. They were looking to recruit new business there. i just cant find it on the net to post.
Try this http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL# ... You have lots of info there. That's the source of your quote ...check the productivity per hour and GDP that should be a decent benchmark on the side with unemployment ...

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #130,095
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:17pm Feb 5, 2013 5:17pm
Quoting sisse
Try this http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=LEVEL# ... You have lots of info there. That's the source of your quote ...check the productivity per hour and GDP that should be a decent benchmark on the side with unemployment ...

sisse
its complicated.. is gdp up because more was produced? or was it because the competition distorted the gdp #. when he devalued his currency giving your gdp a false #? has tonnage increased or decreased to reflect the gdp #?

its like the claim china is making about increasing gdp. and yet the aud was dropping.. as china was claiming a increase.
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,096
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:30pm Feb 5, 2013 5:30pm
Quoting gatorinla
its complicated.. is gdp up because more was produced? or was it because the competition distorted the gdp #. when he devalued his currency giving your gdp a false #? has tonnage increased or decreased to reflect the gdp #?

its like the claim china is making about increasing gdp. and yet the aud was dropping.. as china was claiming a increase.
Statistics don't work like in Economics. In general, GDP when used for comparative purposes is anchor to a base year (so u can compare with the same measure). For other purposes you anchor real GDP to PPP (purchasing parity power) to avoid those distortions.

In the case of labour productivity over the GDP, the exchange rate is irrelevant as nominal GDP is in the countries currency and the important factor is understanding it's incidence on the economy....

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #130,097
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:34pm Feb 5, 2013 5:34pm
the Dow is up, lets party. is gbp up and near = to 2007? or is the devalued money giving a false reading? and if so, is the devalued money also given a smaller gdp in tonnage a = meaning, but in reality its smaller gdp..
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,098
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:38pm Feb 5, 2013 5:38pm
Quoting sisse
Statistics don't work like in Economics. In general, GDP when used for comparative purposes is anchor to a base year (so u can compare with the same measure). For other purposes you anchor real GDP to PPP (purchasing parity power) to avoid those distortions.

In the case of labour productivity over the GDP, the exchange rate is irrelevant as nominal GDP is in the countries currency and the important factor is understanding it's incidence on the economy....

sisse
disagree.. for instance japan is ej wise 35% lower and 3x% uj ... that will cause a higher gdp for them.. but its all smoke and mirrors..
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
  • #130,099
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:41pm Feb 5, 2013 5:41pm
Quoting gatorinla
the Dow is up, lets party. is gbp up and near = to 2007? or is the devalued money giving a false reading? and if so, is the devalued money also given a smaller gdp in tonnage a = meaning, but in reality its smaller gdp..
Now we agree.

That is exactly one of the points I was making. Artificially devaluing a currency x extended period of time to hide structural problems is not the solution (is actually a problem). That's why the BOE has been a disaster and the BOJ get it all wrong ...they can run but the can't hide for much longer... Killing the yen and the pound will only backfire if they don't address the real problems.

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
  • #130,100
  • Feb 5, 2013 5:46pm Feb 5, 2013 5:46pm
Quoting sisse
Now we agree.

That is exactly one of the points I was making. Artificially devaluing a currency x extended period of time to hide structural problems is not the solution (is actually a problem). That's why the BOE has been a disaster and the BOJ get it all wrong ...they can run but the can't hide for much longer... Killing the yen and the pound will only backfire if they don't address the real problems.

sisse
and the reaction is they will kill ez exports.. and in the process.. Germany unemployment like DEc. has shown is on a unsustainable course. until the backfire happens.. dec. is real... and today the ej is 11% higher then it was in dec. or 33% higher then the move that gave dec. #s
those who can, do. those who cant, talk about those who can
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