If it's such a great system, why isn't there a Trade Explorer attached? | Page 6 | Forex Factory

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If it's such a great system, why isn't there a Trade Explorer attached?

  • #101
  • Feb 2, 2013 7:11am Feb 2, 2013 7:11am
Trader A trading system, 12 months account statement on Explorer 30% ROI
Trader B trading system, says system has been profitable for 12 months (word of mouth)

Now which trader's system would you give your time and attention to study first given the fact you could spend months and find out it doesn't make sense even though trader B's might be better ?
  • #102
  • Feb 2, 2013 8:54am Feb 2, 2013 8:54am
Quoting Kasapreko
Trader A trading system, 12 months account statement on Explorer 30% ROI
Trader B trading system, says system has been profitable for 12 months (word of mouth)

Now which trader's system would you give your time and attention to study first given the fact you could spend months and find out it doesn't make sense even though trader B's might be better ?

it's going to take you months to find out if the system is profitable or not???? really? you're doing something wrong then
tradewith60
  • #103
  • Feb 2, 2013 8:58am Feb 2, 2013 8:58am
Quoting tar
It should be that way but in reality it isnt , that's why if you are familiar with systems threads you would have noticed how many systems have changed and sometimes the latest version of the system has nothing to do with the first post , thats why they keep editing and tweaking their own system , but the question is if it was working why change it ? and if it wasn't working then why share it ? and if it was working but not anymore then who said these changes and modifications wont stop working as well ? The simple fact is each system is good for...
expanding on concepts and ideas that are grounded in logic is not always a bad thing, most of the pro traders are constantly looking at variations, improvements to their style of trading...

I have 4 or 5 different styles of applying the basic concept.. trend, retrace, price action, momentum... some ideas have lower win rates but higher R/R and greater trade frequency, but thats not always to my taste, sometimes I want fewer higher probability trades. I can switch and change based on how im feeling, market conditions etc etc.. and all traders should.
tradewith60
  • #104
  • Feb 2, 2013 9:04am Feb 2, 2013 9:04am
Quoting 60minuteman
expanding on concepts and ideas that are grounded in logic is not always a bad thing, most of the pro traders are constantly looking at variations, improvements to their style of trading...

I have 4 or 5 different styles of applying the basic concept.. trend, retrace, price action, momentum... some ideas have lower win rates but higher R/R and greater trade frequency, but thats not always to my taste, sometimes I want fewer higher probability trades. I can switch and change based on how im feeling, market conditions etc etc.. and all traders...
I didn't say it is a bad idea , infact i love the Trading systems section !
  • #105
  • Feb 2, 2013 9:12am Feb 2, 2013 9:12am
Quoting tar
I didn't say it is a bad idea , infact i love the Trading systems section !
good, everyone should really..

It's about the best source of information on the internet where you can learn what works and what doesn't...

if we all had to rely on the 1 sided commercial sites it would only make things harder for us all..
tradewith60
  • #106
  • Feb 2, 2013 10:05am Feb 2, 2013 10:05am
Many of you don't seem to understand or care the important point Real Jumper is trying to make. I could give you my rules. I could have the best trade expolorer in all of trade explorerdom. It stlll doesn't mean YOU can make money with my method. It seems that many of the readers on this forum are incredibly selfish and don't want to do any work for themselves. You want the system, and, oh by the way, could you please post proof in the form of a trade explorer so I don't have to waste my valuable time learning how to trade. I'd rather just copy your hard work.

Sad.
  • #107
  • Feb 2, 2013 10:13am Feb 2, 2013 10:13am
Quoting Seneca pilot
Many of you don't seem to understand or care the important point Real Jumper is trying to make. I could give you my rules. I could have the best trade expolorer in all of trade explorerdom. It stlll doesn't mean YOU can make money with my method. It seems that many of the readers on this forum are incredibly selfish and don't want to do any work for themselves. You want the system, and, oh by the way, could you please post proof in the form of a trade explorer so I don't have to waste my valuable time learning how to trade. I'd rather just copy...
I dont think anyone in this thread asked for copying the signals nor we are interested in the system developer trading activity .
  • #108
  • Feb 2, 2013 10:29am Feb 2, 2013 10:29am
Quoting tar
I dont think anyone in this thread asked for copying the signals nor we are interested in the system developer trading activity .
You may be speaking for yourself but most are in fact just looking for someones profitable method to follow. They want the method posted and proof of the profitability in the form of a TE.
  • #109
  • Feb 2, 2013 10:42am Feb 2, 2013 10:42am
had these discussions before...its the same mentality that only ever employed football coaches who could play football... dumb thinking, dumb money
tradewith60
  • #110
  • Feb 2, 2013 10:47am Feb 2, 2013 10:47am
Quoting Gumrai
I think that the Trading Discussion forum is for brainstorming and ideas.
Trading Systems forum is for completed systems and maybe system developement.
Gumrai, I just found this thread, read about 15 min worth of this back and forth arguing and just wanted to say....YOU are exactly right. The trading discussion area is more for ideas and questions and thoughts rather than actual systems or proof of anything. The Trading Systems area is for people with either totally completed systems and they dont want any help or feedback or demands of proof. And other more left brained people want statisics, percentages, annual return, and an exact method. Thats why right brain people are the artists and creatives of the world and left brain people are the accountants, surgeons and pharmacists of the world. We need both kind.

I am a bit of both. Ifr you give me an exact system with rules, I may backtest it myself if you dont offer trade explorer proof or anything else, or...if you offer stats, it is only fair you be able to back them up or have a good reason as to why not. Period. End of discussion.

There also are 2 other types here on FF. Those who want to learn or teach. And the second kind is those who want to tear everyone down who doesnt offer proof or show that they are better traders. In other words Gumraj, some of us are here to learn and make money, others are here to destroy and build their ego. When you get too many of the second kind, it is the moderators job to warn or ban them. Again....period.

But at the end of the day 98% of us who are here can not trade profitably consistently, or we would not be here. That leaves us to find the other 2%. Very hard! Im hear many years and just found a winning trader or two.

On the other hand as one poster said...I learned as much from bad traders,maybe more, than from pros. Because bad traders have made many more mistakes they can share with us. And with bad traders,sometimes we just need to do opposite what they say. I think different personalities need to find their own level.Thats what makes FF soooooo popular. If you really want to learn things, you will find many here to offer suggestions. And if you want to show how great you are, many will listen to you also.

But...when you have people who seem to be here every day and challenging all the posters to prove every single thing, they are just forgetting we are all adults and will eventually see thru the liars at some point too. And then you have the scammers who take a long time to build a nice thread, and then I suspect they PM the weaker members and start charging them. Thats when Id demand proof on the explorer...if I was asked to pay. And as anywhere else, scammers are always around crowds of people looking to find a new way to make money. Just be careful. And block those who drain your energy with negativity.
  • #111
  • Feb 2, 2013 10:52am Feb 2, 2013 10:52am
I agree 100%
Tebis


Quoting Silat50
Gumrai, I just found this thread, read about 15 min worth of this back and forth arguing and just wanted to say....YOU are exactly right. The trading discussion area is more for ideas and questions and thoughts rather than actual systems or proof of anything. The Trading Systems area is for people with either totally completed systems and they dont want any help or feedback or demands of proof. And other more left brained people want statisics, percentages, annual return, and an exact method. Thats why right brain people are the artists and creatives...
  • #112
  • Feb 2, 2013 1:10pm Feb 2, 2013 1:10pm
Quoting 60minuteman
there you go again concerning yourself with the thread starter.... it isnt a competition, its you against you..
surely you should be focussing on your own trading. Just stop and ask yourself why your brain is telling you other traders earning respect is important to YOU... when you suss it out, you will thank me

.
Your replies are puzzling to say the least. It's like you quote my post and then respond to something else.
This thread is about why thread starters in Trading Systems do or don't attach TE, so it is not at all surprising that I may talk about the thread starter is it?
I focus on my own trading, why would you think anything else?
Others earning respect is not important to me, where do you get that idea? I simply stated that those thread starters that attach a TE are worthy of respect, do you disagree with that?

Quoting 60minuteman
quoting you now

"A system is a clearly defined set of criteria that once met signal a trade entry."

mmm... so you just need to test that don't you... talk about missing your own point, are you on FF just to see who's the best trader? do you want to be a good trader or make money... you need to decide that first...

.
Did you miss what I said in my post that you quoted?

Quote
Yes, everybody should test the system for themselves,
mmm... so how am I missing my own point?

No. I am not on FF just to see who's the best trader. I've never said anything to give that indication. I am here to take part in discussions and maybe learn something.

"Do you want to be a good trader or make money?" I want to be both, don't you?





.
Please Do Not PM Me With Coding Enquiries
  • #113
  • Feb 2, 2013 2:04pm Feb 2, 2013 2:04pm
Quoting 60minuteman
it's going to take you months to find out if the system is profitable or not???? really? you're doing something wrong then
You know that depends on your time frame.If you traded daily charts 1 month would be to short a time to judge a system or method
  • #114
  • Feb 2, 2013 4:17pm Feb 2, 2013 4:17pm
Quoting tar
Your comments is still irrelevant mate maybe u didn't get our comments , any normal trader would wonder the same why not to show on real life "TE" how a system works , it is the whole purpose of a system thread don't you think ?
It, the TE, does not show "how a system works". It shows ONLY that it works for the systems developer.....and NOTHING else


Quoting tar
the answer is clear mate they want to cherry pick their setups and post screen shots but in reality they don't make money from their own systems and they are not sure if it is going to work.
This is where your argument falls over every time. You keeping assuming that you know what every system developer thinks, and that every system cannot possibly work, that they all want to "cherry pick" their setups and that they none of them make any money. Very presumptuous of you......unless of course you have extensively tested EVERY system and interviewed EVER developer/



Quoting tar
Now whats the point from sharing a system even if they dont have the confidence in it ,
More unsubstantiated presumptions



Quoting tar
it could be ego , guru , scam , skype groups or living a lie , or it could be some sort of brain storming , i would call the systems section an idea place , where we can share ideas and backtest some setups ... etc .
In some case I'm sure you're right...there will be people who get a head rush and post a incompletely tested system......and they will pay the price of ridicule and embarrassment in from of the trading world......they won't last long!!



Quoting tar
That being said i wont dismiss that some of them are genuine and want to help others and maybe they don't have the time to use the TE
You're not listening......it's not about having "time to use the TE". It only proves that the system developer....AND NO ONE ELSE......is profitable with the system. If the system is to be properly proved, it would require a decent number of traders from across the spectrum of learners to experts to test the system with a TE and the results would show whether the system is a good one or not. A single TE posted by the system developer is useless information.

Quoting tar
any system out there will become obsolete in no time in these competitive markets,
Now you're just parroting what you've read. Every heard of Jesse Livermore? Without a doubt the worlds greatest ever stock trader. He made his first million in about (from memory) 1907, and his system is still in widespread use today by the biggest and the smallest traders and they still make money. You know why? Because his system was very carefully thought out, tested with small amounts of capital, and then with ever increasing amounts of capital until he was a millionair by the age of 31.


Quoting tar
we are talking about trillions of $ here exchanged in a daily basis do you really think some sort of a free thread will make you money in the Forex markets ?!
So you're saying that it is impossible to make a profit from any free system posted here at FF are you? You contradict yourself. But to answer your question, yes, of course it's possible to make money in the FX market with a free system......but you have to focus only on the system and dedicate yourself to learning it completely and thoroughly. Not all systems will make money of course......and many systems that make money just do not suit an individual, but if you are now categorically stating that no system on a free thread can possibly make money, then what's the point of the 'systems thread'....and what's the point of the TE anyway if all systems are failures???

It seems to me that you personally have not found any success in any of the systems you have tried. There could, and will be many and varied reasons for that, but unless you have personally tested to exhaustion every system on the systems thread......you simply are cannot make that statement.

Many people in my thread make money......I'm sure that many have left because they can't make money. Does that mean that the system is a failure?....no...it means that they system doesn't work for everyone...and there are a million reasons why it will work for 'jack', but not for 'John'

My comments are not irrelevant.....you're just not seeing the bigger picture.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #115
  • Feb 3, 2013 5:49pm Feb 3, 2013 5:49pm
I for one would certainly like to see Trade Explorers on the Trading Systems Forum. As I said in an earlier post here , I was a beta tester for this software and it is a brilliant bit of kit. If anybody attaches a Trade Explorer to a thread, or their profile, all kudos to them. If it's a loser, then even more kudos to them, because we all know we can have losing streaks and every trade we open is a loser until we have covered the spread.

Firstly it would prove that someone can make a profit. That's a start, in my opinion. Secondly it might give some value to the Expectancy of a system. I use a capital E there because experienced traders will know that it has a mathematical basis. Third, it might provide the basis for some discussion regarding why certain set ups were taken and others left alone. Fourth, it might point out when trading conditions aren't the best for the strategy. I honestly don't see a problem. Providing a signal service for people who can't be bothered to learn how to trade? How could that be a problem? If the thread starter decides to stop then that's his/her prerogative.

A big problem with this site is that it attracts commercial interest and scammers and I've been around long enough to know how it is done. There are various methods. One of them is to attract punters to your system and then take them "off site" if they can't turn a buck. Forex Factory do a good job of weeding out the commercial interest and scammers but of course it is not easy to identify or prove. Some threads can be "sleepers" which turn commercial when the thread starter reckons the time is right.

Personally, I would not start a Trading Systems thread for reasons I have already outlined. But I will always call to question the motives of anyone who does, unless, perhaps if they put these words: "I'd like help building a strategy..."
Gone to a better place
  • #116
  • Feb 3, 2013 6:10pm Feb 3, 2013 6:10pm
Quoting smikester
A big problem with this site is that it attracts commercial interest and scammers and I've been around long enough to know how it is done. There are various methods. One of them is to attract punters to your system and then take them "off site" if they can't turn a buck. Forex Factory do a good job of weeding out the commercial interest and scammers but of course it is not easy to identify or prove. Some threads can be "sleepers" which turn commercial when the thread starter reckons the time is right.

I agree with you up to a point.....we don't want scammers here......especially the 'Jacko's' of the FX world.

I fail to see how the inclusion of a TE explorer would help to weed out the scammers though. if anything, it makes life easier for scammers.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #117
  • Feb 3, 2013 6:19pm Feb 3, 2013 6:19pm
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
I haven't looked into Trade Explorers yet -- I don't see how that can help me trade??? It's all too late....
Anyone into forex should know losses are part of the business. Marketing strategy is to show the beginner the compounding spreadsheet by which they can be rich in a year -- not the experienced trader who may put the spreadsheet to use.
Paper trade for a year.
Find yourself a suitable system - one that suits you.
Paper trade it profitably then go to a small live account.
Sound simple enough?
What do other peoples profits matter? They are everywhere.....

Why get a signal service? Just invest your money with a trader.
  • #118
  • Feb 4, 2013 9:51am Feb 4, 2013 9:51am
Quoting Jamz
I haven't looked into Trade Explorers yet -- I don't see how that can help me trade??? It's all too late....
Anyone into forex should know losses are part of the business. Marketing strategy is to show the beginner the compounding spreadsheet by which they can be rich in a year -- not the experienced trader who may put the spreadsheet to use.
Paper trade for a year.
Find yourself a suitable system - one that suits you.
Paper trade it profitably then go to a small live account.
Sound simple enough?
What do other peoples profits matter? They...

I THINK SOME OF YOU HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY! In any sport, and especially any professional sport, would any team ever hire you without seeing you do what you claim you can do. To get any respect in anything you have to be seen "walking your talk."

It is no coincidence that almost zero percent of software vendors and system sellers never show their tax returns or even their trading statements. ALMOST NONE CAN WIN! And they cover it up with the B.S. "I love to teach and I want to give back." Yeah....ok. Im trading 15+ years. I say, stick that answer up your __s! EITHER USE A TRADE EXPLORER HERE, or you just are not a professional, no matter how much theory you know and how nice a guy you are. Mine is up. And I just use it to papertrade, not to show off. But as the people on MY thread have seen,when I had 13 for 13 winners a few weeks ago, I screen captured it right from my live trading platforem and showed it. If you arent at least doing that..........................99% YOU ARE NOT PROFITABLE. PERIOD!

Oh and the guy who talked about Jesse Livermore. Jesse had a trade explore of a sort back then too. You know how much profit he made....in the end! ZERO! Yiou know why.....his "trade explorer" showed that he wound up checking into a hotel and committing suicide. NO WINNING TRADER WOULD DO THAT! Im 54 yrs old. Im a sociology major and I spent my life watching what makes people do and act the way they do. Long before I ever heard of Forex. Anyone is free to PM me if you have serious questions or need advice. Im on these boards whether FF, mikes, TL....for years and years. I walk my talk.
  • #119
  • Feb 4, 2013 3:28pm Feb 4, 2013 3:28pm
  •  Jamz
  • | Joined May 2012 | Status: Tops and bottoms are for bikinis | 798 Posts
Quoting Silat50
I THINK SOME OF YOU HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY! In any sport, and especially any professional sport, would any team ever hire you without seeing you do what you claim you can do.
Paid for the live trading room - didn't work out and not just for me either. I'm not paying for anything ever again as I would rather keep reading and learning myself. Other people's winners do not inspire me - I'm glad they know what they are doing and hope they keep repeating.

Jesse Livermore? Well, he certainly wasn't alone there hitting the lost it posistion in life. Wealth never stopped a guy from topping himself.

Sociology? I'm glad we're all different.
  • #120
  • Feb 4, 2013 4:13pm Feb 4, 2013 4:13pm
Quoting Silat50
I THINK SOME OF YOU HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY! In any sport, and especially any professional sport, would any team ever hire you without seeing you do what you claim you can do. To get any respect in anything you have to be seen "walking your talk."

It is no coincidence that almost zero percent of software vendors and system sellers never show their tax returns or even their trading statements. ALMOST NONE CAN WIN! And they cover it up with the B.S. "I love to teach and I want to give back." Yeah....ok. Im trading 15+...
get you
tradewith60
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