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Gann Analysis

  • #3,601
  • Jan 21, 2013 1:58am Jan 21, 2013 1:58am
Look. When we have a system then graph the different time-frames we have the same lines. On the daily chart, in H4 chart and finally M15 graphics.

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,602
  • Jan 21, 2013 3:39am Jan 21, 2013 3:39am
Quoting ForExtraPips
So, who's right? Gann or Krausz?
I read Krausz's book yesterday, not very thoroughly, but I think I got the main points. The trading systems in that book have very little to do with Mr. Gann's work, in fact the title gives the first warning - after "Gann treasure dicovered" the most inapropiate next word would be "simple". No matter that it is a very clear and systematic approach - Mr. Krausz defines every term he uses, he has his own trend indicator and thoroughly explains how it should be used. That really is a simple system, because it has exact rules. Krausz is also a very profitable trader (this is not written in the book, but is true). Swing direction has very common to Bill Williams' market fractal explanation; trend direction and continuation explained in the book is almost the same as Joe Ross' 1-2-3 and Ross Hook. In fact Bill Williams' Thumb Trade and Joe Ross' TTE may be a good improvement to Krausz theory for an earlier and safer entry for the average reader. The Hi-Lo Activator reminded me for Drummond geometry - no matter they are very different approches, Charles Drummond's rules may be applied to that indicator to recieve more information about the market.
Rules come from understanding - there always is a man who understands and systemizes that in knowledge, rules which he gives to the others. We may follow the rules, we may accumulate the knowledge, but without understanding we will be lost in the markets. Understanding may be based on someone else's rules and knowledge, since understanding has layers in this world, but it comes from within, it cannot be passed.

P.S. thanks for the link
  • #3,603
  • Jan 21, 2013 3:52am Jan 21, 2013 3:52am
Shortly PA analysis with the HiLo Activator.

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New switching after 10 minutes.
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,604
  • Jan 21, 2013 3:57am Jan 21, 2013 3:57am
Quoting godim
I want to finish my theme. There must be a system of rules that we follow. Then we can arrange, to systematize, the chaos of the market.
Agreed, that is the way to success.
What really happens is no matter how many books we have read and what systems we have tried after some time we start to choose the rules we follow and make our own system, no matter how similar to someone else's. That choise is based on understanding - our own understanding about the market
  • #3,605
  • Jan 21, 2013 4:19am Jan 21, 2013 4:19am
Quoting godim
Shortly PA analysis with the HiLo Activator.

Attachment

New switching after 10 minutes.
Need at least two H4 bars with peaks over 3335.

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,606
  • Jan 21, 2013 4:28am Jan 21, 2013 4:28am
Quoting godim
Need at least two H4 bars with peaks over 3335.

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Whether we will be able to see it all and of the chart with fan?

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While the price is above the blue 1x1 bulls prevail. While the price is below the yellow 1x1 bears prevail. The balance will soon be broken. Just because there is no space and time ...
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,607
  • Jan 21, 2013 4:38am Jan 21, 2013 4:38am
That's how simple it is to make at least two scenarios.

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,608
  • Jan 21, 2013 4:46am Jan 21, 2013 4:46am
Another part of the system are tables with the levels of angles. Selected levels were support and resistance in the next 4 hours.

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,609
  • Jan 21, 2013 5:39am Jan 21, 2013 5:39am
Quoting godim
That's how simple it is to make at least two scenarios.

Attachment
Godim, how would you define the price action if it goes "between the angles" (where the red star is)?
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  • #3,610
  • Jan 21, 2013 6:14am Jan 21, 2013 6:14am
Quoting kypa
Godim, how would you define the price action if it goes "between the angles" (where the red star is)?
Here both bears and bulsl in defense. If it lasts longer, it is a consequence of a debt consolidation price.

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,611
  • Jan 21, 2013 6:31am Jan 21, 2013 6:31am
Quoting godim
Here both bears and bulsl in defense. If it lasts longer, it is a consequence of a debt consolidation price.

Attachment
Thanks, one more point of view is always of value to me.
If that scenario really happens, eventually there will be a break of one party's last defense. Suppose it is the bulls - price break down. At that moment where would you build a fan from, and which fan would be more important for the price and why
  • #3,612
  • Jan 21, 2013 7:00am Jan 21, 2013 7:00am
Quoting kypa
Thanks, one more point of view is always of value to me.
If that scenario really happens, eventually there will be a break of one party's last defense. Suppose it is the bulls - price break down. At that moment where would you build a fan from, and which fan would be more important for the price and why
I build fans just over the tops and bottoms of dwo-day swing chart. For me most strongly is the last fan. I am always drawn in light blue. Then is yellow. Then there are two gray. And the "old" fans.

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,613
  • Jan 21, 2013 7:12am Jan 21, 2013 7:12am
Here I show another concept: the penetration.

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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #3,614
  • Edited 8:05am Jan 21, 2013 7:52am | Edited 8:05am
Quoting godim
I build fans just over the tops and bottoms of dwo-day swing chart. For me most strongly is the last fan. I am always drawn in light blue. Then is yellow. Then there are two gray. And the "old" fans.
I thought about the purple chart, especially the consolidation january-march 2012:
Why would you build a fan at 1.3319, but not from the next two tops and bottoms, since price goes in the consolidation area (both sides in defence). I understand why you build fans from 1.2974 and 1.3485 and keep them as important as their smallest angles represent the last lines of defense.
The dots on the white chart are tradeinterceptor's hi-lo activator (I know it sucks) with a period of 3, angles are at the rate of 15.25 pips per day
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  • #3,615
  • Jan 21, 2013 8:07am Jan 21, 2013 8:07am
Quoting kypa
Rules come from understanding - there always is a man who understands and systemizes that in knowledge, rules which he gives to the others. We may follow the rules, we may accumulate the knowledge, but without understanding we will be lost in the markets. Understanding may be based on someone else's rules and knowledge, since understanding has layers in this world, but it comes from within, it cannot be passed.
Excellent points. Looking forward to your future posts. Thanks for sharing.
Time turns trend. - W.D. Gann
  • #3,616
  • Jan 21, 2013 8:32am Jan 21, 2013 8:32am
I think it can be troubling for anyone to understand the price time relationship if one cannot understand the commitment of traders participation's @ any of these conjunctions of price/time, after all its just a line on a chart with a theoretical math fundamental at its source BUT whats the psychology of the action and who is playing at the time of action is the single biggest clue anyone can have as to its going to be true or false. IMO

So in essence order flow and participation is the root fundamental of any and all markets me thinks
All the angles do is place a theory around the fact that YES its doing something and yes i can determine how much and how fast they are doing it by its construction
"Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do"
  • #3,617
  • Jan 21, 2013 9:27am Jan 21, 2013 9:27am
Quoting ForExtraPips
Excellent points. Looking forward to your future posts. Thanks for sharing.
I'm glad you like that, yesterday when I told that fellow that there are no secrets in Tunel thru the air what I thought was much of that kind of understanding - when we choose to approach life (or a book) with a there-are-no-secrets-attitude it is much easier to live and understand, as we are not trying to interpret, decode, translate but just plainly recieving the world's information
  • #3,618
  • Jan 21, 2013 9:34am Jan 21, 2013 9:34am
Quoting OrionsWay
I think it can be troubling for anyone to understand the price time relationship if one cannot understand the commitment of traders participation's @ any of these conjunctions of price/time, after all its just a line on a chart with a theoretical math fundamental at its source BUT whats the psychology of the action and who is playing at the time of action is the single biggest clue anyone can have as to its going to be true or false. IMO

So in essence order flow and participation is the root fundamental of any and all markets me thinks
All the...

Totallly agree, although the day by day analyzing with only weekly data is a bit subjective at times (at least I don't think I am always right what I think is equal with reality), COT reports are one of the very deficit chunks of fundamental information we poor traders can afford
  • #3,619
  • Jan 21, 2013 9:55am Jan 21, 2013 9:55am
Quoting kypa
Totallly agree, although the day by day analyzing with only weekly data is a bit subjective at times (at least I don't think I am always right what I think is equal with reality), COT reports are one of the very deficit chunks of fundamental information we poor traders can afford

No i didnt mean the COT report, sorry for misrepresenting, i meant the commitment at which they are willing to participate aka volume sorry about that, there is 1 thing they cannot ever hide, although they may disillusion ppl here and there they cannot hide the fact that large amounts of orders are being place whether buying or selling(one's intrepretation of such event) at certain points of the markets evolution. these things cannot be hidden ever only misinterpreted
"Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do"
  • #3,620
  • Jan 21, 2013 10:25am Jan 21, 2013 10:25am
Quoting OrionsWay
No i didnt mean the COT report, sorry for misrepresenting, i meant the commitment at which they are willing to participate aka volume sorry about that, there is 1 thing they cannot ever hide, although they may disillusion ppl here and there they cannot hide the fact that large amounts of orders are being place whether buying or selling(one's intrepretation of such event) at certain points of the markets evolution. these things cannot be hidden ever only misinterpreted
It's my mistake, you know - if one think he's a hammer everything seems like a nail I watch the COT reports almost every week and the last one this morning and it's still in my mind.
But we may be talking for about the same thing anyway - as them who lie to us and accumulate our money in their accounts I suppose you mean the large bankers, market makers, pools and common kinds of thieves. And that is what I am trying to find in the COT reports and the futures' volumes and open interest. Since there are generally two sides in the futures markets - the commercials - who have international large businesses and know that prices will go at X and will lose a lot of money if prices go to Y, and though are "afraid" of Y and purchase insurance at the market as a countertrend position; and the speculators - who know that prices will go to X and purchase the trend. I am trying to find out when there is large amount of orders at some point whose are these orders, is that somebody's investment for a fat profit that will produce a trend, or is it somebody else's insurance that will produce only a small reaction, since both somebodies know where the prices will go in a few months
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