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Trader or Gambler?

  • #41
  • Jan 15, 2013 3:46pm Jan 15, 2013 3:46pm
lol ... dick. Haven't you got any arse shakers to wind up? I'm trying to gamble here.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #42
  • Jan 15, 2013 5:12pm Jan 15, 2013 5:12pm
Quoting Patience
lol ... dick. Haven't you got any arse shakers to wind up? I'm trying to gamble here.
This is how I spend my Quality time( with You .. )


Inserted Video


BTW , buy some GU will Ya ..am tired of scalping the damn thing ..I need a breakout ..
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  • #43
  • Jan 15, 2013 9:46pm Jan 15, 2013 9:46pm
Quoting Patience
I have far more admiration for someone that is running a successful business with employees than someone who sits at home in their pyjamas pushing a few keys on their keyboard.
//-----

hey miss p...... so, guess i better put on some pants or turn off the webcam...... ooppps.... too late..... priscilla just did both......

just recently on another forum some hayseed got drug thru the brush for suggesting trading was akin to gambling...... still not healed up good, so i'll keep my mouth shut here.......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #44
  • Jan 16, 2013 4:43am Jan 16, 2013 4:43am
Quoting taomql4
BTW , buy some GU will Ya ..am tired of scalping the damn thing ..I need a breakout ..

You already know that I don't trade that psychotic major. I don't like to gamble my money on non-performers. There are far better horses in this race to have a punt on.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #45
  • Jan 16, 2013 4:51am Jan 16, 2013 4:51am
Quoting hayseed
//-----

hey miss p...... so, guess i better put on some pants or turn off the webcam...... ooppps.... too late..... priscilla just did both......

just recently on another forum some hayseed got drug thru the brush for suggesting trading was akin to gambling...... still not healed up good, so i'll keep my mouth shut here.......h
lolz .... the things Priscilla has to put up with. I don't know how she does it. Please give her my warmest regards.

We can't be sensitive about things said to us by complete strangers on the internet Hayseed. The forex market ain't for pussys. Anyway, I've discovered, in my years of banging around a few forex forums, that there are some seriously unstable people out there in need of urgent medication.

Happy New Year to you and Priscilla.

Inserted Video
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #46
  • Jan 16, 2013 6:20am Jan 16, 2013 6:20am
Quoting Patience
You already know that I don't trade that psychotic major. I don't like to gamble my money on non-performers. There are far better horses in this race to have a punt on.
You Sold it , didn't Ya ..
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  • #47
  • Edited 8:48am Jan 16, 2013 8:48am | Edited 8:48am
Quoting taomql4
You Sold it , didn't Ya ..
I don't understand why you would make the range of that candle a supply zone. First, if you do that, and look at the chart you have, you'd see that price really didn't leave the supply zone, and if you are using S/D, don't you want price to really leave a level?

Also, patience, I'm still waiting on those answers. Here, let me get the questions for you:

Quote
Now, if you want to say that trading is gambling, then you're saying that trading is random. Does price really move randomly? I mean, do institutional customers just randomly buy a random amount of lots every time an order is placed? Is it random that a broker would balance out their inventory when the exposure is too great to one side? Are humans that unpredictable?
I'd like to hear some real points as to why trading isn't akin to poker, rather than some emotionally based appeals. What I'd also like to know, and this goes for anyone who thinks trading is just gambling or dumb random luck, why are you even here? Why trade? Do you hope that you'll make money?
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #48
  • Jan 16, 2013 8:49am Jan 16, 2013 8:49am
Quoting taomql4
You Sold it , didn't Ya ..
Oh dear. You can't win them all

But no, I bought, sold, bought, sold, bought, sold ... well ... you get the picture. Like a ninja. I'm trying out a new strategy. I'm calling it "It's not the number of pips you harvest, but the size that counts". Always appropriately leveraged of course. And I'm done for the week, unless I want to be greedy. Looks like the mangiare is on me then.

Anyway, the discussion on this gambling lark seems to have died out. Did we reach a verdict?

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Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #49
  • Jan 16, 2013 8:59am Jan 16, 2013 8:59am
Quoting GnarlyPips
why are you even here?
Have you ever worked in a large office? I mean offices with several hundred people? Do you know who the most fun people usually are in office? It's the boys in the mail room. You know, the ones that run around the building delivering post to your In Tray and removing stuff from your Out Tray. When I used to get bored with office work, I'd meander down to the mail room and have a laugh with the boys, tell a few dirty jokes, throw a few things around, turn the radio up and pretend to breakdance, that kind of thing. After a few years, this forum is like the mailroom in an office. Just a source of entertainment.

Quoting GnarlyPips
Do you hope that you'll make money?
Nope. This is my source of income.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #50
  • Jan 16, 2013 9:07am Jan 16, 2013 9:07am
Quoting Patience
Have you ever worked in a large office? I mean offices with several hundred people? Do you know who the most fun people usually are in office? It's the boys in the mail room. You know, the ones that run around the building delivering post to your In Tray and removing stuff from your Out Tray. When I used to get bored with office work, I'd meander down to the mail room and have a laugh with the boys, tell a few dirty jokes, throw a few things around, turn the radio up and pretend to breakdance, that kind of thing. After a few years, this forum...

Then why do you call yourself a gambler?

Also, I'd like to know why trading isn't akin to poker. Can you stop avoiding the question?
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #51
  • Jan 16, 2013 2:59pm Jan 16, 2013 2:59pm
Quoting GnarlyPips
Then why do you call yourself a gambler?

And I go back to the definition you provided: "A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence".

What I do to earn my crust does not define me as a person. Being a trader is nothing special. I do not have a hang-up about the word gambler. And some of the most obnoxious and arrogant people go around this forum screaming that they are a trader. I don't want to be one of them.


Quoting GnarlyPips
Also, I'd like to know why trading isn't akin to poker. Can you stop avoiding the question?

I'm not avoiding the question. I don't play poker so I cannot comment upon it. Slots are more my bag if I am in the casino arena.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #52
  • Edited 3:50pm Jan 16, 2013 3:48pm | Edited 3:50pm
Quoting Patience
And I go back to the definition you provided: "A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence".

What I do to earn my crust does not define me as a person. Being a trader is nothing special. I do not have a hang-up about the word gambler. And some of the most obnoxious and arrogant people go around this forum screaming that they are a trader. I don't want to be one of them....

For the definition, you need to read the "NOT UNDER HIS CONTROL OR INFLUENCE" part. About this part of the definition, I posted this:

Quote
...So, when I trade, I influence the exposure of my broker, albeit very insignificantly. It remains a fact every time I open a trade. If you say otherwise, I would like to understand where you are coming from...
The reason why I advise not to say that all traders are gambling is that it's a defeatist attitude and it's unhealthy. How can you be a professional gambler? How can you be a skilled gambler? The question contradicts itself.

I'm not saying that trading makes one a trader and that's a title one should go by. I'm saying that trading isn't gambling, however, you can gamble your money away. One can only hope when they gamble, and hope is a very dangerous thing in the markets. It's funny, too, because gambling is hopeless.

Edit: Maybe now it's fixed. Yep!
Play the players, not the cards.
  • #53
  • Jan 16, 2013 5:06pm Jan 16, 2013 5:06pm
Quoting Patience
I wholeheartedly agree with you. It seems that on this forum people have a hang-up about the word gambler though.

The word trader gets thrown around this forum a lot like it's something special in this world. It's not. I have far more admiration for someone that is running a successful business with employees than someone who sits at home in their pyjamas pushing a few keys on their keyboard.


Quoting endroute
I find it quite comical that there is even a debate about whether trading is gambling, of course it is, end of story. The real question people need to be asking themselves is how can I do it professionally and how do I increase the odds in my favor so that I make money over the long haul.

The last I checked everything in life is a gamble and the only two certainties are death and taxes.
Interesting discussion here and some very good perspectives on both sides. These two posts seemed to jump out at me as I have a touch of experience with Patience's post and I happen to hold the same views as endroute.

As a self employed carpenter/woodworker for 33 years since age 16 (disabled in 2007), I appreciate the comment Patience made above but the truth is, it was still a gamble. Although I had control over the "actual work" being done, everything else was an unforeseeable event. The list of variables is almost endless so for just a few examples, every time I bid on a job I had no idea if I'd win it. If I did, I had no idea of weather slowing it down, other subs not being ready for me when scheduled, material deliveries being late (or wrong), employees being out for one reason or another, plans being changed without a timely heads up etc...etc...etc. So the truth is, even with the best "plan" in mind, the outcome was never a sure thing as to the job being a profit, a loss or a BE...LOL

Which is why I agree with endroute that the simple truth is, everything in life is a gamble and all we can do is our very best to try and make the best of the outcome. My business was much the same as trading in that there were wins, losses and break evens and all I could do was work to make the "average over time" be profitable. In the end I'm happy to say that I did but I was never SURE it would be.

So for me personally? I'd have to say I'm both because I now gamble at trading and I'm fine with that.
Ghost Rider - WWTBMD?
  • #54
  • Jan 16, 2013 5:07pm Jan 16, 2013 5:07pm
Quoting GnarlyPips
For the definition, you need to read the "NOT UNDER HIS CONTROL OR INFLUENCE" part. About this part of the definition, I posted this:

The reason why I advise not to say that all traders are gambling is that it's a defeatist attitude and it's unhealthy. How can you be a professional gambler? How can you be a skilled gambler? The question contradicts itself.

I'm not saying that trading makes one a trader and that's a title one should go by. I'm saying that trading isn't gambling, however, you can gamble your money away. One can only hope when...
Okay, if you want to think that your insignificant order may influence your broker's exposure, that's fine with me. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Personally, I try to keep it as simple as possible. I don't tend to think too deeply about this stuff anymore. It didn't seem to help my trading.

Whether someone wants to call me a trader or a gambler, it makes no difference to me. I don't argue about it with people/friends in real life. I just smile politely so that we can get onto talking about more interesting things.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #55
  • Jan 17, 2013 1:21am Jan 17, 2013 1:21am
Quoting BBPI_fxtrader
very good post. I agree

in essence, poker and trading are the same. you place a mathematically sound bet on an uncertain outcome which has a certain probability of happening
Very good dear, very useful to me. Happy trading!
  • #56
  • Jan 17, 2013 5:19am Jan 17, 2013 5:19am
Quoting Patience
Okay, if you want to think that your insignificant order may influence your broker's exposure, that's fine with me. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Personally, I try to keep it as simple as possible. I don't tend to think too deeply about this stuff anymore. It didn't seem to help my trading.

Whether someone wants to call me a trader or a gambler, it makes no difference to me. I don't argue about it with people/friends in real life. I just smile politely so that we can get onto talking about more interesting things.
Yeah, maybe my trades are countered by the triple 7's on the slots. Who knows how these things work...

Play the players, not the cards.
  • #57
  • Jan 17, 2013 9:45am Jan 17, 2013 9:45am
Quoting GnarlyPips
Yeah, maybe my trades are countered by the triple 7's on the slots. Who knows how these things work...

I was going to say that I don't know how long you have been trading for but I checked your profile and it says less than 1 year.

If you manage to last in this game you will have a lot of people/friends say to you (over the years) that this is gambling. Glorified gambling is a saying I've heard a few times. There have been times when I've had to say "get over it, so I can get on with it". I'm into my 4th year now using this market as my source of income (hobby trading for a few years before that). They don't say anything anymore but I'm sure there will be a lot of "I told you so's" if I come unstuck.

Good luck trader.
Nothing worth having is easy.
  • #58
  • Jan 17, 2013 9:53am Jan 17, 2013 9:53am
Quoting BBPI_fxtrader
in essence, poker and trading are the same. you place a mathematically sound bet on an uncertain outcome which has a certain probability of happening
You just described life itself.
  • #59
  • Edited 11:37pm Jan 19, 2013 4:09pm | Edited 11:37pm
Quoting GnarlyPips
In blackjack, all one can do is bet on how close they will get to 21 without busting, but making sure they are above the house. The house gets the advantage no matter what by the rules of the game. No matter what, even if you win, you will always be -EV every single time. The game is designed that way. There's nothing you can do that about.
Gnarly,

If you'd chosen roulette instead of blackjack, I would have agreed with you. With roulette, unless the wheel is physically defective (biased), it's impossible for the player to gain an edge over the house. With one 0 on the wheel, the house edge is approximately 2.7%, and with two 0s, it is 5.26%. The house edge applies consistently, regardless of the strategy, and/or MM, that the player uses.

Conversely, blackjack is the only casino game (that I'm aware of) where it is potentially possible for the player to beat the house. That's because the composition of the remaining deck(s) is constantly changing; when there is a greater number of high numbered (10 count) cards remaining, the player has an advantage, which he can exploit by increasing his bet size; with a lesser number, the house advantage increases. Ed Thorp's book Beat the Dealer, first published during the early 1960s, caused a furore because it demonstrated how blackjack could be beaten mathematically. Subsequent blackjack literature is replete with stories of skilled card counters who managed to systematically siphon five and six figure sums from casinos, before their play was detected and they were banned, especially during the 1970s/1980s. However, more recently, counter-measures like multiple deck games and early shuffle points have made life much more difficult for the would-be blackjack pro.

Re the "is trading gambling?" question, IMO it depends on how one defines "gambling". Even the 'perfect' system is prone to losing sequences. While the retail trader can control the amount at risk on any given order, he ultimately has no control over the way the market behaves, or how his wins and losses will distribute themselves. Unlike casino games, market probabilities can't be precisely calculated, and hence one's expectancy can only be estimated, within appropriate levels of statistical confidence, from past trading performance results. However, a trader whose entries/exits give him a a decent (estimated) +EV, and who sizes his positions conservatively enough to allow his account to survive the losing 'streaks', and thus allow his 'edge' to ultimately prevail, arguably has a fair chance of making an income from trading.

David
  • #60
  • Mar 16, 2013 2:18am Mar 16, 2013 2:18am
The Market is neutral and universal, it is depend on participators to do action with the market.

Trader see the market as it is, you need to follow market, If you want to survive and making money in the long run , you have to give time value of your trade , give time to make it growth , stack more winning positions, trade with low risk entry on lower time frame aiming for weekly trend return, manage your risk to minimum by move stop to break even on each growing positions , always expected the unexpected.

Please read this Best thread ever ,you will no doubt about this question any more

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=245149
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