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$1000 into $1mil (100,000% per year), stop making trading complicated

  • #81
  • Nov 12, 2012 8:55am Nov 12, 2012 8:55am
As the man said. EASY. You do not need an elaborate set of rules, you do not need someone elses templates. You just have to be able to recognize Divergence and Hidden Divergence. Total of 66 pips in this crap market.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: easy.png Size: 97 KB
Cut your Losers short and let your Winners run.
  • #82
  • Nov 12, 2012 8:56am Nov 12, 2012 8:56am
Quoting juicyt
Thanks for that PDF, that was well put together.

jt
Your welcome.
Cut your Losers short and let your Winners run.
  • #83
  • Nov 12, 2012 9:06am Nov 12, 2012 9:06am
Thanks for sharing this simple system.
I can recognice divergences, but When do I enter the trade? What about stop loss and take profit.

Quoting dee50
As the man said. EASY. You do not need an elaborate set of rules, you do not need someone elses templates. You just have to be able to recognize Divergence and Hidden Divergence. Total of 66 pips in this crap market.
  • #84
  • Nov 12, 2012 9:45am Nov 12, 2012 9:45am
[quote=billytt;6185780]
Quoting JumpJack
Anyone here think Rags will ever post his system??

divergence trading is an old system and a very good one. I personally think Rags charts are rather complicated and some of the lines do not actually go anywhere. But like i say it is a good system. It isnt for me i trade differently but if i actually do stick any indies on and see a set up re divergence it helps . Take care ,forget making the million.This way will pull in the pips over time.
nah, every line on my chart IS a divergence or hidden, except the aqua which is a divergence that was lurking that the market was too impatient to wait for.

anyway, ill post up a chart in a few with the late Asia and London trades, why i took them, and why i took the profit.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #85
  • Nov 12, 2012 9:48am Nov 12, 2012 9:48am
Rags2Riches started this thread, not me. All I am doing is re-inforcing what the man said. That said, here is a chart of last Fridays EU. Using just Hidden Divergence would have given you 3 opportunities to get into the trend. As for stop loss, where does Divergence occur? at a swing!!! so where do you put your stop loss?? I have attached a chart with a little more detail you should be able to work out entries from that. Exits of your own choice. Put this stuff on a chart and work it thru, you will be amazed at how quickly the light will shine.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 3 CHANCES.png Size: 102 KB
Cut your Losers short and let your Winners run.
  • #86
  • Edited 10:00am Nov 12, 2012 9:49am | Edited 10:00am
Quoting dee50
As the man said. EASY. You do not need an elaborate set of rules, you do not need someone elses templates. You just have to be able to recognize Divergence and Hidden Divergence. Total of 66 pips in this crap market.
very well done, i was just about to comment on how shit that market was. good thing i stopped trading it 7 hours ago right after London open. But you are right even in this shit market, there is money to be made.

you don't even have to be that perfect with entry. often the big players notice it a split second before i do, when i enter i often get slippage because they are just too good and entered a split second before me.

must be robots or they are just faster than me and theres nothing wrong with that.

use a 15 pip stop to be more conservative, 10 is a little tight unless entries are good, you can use 5 pip stop if you are very confident in your entry and give yourself 2 chances (10 pips of loss max in a day). thats very difficult though, chances of being stopped out are high (unless like i said, you are good with entries)


i will post my parameters for a trade again more clearly with the chart, but like this guy (dee) said, the rules for entry dont have to be that elaborate, just the risk profile. i personally try to wait for heavy momentum for my first trade of the day and wait for the hidden divergence.

After bouncing of 2700 from divergence, we hit 2720 twice and sold back down to 2700. This is because of hidden divergence which basically had zero chance of not happening because of the 35 pip waterfall that came before it.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #87
  • Nov 12, 2012 10:03am Nov 12, 2012 10:03am
Quoting dee50
Easy if you know how. Do it for long enough and they stick out like a ferrari on a second hand car lot.
lol! well said i notice them before they happen

also, when price gets back to moving averages, is typically a good time to be on the look out. that's all the EMAs are really there for on my charts, and to see overall trend
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #88
  • Nov 12, 2012 10:13am Nov 12, 2012 10:13am
nah, every line on my chart IS a divergence or hidden, except the aqua which is a divergence that was lurking that the market was too impatient to wait for.

Rags, i am not trying to be offensive. I see the obvious divergence lines but some of your later charts have lines on that sort of go no where.i am trying to back you up here, It is possible to compound up to a million if you have a half decent strategy, i am not 100% sure about this way but yes i agree it can be done. People reading can do what i did and compound until i had enough to buy a property refurbish it then rent it out. and as its in north london its not far off six figures. Take care with your trading
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #89
  • Nov 12, 2012 10:20am Nov 12, 2012 10:20am
Quoting billytt
nah, every line on my chart IS a divergence or hidden, except the aqua which is a divergence that was lurking that the market was too impatient to wait for.

Rags, i am not trying to be offensive. I see the obvious divergence lines but some of your later charts have lines on that sort of go no where.i am trying to back you up here, It is possible to compound up to a million if you have a half decent strategy, i am not 100% sure about this way but yes i agree it can be done. People reading can do what i did and compound until i had enough to buy...
i know you werent

not every divergence goes somewhere. thats why i often take BE trades if in the profit because if it doesn't go your way immediately, its likely a fake out

i appreciate the support billy
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #90
  • Nov 12, 2012 10:22am Nov 12, 2012 10:22am
chart from 11:25am EST

shows inevitable divergence (although in this case its hidden)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: MARKETISEASY4(m5).jpg Size: 187 KB
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #91
  • Nov 12, 2012 10:40am Nov 12, 2012 10:40am
Quoting dee50
Rags2Riches started this thread, not me. All I am doing is re-inforcing what the man said. That said, here is a chart of last Fridays EU. Using just Hidden Divergence would have given you 3 opportunities to get into the trend. As for stop loss, where does Divergence occur? at a swing!!! so where do you put your stop loss?? I have attached a chart with a little more detail you should be able to work out entries from that. Exits of your own choice. Put this stuff on a chart and work it thru, you will be amazed at how quickly the light will shine.
How are you handling the TPīs. Are you either setting fixed short distance TP targets or closing them partly 1/2 at short distance? Just wondering because the steady whipsawing trends(like the one in your picture from quoted post) will give tons of counter trend divergence signals while 50% of them are only good for what.. 3 to 5 pips? If not taken your profit at that time that would yet be another losing trade.
  • #92
  • Edited 11:11am Nov 12, 2012 10:55am | Edited 11:11am
Lol this got moved to rookie discussion

If I make the system more "clear" will it be moved back to trading systems?

I'm no rookie
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #93
  • Edited 11:37am Nov 12, 2012 11:08am | Edited 11:37am
Quoting Robertk
How are you handling the TPīs. Are you either setting fixed short distance TP targets or closing them partly 1/2 at short distance? Just wondering because the steady whipsawing trends(like the one in your picture from quoted post) will give tons of counter trend divergence signals while 50% of them are only good for what.. 3 to 5 pips? If not taken your profit at that time that would yet be another losing trade.
Most of the signals are good for 7-10 pips at least but you are right, some are not. If in profit a measly 3 pips and it goes back to BE, I will get out. There will be a better trade later.

If I enter and it immediately goes against me, thats when I let my stop get taken out.

The odds of a 35 pip waterfall reversing 35 pips are slim to none. The odds it makes a lower low, or at least retests the lows (typically at least 10 pips of movement), then its worth the trade.

I hesitate to not take the profit when I see divergence.

This charts a little messy but I tried to show it as best as I can.


edit: the one that says short again @ 15 after m1 divergence, i mean hidden divergence. i knew it would at least go retest the lows @ 10.
it ended up going farther than that

this isnt every trade i took, i took a few in late asia on the run up to 2736


one more thing, when i take a divergence trade, i typically dont target more than half of what i would on a hidden divergence. the long @ 04 ran into hidden anyway, no better reason to close it @2710, it then dipped down to 98, i got long @ 02, and held it up to 20 but didn't take the profit. to be honest, i missed that inevitable divergence... i didnt think it was going to matter. i let greed get the best of me and suffered the consequences of only getting 5 pips profit.

it always matters.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 11-12-2012(m5recap).jpg Size: 243 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: MARKETISEASY4(m5).jpg Size: 187 KB
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #94
  • Nov 12, 2012 2:55pm Nov 12, 2012 2:55pm
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
Most of the signals are good for 7-10 pips at least but you are right, some are not. If in profit a measly 3 pips and it goes back to BE, I will get out. There will be a better trade later.

If I enter and it immediately goes against me, thats when I let my stop get taken out.

The odds of a 35 pip waterfall reversing 35 pips are slim to none. The odds it makes a lower low, or at least retests the lows (typically at least 10 pips of movement), then its worth the trade.

I hesitate to not take the profit when I see divergence.

This charts a little...
To me it looks like you closed a few positions too early considering you are able to pick tops and bottoms with this system. Perhaps its an idea to cover your stops when price hit about 5-10 pips in profit? Close 1/2 and let the rest run. Like I mentioned before I also used a similar method before but had problems in certain types of markets. Markets that invalidate a lot of these trades. Quick change in momentum at key levels however always gave me enough order flow to cover stops. I tried to cover my stops in these scenario's. Free ticket basically. Just my experience with it
  • #95
  • Nov 12, 2012 3:31pm Nov 12, 2012 3:31pm
I understand regular and hidden divergence but not "inevitable" divergence
because where you draw the aqua "inevitable" divergence, there is no divergence.

What is your criteria for what you call "inevitable divergence" ?
  • #96
  • Nov 12, 2012 3:52pm Nov 12, 2012 3:52pm
Quoting fxtr51
I understand regular and hidden divergence but not "inevitable" divergence
because where you draw the aqua "inevitable" divergence, there is no divergence.

What is your criteria for what you call "inevitable divergence" ?
theres no official term

just something i came up with when the market is essentially guaranteed to put in a divergence. why wait for the price to move a few pips higher/lower to actually put in the hidden or divergence? that's the markets mentality with these anyway. they will just enter early because they know if it doesn't happen then, it will happen in a minute or two.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #97
  • Nov 12, 2012 3:55pm Nov 12, 2012 3:55pm
Quoting Robertk
To me it looks like you closed a few positions too early considering you are able to pick tops and bottoms with this system. Perhaps its an idea to cover your stops when price hit about 5-10 pips in profit? Close 1/2 and let the rest run. Like I mentioned before I also used a similar method before but had problems in certain types of markets. Markets that invalidate a lot of these trades. Quick change in momentum at key levels however always gave me enough order flow to cover stops. I tried to cover my stops in these scenario's. Free ticket basically....
The first trade I try not to close early, but once up 15 pips or so, taking 5-7 pips when i think there might be chance of losing the profit is a no brainer, for me anyway

anyway im not perfect, the goal is profit not perfection

often when i dont take it, the market takes the profit i had away me. so im just sticking with what works

ideally though, you would trade a divergence and not take a profit until hidden divergence, and vise versa, which is what i did for about half the trades, just not the last few


even inter bank traders aim for 10-20 pips a day and walk away (at least this one does)

i used to think i had to make 50+ pips everyday

Inserted Video





note how he says "as usual im going in early" (something i like to do, especially when HIDDEN divergence is inevitable, which means the price is at least 10 pips away from the high it needs to break to NOT put in that hidden divergence)
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #98
  • Nov 12, 2012 4:15pm Nov 12, 2012 4:15pm
Quoting Rag2RichesFX

even inter bank traders aim for 10-20 pips a day and walk away (at least this one does)
yeah exactly, that's my mindset as well. I used to think that one should continue trading when this amount is reached considering your system will still be available to exploit all the market efficiencies out there. Anyway, that would disregard the mental state of mind. I checked back a couple of weeks/months just to see that if I would quit at a steady 10 to 30 a day my account would have had a nice growth. Now its at BE last couple of weeks/months because I often lose it all later in these days. Scalping with an average of 20 to 25 trades a day. Often too exhausting. 4h/10-30pips is my limit(unless obviously I get certain breakout for a runner). So I agree with that guy from your vid for that matter.
  • #99
  • Nov 12, 2012 5:02pm Nov 12, 2012 5:02pm
Not a bad idea to close half, i used to do that almost every time but now just prefer to close all

20-25 trades I used to do that too. Now it's at most 10 trades and usually around 5.

I'll be back later to hopefully have another good day

I'm very picky on the first trade of the day (usually want something that will give at least 15 pips, but after that I can take a few smaller trades no problem)

Yeah 10 pips a day for a year is 25% using 1:1 leverage (no compound). Plus I think it has something to do with confidence. If you can end everyday in green, it makes winning the next day that much easier. More confidence and probably better entries due to less hesitation.
Be hopeful in a winning position, and fearful in a losing position.
  • #100
  • Nov 13, 2012 12:30am Nov 13, 2012 12:30am
Quoting Rag2RichesFX
theres no official term

just something i came up with when the market is essentially guaranteed to put in a divergence. why wait for the price to move a few pips higher/lower to actually put in the hidden or divergence? that's the markets mentality with these anyway. they will just enter early because they know if it doesn't happen then, it will happen in a minute or two.
I understand that there is no official term.
On the screenshot where you put the aqua lines, the only thing which indicates that price will
fall is maybe that it pulled back 50 % of Fib or something.
The "inevitable divergence" then would be that you think that the price should fall.
It is an assumption and there is no divergence nowhere.

I am asking because I still do not understand why you draw the aqua lines.
Maybe others understand it and are willing to explain ?

Because right now I am trying hard to read your mind and try to understand how you think and
why you are doing it.

If you donīt want me or others to understand it, then ok, tell me.
It is your strategy and it is your decision to explain or not.
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