Attachments: Andrews Pitchfork (Median Line)

Andrews Pitchfork (Median Line)

#5,301
Oct 24, 2012 12:50pm Oct 24, 2012 12:50pm

big_pipin
| Joined Apr 2008 | Status: Trader | 1,231 Posts

^ ya, your p0 line needs to be drawn from a swing high or low... thats the way I understand it..?

#5,302
Oct 24, 2012 4:34pm Oct 24, 2012 4:34pm

xtsunami
Joined May 2004 | Status: who really cares | 120 Posts

kapital,

Thank you for posting charts, it was my anticipation you were heading in this direction. beeb has beat me to it and is correct, by moving the parallel to anchor on price action as in your daily euro chart, you have discovered action-reaction lines.

I will sometimes us an alternate "a" pivot if there is one near. Of course using a schiff or modified schiff is done the same way.

If you are looking for something to study or research, you may find the attached chart of interest.

fwiw,

xt

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#5,303
Oct 25, 2012 5:52am Oct 25, 2012 5:52am

kapital
Joined Jan 2009 | Status: Trader | 1,617 Posts

I thank everyone for their response.

I'm aware of how to draw a correct fork. My aim is to draw a modified schiff on a variation of a correct fork. A set of action-reaction lines can be viewed as a regular fork. All that is missing is having a fixed position for your P0.

"GIVE ME 3 POINTS IN SPACE IN TIME AND WATCH ME CREATE MAGIC."

#5,304
Oct 25, 2012 6:40am Oct 25, 2012 6:40am

xologeis
| Joined Sep 2009 | Status: Trader | 164 Posts

Quoting kapital

Disliked

I thank everyone for their response.

I'm aware of how to draw a correct fork. My aim is to draw a modified schiff on a variation of a correct fork. A set of action-reaction lines can be viewed as a regular fork. All that is missing is having a fixed position for your P0.

Ignored

Validity according to traditional median lines aside, you can find one reason for the point marked as X by reflecting/projecting the AB line on A.

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#5,305
Oct 25, 2012 6:48am Oct 25, 2012 6:48am

xologeis
| Joined Sep 2009 | Status: Trader | 164 Posts

And seeing as we're fitting our data to suit anyway we can make it fit better by using the center of the projection line. Voila, curve fitting in a linear fashion ;p

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#5,306
Oct 26, 2012 1:41am Oct 26, 2012 1:41am

pips4life
Joined Apr 2007 | Status: Trader | 1,016 Posts

Quoting kapital

Disliked

QUESTION:

Hi kapital,

When drawing a fork with an Alternate Point of Origin (APO) so that the upper or lower parallel intersects a significant pivot, how does one choose the best spot to place the handle so that a modified schiff can be drawn?

Ignored

I know you know all about drawing legitimate forks. But with this line of inquiry, you are confusing the issue here. By definition, a legitimate Modified Schiff can only be drawn one way, such that the MS ML passes through 1/2 the time-and-price between pivot A and B. You need a real pivot A! The slope is the very same slope you get by connecting pivots A and C. A simple trendline drawn from A to C happens to work quite a bit, and it's probably so because it's obvious for all to see. Perhaps it works because it becomes a self-fulfilling sloped line of support or resistance.

There's nothing wrong with drawing APO forks by adjusting them until you see resonance. (It's hard to trade with them because of the endless possibilities, but sometimes they work). If you want to draw two (or more) APO forks, then go right ahead.

But don't try to be so clever that when you push the button that says "Mod Schiff" (or some that just say "Schiff" but it's actually ModSchiff) on your program that you are doing anything other than just drawing a second APO fork. You can use your program to do this, but don't ever call it a "Modified Schiff"-of-an-APO-fork. That's nonsense. It's just two APO forks.

I've spent a lot of time experimenting with various fork derivatives. There are several that work for a few lines here and there (xologeis shows one of them). That said, the best forks are still the Andrews and ModSchiff. After that, in my opinion: The "Inside" fork is sometimes good, and the fork you get if you draw a ML through the midpoint between A and C (you get the same slope if you draw a line from A to B). Then probably the fork xologeis shows.

#5,307
Oct 27, 2012 2:48am Oct 27, 2012 2:48am

kapital
Joined Jan 2009 | Status: Trader | 1,617 Posts

Quoting pips4life

Disliked

I know you know all about drawing legitimate forks. But with this line of inquiry, you are confusing the issue here. By definition, a legitimate Modified Schiff can only be drawn one way, such that the MS ML passes through 1/2 the time-and-price between pivot A and B. You need a real pivot A! The slope is the very same slope you get by connecting pivots A and C. A simple trendline drawn from A to C happens to work quite a bit, and it's probably so because it's obvious for all to see. Perhaps it works because it becomes a self-fulfilling sloped...

Ignored

It's not about being clever...it's about thinking outside the box...that's when the extended discovery begins.

With that said....what is an inside fork? I have an idea of what you are speaking about but I will await your definition.

"GIVE ME 3 POINTS IN SPACE IN TIME AND WATCH ME CREATE MAGIC."

#5,308
Oct 27, 2012 12:45pm Oct 27, 2012 12:45pm

pips4life
Joined Apr 2007 | Status: Trader | 1,016 Posts

Quoting kapital

Disliked

It's not about being clever...it's about thinking outside the box...that's when the extended discovery begins.

With that said....what is an inside fork? I have an idea of what you are speaking about but I will await your definition.

Ignored

My apologies for the way my post came across. I'm all for "thinking outside the box". A lot of great ideas come from doing so.

An "Inside" fork is not one that I made up or discovered. It was referred to in other places that I found several years ago.

The "Inside" fork definition is:
Draw an Andrews fork. (I prefer to use pivot labels 1 2 3 as shown).
Mark the centerpoint between 1 & 2.
Draw a line from that point to pivot 3. That establishes the slope, but the line you just drew is the LML (or UML). The ML is parallel to that line, but is drawn half way between that line and point 2.

A completely different way to think about it is to rotate the original Andrews pitchfork, where the new Andrews 123 is 321. Swap pts 1 & 3. The new fork is facing backwards, but it is exactly the right slope. It's also twice as wide as an Inside fork, but if you add quartiles, the one closest to 2 is the ML.

The Inside, and several other forks (though not all) I've played with are here.

In the picture shown below, I've marked a few of the points of resonance with blue circles. I've also marked a few PRE-fork points of resonance in light gray. (That would be resonance to the fork that occurs prior to pt 3).

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#5,309
Edited 5:14pm Oct 27, 2012 4:35pm | Edited 5:14pm

kapital
Joined Jan 2009 | Status: Trader | 1,617 Posts

Thanks for the explanation pips.

Another way of drawing the inside fork you mentioned is to measure the length of the handle of the original fork and place it starting at the other side of the baseline. Then, take pivot A and move it to the end of the measured handle length. This creates the pivot C for the new fork.

I illustrate the above in the chart below. I also show your method of finding the slope of the fork using the AB midpoint.

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"GIVE ME 3 POINTS IN SPACE IN TIME AND WATCH ME CREATE MAGIC."

#5,310
Nov 1, 2012 5:52pm Nov 1, 2012 5:52pm

pips4life
Joined Apr 2007 | Status: Trader | 1,016 Posts

I've never given the following much thought, mostly because I never had the tools to experiment, but due to a recent enhancement I made to my "P4L PeriodCon.mq4" MT4 indicator, I can now create inverted charts.

The question: Is there a difference in pitchforks drawn using the same pivots but drawn on two charts, one regular and the other inverted?

Answer: Yes, there is a slight difference. The difference is more pronounced the steeper the pitchfork, and the more spread out are the pivots by price. The difference on these charts is just a few pips.

Why is this of interest? My MT4 charts are Cash FX prices. Some people draw forks on Currency Futures charts, and I'm interested to compare them by redrawing their forks. Obviously the specific prices are going to be one difference, and also the #hours on the chart since Futures are closed 5-6pm ET every day. But another small difference I hadn't realized before now is due to inversion.

The USDCAD is typical for cash FX. On Futures, it's 6C and is inverted, similar to iUSDCAD (inverted). A comparison is below.

I also did GBPUSD (which is just like 6B) and compared it to iGBPUSD (inverted).

The areas I focused on are circled in light-gray (Andrews) and light-pink (ModSchiff).

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#5,311
Nov 2, 2012 5:41pm Nov 2, 2012 5:41pm

kapital
Joined Jan 2009 | Status: Trader | 1,617 Posts

Your inverted charts show a concept I discovered at a point in my trading career. I'll talk about it at another time.

Now, what is the practical use of the inverted charts?

"GIVE ME 3 POINTS IN SPACE IN TIME AND WATCH ME CREATE MAGIC."

#5,312
Nov 3, 2012 2:34am Nov 3, 2012 2:34am

kapital
Joined Jan 2009 | Status: Trader | 1,617 Posts

The blue upfork and the modified schiff (white) of the purple down fork are definitely having an influence on price.

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"GIVE ME 3 POINTS IN SPACE IN TIME AND WATCH ME CREATE MAGIC."

#5,313
Nov 3, 2012 6:57am Nov 3, 2012 6:57am

olivierforex
| Joined May 2011 | Status: Just Call me Oli | 631 Posts

Quoting xtsunami

Disliked

Kapital,

Would you mind putting up a chart to illustrate your question?

Thanks,

xt

Ignored

Completely off-topic from me I admit, but are you the 'xtsunami' from the old days in MoneyTec circa 2003/04 (there is no option to leave a PM in your profile)?
Cheers.
Olivier

#5,314
Edited 2:18pm Nov 3, 2012 2:03pm | Edited 2:18pm

auxesis
Joined Apr 2007 | Status: (Latin: statūs), rank, state | 3,127 Posts

Quoting kapital

Disliked

QUESTION:

When drawing a fork with an Alternate Point of Origin (APO) so that the upper or lower parallel intersects a significant pivot, how does one choose the best spot to place the handle so that a modified schiff can be drawn?

Ignored

I have to admit that the last few days this thread has seen some great postings from some great familiar names, reminiscent of old times

Kapital, My take for what it's worth

As you know I like using APO's set to significant points, usually the first over/undershoot retest of the P2's median, basically your drawing a channel projected from the supporting/resisting angle of price.

Using the channel approach works great but it takes away from the timing aspect of forks, when using the original p0 point to measure from, when the "p0" or "a" point is moved to reconstruct the angle of the fork.

A couple of areas you might research is to move the p0/a point on the original vertical axis when changing the angle, the other involves actually rotating the fork to achieve the desired angle, this ones more complex, as you have to determine the arc/ellipse from p0 to p1&2.

hopefully that makes sense

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