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[QUOTE=james16]Yes Thats Exactly What It Takes. There Is No Holy Grail There Is No Free Lunch. There Will Always Be Fresh Blood For Those That Have Figured It Out And Paid The Price. Without Exception They Were Once The Fresh Blood And Almost All Of Them Found Themselves On Numerous Occassions In The Fetal Position. Angry, Frustrated And Dissapointed. This Business Can Freakin Ruin You. It Can Steal Your Future, Your Family And Your Sanity. Dont Put Yourself Thru That. The Only Way To Avoid It Is Put Nothing Of Value On The Line Until You Have Proven You Can Do It. Dont Open A 5000 Account With Money That Is Going To Break Your Heart If You Lose Without Proving First You Can Do It On Demo. Its Really Just Common Sense.[/quote]
Well said.
Take this post to heart (New Trader), if you don't listen to people like James16 and others on this forum, then you are done.
Ever since Jim started posting his price action charts way, way back, this forum has exploded. The reason? Simple, he tells it like it is, his words of wisdom, his patience with so many of us(me included) and his honest desire to help the "green horns" avoid the lure of easy, get rich quick ideas.
I think I can speak for many others too, when I say that, until he started showing us the light, there would still be a lot of us stumbling in the dark. That's no joke.
While I'm here, keep up the good stuff Jim, it just keeps getting better.
Thanks
Quinn
Well said.
Take this post to heart (New Trader), if you don't listen to people like James16 and others on this forum, then you are done.
Ever since Jim started posting his price action charts way, way back, this forum has exploded. The reason? Simple, he tells it like it is, his words of wisdom, his patience with so many of us(me included) and his honest desire to help the "green horns" avoid the lure of easy, get rich quick ideas.
I think I can speak for many others too, when I say that, until he started showing us the light, there would still be a lot of us stumbling in the dark. That's no joke.
While I'm here, keep up the good stuff Jim, it just keeps getting better.
Thanks
Quinn
I started out with nothing, and I've got most of it left!
what about daytrading off the daily/weekly charts?
ive been using jim's stuff ONLY.. not in the PF anymore but am progressing in my account. no indicators ..
what does it take? hardwork .. patience .. discipline ..
not doing anything and resisting the urge to put a trade is equally as important as entering a trade ..
love your stuff jim .. will be back in the pf one day.
ken
ive been using jim's stuff ONLY.. not in the PF anymore but am progressing in my account. no indicators ..
what does it take? hardwork .. patience .. discipline ..
not doing anything and resisting the urge to put a trade is equally as important as entering a trade ..
love your stuff jim .. will be back in the pf one day.
ken
Trade what you see, not what you believe.....
- #828
- May 7, 2006 1:57am May 7, 2006 1:57am
- | Commercial User | Joined Feb 2005 | 2,875 Posts
what about daytrading off the daily/weekly charts?
ive been using jim's stuff ONLY.. not in the PF anymore but am progressing in my account. no indicators ..
what does it take? hardwork .. patience .. discipline ..
not doing anything and resisting the urge to put a trade is equally as important as entering a trade ..
love your stuff jim .. will be back in the pf one day.
ken
LOL. good one ken. thanks man.
- #831
- Edited 12:49am May 10, 2006 12:22am | Edited 12:49am
- | Commercial User | Joined Feb 2005 | 2,875 Posts
Hello,
I'd like to say thank you to James for this wonderfull thread!
A part of me feels like kicking myself in the head, because (no offence intended) the elements of the puzzle aren't new to me. Even more so, the signs are clear and readable by all!
I have read about hammer or hanging man candles (pin bars), about bullish and bearish engulfing. I've tried heaps and heaps of indicators/candlestick patterns/MA's/SAR/MACD/etc.. And imho there lies the danger.
I simply couldn't "see the forest behind the trees" anymore. And at those moments one's brain starts to go in overdrive, trying this and that, one day having luck and other days bad luck. Judging one technique a winner after a few good trades, or discarding another after a failed move. And then -without realising- you start to loose faith in sense, and emotions start to whisper into your ear.. This *could* be a breakout wainting to happen. Just look at that and that indicator. Ignore the other ones. This is the moment where you can regain your losses! Should I or shouldn't I? Don't wait to long or you'll miss it! Banzai! Jumped in, and then there is little left but the sound of shattering dreams as the breakout didn't occur and the "OMG, why am I so unlucky?"
feeling. (Does this make your stumach turn just by reliving old memories? )
(BTW, just pointing out that I am talking about the really dark moments. This happens occasionally. Sadly, those days/moments costs so much that most of the time you are trying to make up for past mistakes. If this is all the time, you're gone in a week imho)
Anyway, back on topic: As I was saying.. The wide range of indicators and techniques caused my brain to sometimes judge them all equally at the heat of the moment, worse, "gutfeeling", "hope", "luck" sneaked into the ranks of the indicators. Sure, when not trading, or when doing a demo, it isn't so hard to make a virtual profit. It's like everybody can shoot a rifle relatively well in a shooting gallery, but there is a reason why the army trains their soldiers so hard, over and over again: So that at the moment of stress you can fall back to routines and drilled-in thinking.
The only way to do that is by learning, reading and studying over and over again until the subconscience thinks in the same way as the conscience, so that the next time emotions whisper in your ear, your brain will yell back "Judge the signals! Don't trust one or 2 elements of your charts if others point differently! Look at the different timeframes, look at the candles. And stop whispering in my ear damn'it!"
:
Anyway, just wanted to get this of my chest. I think a lot of people remember those dark moments or are having them as we speak. Me, I have read this thread, and everything I saw has improved me a bit. I know fully that it will take a hell of a lot more to finally start producing relatively constant trades, and honestly.. Trial and error will cost me a lot more than joining the PF. Sure, joinging that group won't negate the trial&error part or the learning curve, and I know I will loose more before I find the correct mindset/way/etc. But I know now that without rerouting my brain, drilling it with info, I won't get there.
Sorry for the long post.. Don't even know why I posted all this. I think I just wanted to thank you James16 for this thread, by giving you a peak into my darkest moments and the way I thought. What's so good about that? That this prooves most of the points you make, and it prooves that this thread succeeded in the way you probably hoped for. (Showing it CAN be done but also showing it takes an astronomical ammount of time, effort and at moments grief to get there. You pointed that out by a lot of references to your own experience. Well, I'm thanking you by posting mine to show your message got through and was understood ).
L.A.
I'd like to say thank you to James for this wonderfull thread!
A part of me feels like kicking myself in the head, because (no offence intended) the elements of the puzzle aren't new to me. Even more so, the signs are clear and readable by all!
I have read about hammer or hanging man candles (pin bars), about bullish and bearish engulfing. I've tried heaps and heaps of indicators/candlestick patterns/MA's/SAR/MACD/etc.. And imho there lies the danger.
I simply couldn't "see the forest behind the trees" anymore. And at those moments one's brain starts to go in overdrive, trying this and that, one day having luck and other days bad luck. Judging one technique a winner after a few good trades, or discarding another after a failed move. And then -without realising- you start to loose faith in sense, and emotions start to whisper into your ear.. This *could* be a breakout wainting to happen. Just look at that and that indicator. Ignore the other ones. This is the moment where you can regain your losses! Should I or shouldn't I? Don't wait to long or you'll miss it! Banzai! Jumped in, and then there is little left but the sound of shattering dreams as the breakout didn't occur and the "OMG, why am I so unlucky?"
feeling. (Does this make your stumach turn just by reliving old memories? )(BTW, just pointing out that I am talking about the really dark moments. This happens occasionally. Sadly, those days/moments costs so much that most of the time you are trying to make up for past mistakes. If this is all the time, you're gone in a week imho)
Anyway, back on topic: As I was saying.. The wide range of indicators and techniques caused my brain to sometimes judge them all equally at the heat of the moment, worse, "gutfeeling", "hope", "luck" sneaked into the ranks of the indicators. Sure, when not trading, or when doing a demo, it isn't so hard to make a virtual profit. It's like everybody can shoot a rifle relatively well in a shooting gallery, but there is a reason why the army trains their soldiers so hard, over and over again: So that at the moment of stress you can fall back to routines and drilled-in thinking.
The only way to do that is by learning, reading and studying over and over again until the subconscience thinks in the same way as the conscience, so that the next time emotions whisper in your ear, your brain will yell back "Judge the signals! Don't trust one or 2 elements of your charts if others point differently! Look at the different timeframes, look at the candles. And stop whispering in my ear damn'it!"
: Anyway, just wanted to get this of my chest. I think a lot of people remember those dark moments or are having them as we speak. Me, I have read this thread, and everything I saw has improved me a bit. I know fully that it will take a hell of a lot more to finally start producing relatively constant trades, and honestly.. Trial and error will cost me a lot more than joining the PF. Sure, joinging that group won't negate the trial&error part or the learning curve, and I know I will loose more before I find the correct mindset/way/etc. But I know now that without rerouting my brain, drilling it with info, I won't get there.
Sorry for the long post.. Don't even know why I posted all this. I think I just wanted to thank you James16 for this thread, by giving you a peak into my darkest moments and the way I thought. What's so good about that? That this prooves most of the points you make, and it prooves that this thread succeeded in the way you probably hoped for. (Showing it CAN be done but also showing it takes an astronomical ammount of time, effort and at moments grief to get there. You pointed that out by a lot of references to your own experience. Well, I'm thanking you by posting mine to show your message got through and was understood
).L.A.
- #833
- May 12, 2006 7:48am May 12, 2006 7:48am
- | Commercial User | Joined Feb 2005 | 2,875 Posts
Hello,
I'd like to say thank you to James for this wonderfull thread!
A part of me feels like kicking myself in the head, because (no offence intended) the elements of the puzzle aren't new to me. Even more so, the signs are clear and readable by all!
I have read about hammer or hanging man candles (pin bars), about bullish and bearish engulfing. I've tried heaps and heaps of indicators/candlestick patterns/MA's/SAR/MACD/etc.. And imho there lies the danger.
I simply couldn't "see the forest behind the trees" anymore. And at those moments one's brain starts to go in overdrive, trying this and that, one day having luck and other days bad luck. Judging one technique a winner after a few good trades, or discarding another after a failed move. And then -without realising- you start to loose faith in sense, and emotions start to whisper into your ear.. This *could* be a breakout wainting to happen. Just look at that and that indicator. Ignore the other ones. This is the moment where you can regain your losses! Should I or shouldn't I? Don't wait to long or you'll miss it! Banzai! Jumped in, and then there is little left but the sound of shattering dreams as the breakout didn't occur and the "OMG, why am I so unlucky?"
(BTW, just pointing out that I am talking about the really dark moments. This happens occasionally. Sadly, those days/moments costs so much that most of the time you are trying to make up for past mistakes. If this is all the time, you're gone in a week imho)
Anyway, back on topic: As I was saying.. The wide range of indicators and techniques caused my brain to sometimes judge them all equally at the heat of the moment, worse, "gutfeeling", "hope", "luck" sneaked into the ranks of the indicators. Sure, when not trading, or when doing a demo, it isn't so hard to make a virtual profit. It's like everybody can shoot a rifle relatively well in a shooting gallery, but there is a reason why the army trains their soldiers so hard, over and over again: So that at the moment of stress you can fall back to routines and drilled-in thinking.
The only way to do that is by learning, reading and studying over and over again until the subconscience thinks in the same way as the conscience, so that the next time emotions whisper in your ear, your brain will yell back "Judge the signals! Don't trust one or 2 elements of your charts if others point differently! Look at the different timeframes, look at the candles. And stop whispering in my ear damn'it!"
Anyway, just wanted to get this of my chest. I think a lot of people remember those dark moments or are having them as we speak. Me, I have read this thread, and everything I saw has improved me a bit. I know fully that it will take a hell of a lot more to finally start producing relatively constant trades, and honestly.. Trial and error will cost me a lot more than joining the PF. Sure, joinging that group won't negate the trial&error part or the learning curve, and I know I will loose more before I find the correct mindset/way/etc. But I know now that without rerouting my brain, drilling it with info, I won't get there.
Sorry for the long post.. Don't even know why I posted all this. I think I just wanted to thank you James16 for this thread, by giving you a peak into my darkest moments and the way I thought. What's so good about that? That this prooves most of the points you make, and it prooves that this thread succeeded in the way you probably hoped for. (Showing it CAN be done but also showing it takes an astronomical ammount of time, effort and at moments grief to get there. You pointed that out by a lot of references to your own experience. Well, I'm thanking you by posting mine to show your message got through and was understood
L.A.
Thanks for the replies.. I honestly feel a bit ashamed now 
Guess I needed to get it off my chest. Both the "thank-you-for-this-thread" part and the ability to share the darkest moments too. The two goals served each other imho.(thinks to himself: Perhaps a "Daytraders-ananymous" self-help group might help too )
This is what bugs me a lot: People are sometimes to afraid (ego-wise) to admit the dark moments too. But by remaining silent about them, you give the impression that trading must be a wham-bam, you're rich deal. Okay, the "95%/99% fail" mantra is heard a lot, but personal stories of failure caution a lot more than an abstract percentage. I have been in other groups before in my life, and everybody acted like they were raking in the money. So much that you get afraid to ask a question, or people try to sound as complicated as possible. Why? I guess it is to save ego.
After being battered into submission by markets that don't forgive emotion I have concluded that this is the moment when I must forget ego and pride. Sorry if I am going to sound like a weirdo, but this reminds me of what they do when drilling people in the army (not personal experience btw), but they "break you down" so that they can rebuild you again in the correct way.
Here, the breaking down will be my ego. I must realise and admit that in order to make it in these markets, pride must go (*). Emotion must go. Greed most of all must go, as it is a catalyst for the previous emotions. Then, I must rebuild my way of think by reading, testing and patience. Knowledge and understanding is the only way to go. Getting kicks NOT out of money/pride/etc, but by avoiding bad trades, by making a call, not trading it and being able to tell why it failed (or why it succeeded). When the time comes that this is a second nature, then I can add the money as a nice side-effect, not the main reason for the trading.
This thread didn't make me think this, nor did these thoughts occur overnight. They have been lurking inside for some time now. But I think it would have took a lot more time for them to get the upperhand if I didn't read this thread. Time, but also money, and I don't like the prospect of buring another account
L.A.
(*) Pride and ego in the traditional sense, measured by how much money trades produce.
Guess I needed to get it off my chest. Both the "thank-you-for-this-thread" part and the ability to share the darkest moments too. The two goals served each other imho.(thinks to himself: Perhaps a "Daytraders-ananymous" self-help group might help too
)This is what bugs me a lot: People are sometimes to afraid (ego-wise) to admit the dark moments too. But by remaining silent about them, you give the impression that trading must be a wham-bam, you're rich deal. Okay, the "95%/99% fail" mantra is heard a lot, but personal stories of failure caution a lot more than an abstract percentage. I have been in other groups before in my life, and everybody acted like they were raking in the money. So much that you get afraid to ask a question, or people try to sound as complicated as possible. Why? I guess it is to save ego.
After being battered into submission by markets that don't forgive emotion I have concluded that this is the moment when I must forget ego and pride. Sorry if I am going to sound like a weirdo, but this reminds me of what they do when drilling people in the army (not personal experience btw), but they "break you down" so that they can rebuild you again in the correct way.
Here, the breaking down will be my ego. I must realise and admit that in order to make it in these markets, pride must go (*). Emotion must go. Greed most of all must go, as it is a catalyst for the previous emotions. Then, I must rebuild my way of think by reading, testing and patience. Knowledge and understanding is the only way to go. Getting kicks NOT out of money/pride/etc, but by avoiding bad trades, by making a call, not trading it and being able to tell why it failed (or why it succeeded). When the time comes that this is a second nature, then I can add the money as a nice side-effect, not the main reason for the trading.
This thread didn't make me think this, nor did these thoughts occur overnight. They have been lurking inside for some time now. But I think it would have took a lot more time for them to get the upperhand if I didn't read this thread. Time, but also money, and I don't like the prospect of buring another account
L.A.
(*) Pride and ego in the traditional sense, measured by how much money trades produce.
- #836
- May 12, 2006 8:58am May 12, 2006 8:58am
Nice post again L.A.
You're right, we are all undergoing training right now.
I don't even care how long it takes (well, I'm exaggerating here... of course I want it as soon as possible ) to succeed in this, but I'm determined to do so.
Thanks for sharing your stories.
East
You're right, we are all undergoing training right now.
I don't even care how long it takes (well, I'm exaggerating here... of course I want it as soon as possible
) to succeed in this, but I'm determined to do so.Thanks for sharing your stories.
East
Hello everybody.
I can't find the post where I promised to post an "update" after joining the PF, but this thread is the ideal place for it anyway, so I'll just post it here:
I joined the PF like 2 weeks ago, and I just wanted to say that this is a true Walhalla for me. A few of the technicalities I already knew from internet/books/etc, but a lot I didn't know about price action. What's more, the patterns I knew, I didn't use correctly. (Having problems translating what I want to say in English). The rifleshot attidue, the placing of stops, the risk calculation, the examples to learn from..
You could say that you could join, print everything and get out, but for me the attitude is what makes the difference! And that is essential to good trading. You might know the patterns, but without guidance and examples, it is as usefull as doing surgery with a surgeons knife while being blindfolded.
Since I made the decision I posted about in this thread, I have been maily demoing, but also doing some rifleshot real trades. I have traded (tried to trade) several times in my life, and always it has been a steady decline leading towards burning my account or having to redeposit. Before joining the PF, I was down again with my 3K account to 2.7K euro and losing a large percentage of my trades. Small lots, but a steady decline. Now you could wonder why I am posting this.. You want cold hard facts right? Well, I am back on 3K now, and have earned my PF cost while I was at it!
Okay, lucky shots perhaps. Well, technically they are: There is always a risk that a pattern won't work, but it is just the priceaction, the moneymanagement, stops placements and calmness from the PF that makes the losses tiny, but the gains big.
I don't want to sound as a commercial, but I am just so extremely happy!!! If I compare how I felt like 2 weeks ago or something, to how I feel now.. I simply have no words for it.
SO THANK YOU JAMES AND EVERYBODY AT THE PF!
L.A.
PS: sorry for shouting
I can't find the post where I promised to post an "update" after joining the PF, but this thread is the ideal place for it anyway, so I'll just post it here:
I joined the PF like 2 weeks ago, and I just wanted to say that this is a true Walhalla for me. A few of the technicalities I already knew from internet/books/etc, but a lot I didn't know about price action. What's more, the patterns I knew, I didn't use correctly. (Having problems translating what I want to say in English). The rifleshot attidue, the placing of stops, the risk calculation, the examples to learn from..
You could say that you could join, print everything and get out, but for me the attitude is what makes the difference! And that is essential to good trading. You might know the patterns, but without guidance and examples, it is as usefull as doing surgery with a surgeons knife while being blindfolded.
Since I made the decision I posted about in this thread, I have been maily demoing, but also doing some rifleshot real trades. I have traded (tried to trade) several times in my life, and always it has been a steady decline leading towards burning my account or having to redeposit. Before joining the PF, I was down again with my 3K account to 2.7K euro and losing a large percentage of my trades. Small lots, but a steady decline. Now you could wonder why I am posting this.. You want cold hard facts right? Well, I am back on 3K now, and have earned my PF cost while I was at it!
Okay, lucky shots perhaps. Well, technically they are
: There is always a risk that a pattern won't work, but it is just the priceaction, the moneymanagement, stops placements and calmness from the PF that makes the losses tiny, but the gains big.I don't want to sound as a commercial, but I am just so extremely happy!!!
If I compare how I felt like 2 weeks ago or something, to how I feel now.. I simply have no words for it.SO THANK YOU JAMES AND EVERYBODY AT THE PF!
L.A.
PS: sorry for shouting
I was going to make a reply, but it sounded to much like a commercial. Deleted it all and I am going to be frank: You can make off the PF what you want. There is basic and advanced price action stuff, stuff about placing stops, lots of examples, interaction, etc.
There is a lot about riskmanagement, a lot about trading mentality and psychology. There is discussion about systems. You can learn a lot by looking at what others do and think etc.
Offcourse I do think you have to be open to the PF itself. I can't predict what everybody will learn or how everybody will feel, but in my case, it was right on the spot. Just what I needed. Everybody should make up their own mind.
Just my thoughts..
L.A.
There is a lot about riskmanagement, a lot about trading mentality and psychology. There is discussion about systems. You can learn a lot by looking at what others do and think etc.
Offcourse I do think you have to be open to the PF itself. I can't predict what everybody will learn or how everybody will feel, but in my case, it was right on the spot. Just what I needed. Everybody should make up their own mind.
Just my thoughts..
L.A.