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Dukascopy

  • #2,001
  • Sep 1, 2012 1:24pm Sep 1, 2012 1:24pm
Quoting bimarpradana
hello are the ducascopy broker have metatrader 4 platform? how much initial deposit we can start to trading at ducascopy broker?
I think they have MT4, and as far as I know min initial deposit is 5000USD.
  • #2,002
  • Sep 1, 2012 2:33pm Sep 1, 2012 2:33pm
Quoting newbie168
Oanda/IB/FXCM/Alpari and many other US based forex brokers report to governments all over the world via US IRS under numerous tax treaties.

I'd rather be dumb and sit on millions of dollars, rather than be smart paying taxes and poorer.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8306/7...678f54e2f7.jpg
Agreed. Fuck those guys. It's our money. Do they pay us taxes if we lose money in trading? No they just take it when we win. If somebody wants some trading profits, they can TRADE FOR THEMSELVES, it's very easy to get an account. As for the poor etc, I'll help them myself. No need for the government to play god.
  • #2,003
  • Sep 14, 2012 2:12pm Sep 14, 2012 2:12pm
Quoting newbie168
[left][left][left]

Mr. Bellieres,

I have obtained information that the aggregate value of Dukascopy's USD account with JPMorgan in NY, either during intra days or end of days, is a huge proportion of the entire capital of Dukascopy.

If JPMorgan collapses, Dukascopy will be in great difficulty.

With regards to JPMorgan's London Whale trade, some bank analysts have pointed out that it only takes 2% decline in JPMorgan's total assets to completely bankrupt the bank. Given what's happening in Europe and JPMorgan's derivative exposure, it is not...
Dear Sirs,

On 31 July 2012, the account of Dukascopy Bank with JPMorgan amounted to CHF 4.5 million which represented 16% of Dukascopy Bank’s capital or 3.7% of its total cash. We let you judging whether this percentage is a huge proportion or not.

When analysing the creditworthiness of a bank you shall keep in mind the following elements.

It is usual that banks have a small capital in comparison with their total assets. At Dukascopy Bank, capital represents 21% of the total balance sheet (at 31 July 2012) which is high in comparison with many banks (e.g. 4% at UBS on 31 December 2011).

Another essential factor to be considered when assessing creditworthiness of a bank is the level of risk taken by it, that can be expressed by the ratio between eligible capital and capital requirements calculated in accordance with Basel II rules. At Dukascopy Bank, this ratio amounted to 180.1% at 31 July 2012 which indicates a significant excess of capital in consideration with risk exposure. Risk exposure is calculated based on total credit risks, risks without counterparty resulting from assets such as software, operational risks and market risks.

However, it remains true that in the current financial turbulences, the risk of bank bankruptcy is increased. In order to tackle this risk, Dukascopy Bank has taken several actions such as depositing over 65% of its cash with the Swiss National Bank. The rest of the cash is spread between 20 different banks. Other safety measures are in progress.

We remind that, as far as our clients are concerned, they benefit from the deposit protection as explained at http://www.einlagensicherung.ch/en.

Best regards,
Dukascopy Bank SA
  • #2,004
  • Sep 16, 2012 4:31am Sep 16, 2012 4:31am
Quoting Marv
Agreed. Fuck those guys. It's our money. Do they pay us taxes if we lose money in trading? No they just take it when we win. If somebody wants some trading profits, they can TRADE FOR THEMSELVES, it's very easy to get an account. As for the poor etc, I'll help them myself. No need for the government to play god.
You think like me

If we are all equal & are supposed to have the same rights then how is it that people in government have a "legal" right to ROB others but not everyone has that right! So much for equality!

If we are all equal then NOBODY should just be able ROB others!
  • #2,005
  • Sep 16, 2012 6:48pm Sep 16, 2012 6:48pm
Quoting r41225
If we are all equal then NOBODY should just be able ROB others!
Rightly said.

I belive you already know these websites:
http://marcstevens.net/
http://www.larkenrose.com/

If not, simply enjoy the content.
  • #2,006
  • Sep 21, 2012 11:22pm Sep 21, 2012 11:22pm
Quoting bellieres
Dear Sirs,

On 31 July 2012, the account of Dukascopy Bank with JPMorgan amounted to CHF 4.5 million which represented 16% of Dukascopy Bank’s capital or 3.7% of its total cash. We let you judging whether this percentage is a huge proportion or not.

When analysing the creditworthiness of a bank you shall keep in mind the following elements.

It is usual that banks have a small capital in comparison with their total assets. [font=Arial]At Dukascopy Bank, capital represents 21% of...
Thank you for your response, Mr. Bellieres.

As of last year Dukascopy had capital of CHF22million, perhaps now it has increased to CHF28million? Else, the CHF4.5million with JPMorgan would be 20.45% of Dukascopy’s capital.

Relying on the Swiss National Bank to manage 65% of Dukascopy’s cash (around CHF79million) is quite conservative, but that is not bullet proof. The Swiss National Bank is just another private company whose stock (SNSB:SW) is listed on the Swiss stock exchange. S&P has recently withdrawn AAA ratings of the SNB. As recent as 2010, the SNB lost CHF21billions, depleting its equity of CHF66billion to become only CHF43billion by end of 2010.

Many central banks around the world are now technically bankrupt because of the on-going crisis. The Federal Reserve, the Deutsche Bundesbank, the ECB, the Bank of England are extremely leveraged to more than 100 times of their capitals.

My money would be an insignificant percentage to UBS's capital, but it represents a significant percentage to Dukascopy's capital. I am sure Dukascopy has a lot o customers with deposits much more than CHF100,000 - the max amount protected by the Swiss banking community guarantee. We rely on your prudence to protect our money beyond those protected by the guarantee scheme.
  • #2,007
  • Sep 25, 2012 6:57am Sep 25, 2012 6:57am

Dear Sirs,

The shareholders’ equity of a bank usually counts more than a share capital. Concerning Dukascopy Bank SA, to the CHF 22 million share capital, you shall add the retained earnings, the general legal reserve and the profit for the current year which totalised CHF 5’670’380 on 31 July 2012.

As far as the Swiss National Bank (SNB) is concerned, it is worth mentioning that it is ruled by a special law (the Swiss National Bank Act) and that it belongs in majority to Swiss public entities. Therefore it shall not be considered as a usual private company.

Furthermore, more recent figures show that SNB completed the financial year 2011 with a profit of CHF 13 billion. We are not aware of any S&P rating for the SNB, at the time being. Whatever, you will agree that assessing the SNB’s creditworthiness means assessing the creditworthiness of the Swiss Confederation. According to our information, the S&P Long Term Issuer Credit Rating of the Swiss Confederation still is AAA with a stable outlook.


If we are correct, the Swiss Confederation has shown financial surplus in 2010 and 2011 for respectively CHF 4.2 billion and CHF 2.2 billion what is remarkable considering the current world economic situation that you mentioned. Switzerland keeps on distinguishing itself by its outstanding political, economical and financial stability. This makes Switzerland a safe place for your money.

We thank you for your trust and interest in Dukascopy Bank SA.

Best regards,

Dukascopy Bank SA

  • #2,008
  • Sep 25, 2012 5:34pm Sep 25, 2012 5:34pm
Quoting bellieres

The shareholders’ equity of a bank usually counts more than a share capital. Concerning Dukascopy Bank SA, to the CHF 22 million share capital, you shall add the retained earnings, the general legal reserve and the profit for the current year which totalised CHF 5’670’380 on 31 July 2012.



1. Can you post Dukascopy Bank's financial statements for FYE 2011 or interim figures of 2012?
2. If not, are you obliged by law to submit your financial statements to your regulator? Are your financial statements or key figures available somewhere?
  • #2,009
  • Sep 26, 2012 12:24pm Sep 26, 2012 12:24pm
Dear Sir,

 1. You are welcome to contact Dukascopy Bank SA directly in order to get the desired financial statements 2011. As required by law, Dukascopy Bank SA has published its interim figures at 30 June 2012 in the Feuille Officielle Suisse du Commerce, they are available online at https://www.shab.ch/shabforms/COMMON...archresult.jsf (notice number 6811180).

 2. All Swiss banks (except Private Bankers) are required to provide their annual accounts to anyone, upon request. Additionally, annual accounts and interim figures shall be sent to the Swiss banking regulator FINMA.

 Best regards,
 Dukascopy Bank SA
  • #2,010
  • Sep 26, 2012 1:03pm Sep 26, 2012 1:03pm
About the interim figures: there is little income from commissions - around CHF 60K. The bulk of the income (14 million) comes from trading activities.

Is this trading income purely from prop trading for nostro accounts? Or do you take risk on client positions? I would have thought the main income would be coming from commissions - since Dukascopy presents itself as an intermediary that executes trades on an agency basis. Questions over questions..
  • #2,011
  • Sep 26, 2012 1:32pm Sep 26, 2012 1:32pm
Dear Sir,

The trading commissions charged by Dukascopy Bank SA are presented as "Trading Income". The commission income you have seen is related to non-trading services such as "Transfer Fees", that's why they represent a small amount in comparison with the trading income.

Best regards,
Dukascopy Bank SA
  • #2,012
  • Sep 26, 2012 7:53pm Sep 26, 2012 7:53pm
Quoting bellieres
Dear Sir,

 1. You are welcome to contact Dukascopy Bank SA directly in order to get the desired financial statements 2011. As required by law, Dukascopy Bank SA has published its interim figures at 30 June 2012 in the Feuille Officielle Suisse du Commerce, they are available online at https://www.shab.ch/shabforms/COMMON...archresult.jsf (notice number 6811180).
Hello,

What you did is fantastic. Now we can at least get a taste of your financial standing. I do appreciate it.

1. Am I correct to assume your accounting year equals calendar year? If so you made a huge increase of 100% in your trading income. Congrats!
2. What is: underlying amounts under off-balance sheet financial instruments?
3. Someone mentioned a few months ago that the shareholders contributed their equity in kind (the software and know-how). I can't see this reflected in the balance sheet (intangible assets accounted for CHF 2.5 million at year end, which is nowhere near CHF 22 million). Can you comment on this? Was the share capital paid in cash then?
4. Do you also report cash-flow?

regards
  • #2,013
  • Sep 27, 2012 4:16am Sep 27, 2012 4:16am
Hello traders,

I am thinking of opening an account at Dukascopy but I am not sure in which base currency I should open the account.

I already have trading accounts at other firms in EUR and USD at the moment, the JPY is also a pretty weak currency in my eyes.

The choice for me is between CHF, AUD and SGD.

It's a matter of time before the sh*t hits the fan in Europe and the US (not sure which one will be first) but therefore I would like to spread my risk in keeping accounts in different currencies and different brokers.

Any advice or pro's/cons on the 3 options for me?
  • #2,014
  • Sep 27, 2012 8:00am Sep 27, 2012 8:00am
Dear Sir,

1. Yes, our financial year equals calendar year. However, as per Swiss law, the interim income statement was compared with the first semester of the previous year.

2. It is the underlying amount of all trading positions (currencies and precious metals) opened at the settlement time of the balance sheet date.

3. On 30 June 2012 intangible assets amounted to CHF 2 million. It is correct that increases of share capital had been contributed in kind through software (intangible asset). This software has been depreciated over the years according to the depreciation plan and now only counts for CHF 2 million. Through depreciation, intangible asset has progressively been replaced by cash collected from Dukascopy Bank’s income. Consequently, in the end, capital increases are fully covered by cash.

4. No, at the time being Dukascopy Bank has no obligation to publish a cash flow statement. However as you may see, Dukascopy Bank’s assets are extremely liquid with no investment such as securities in the balance sheet.

Best regards,
Dukascopy Bank SA
  • #2,015
  • Sep 28, 2012 3:01am Sep 28, 2012 3:01am
Hello,

I am very glad i have an account at Dukascopy.

It has some software glitches from time to time, but nothing that wasn't solved w/ a change of the graph/pair.

It has good liquidity and fast processing. Good costumer service.

However, there is this annoying detail surrounding mini-lots: i like to upgrade my positions w/ mini-lots along the way, but i have been confronted several times by STOP orders being rejected by the interbank counterparty and being transformed into LIMIT orders.

The rejection of a 0.5 lot is annoying enough, but the market is what it is (i would of thought that the investors should be forced to assimilate any orders), but Dukascopy should implemment an option that would allow the client to choose not to have that order transformed from a stop order to a limit one.

Just a suggestion to keep us safe.
  • #2,016
  • Edited Sep 29, 2012 12:50am Sep 28, 2012 9:26pm | Edited Sep 29, 2012 12:50am
Quoting bellieres

1. Yes, our financial year equals calendar year. However, as per Swiss law, the interim income statement was compared with the first semester of the previous year.
My bad. So basically you made no progress as far as sales go. Your sales declined slightly and more slightly given the inflation.

I have no problem with this. Still your profit and loss acount looks sound, but a more detailed profit and loss account and balance sheet would be appreciated for a more in depth look.

Quoting bellieres
2. It is the underlying amount of all trading positions (currencies and precious metals) opened at the settlement time of the balance sheet date.
How do I calculate / estimate the traders' margin on this day? 'other amounts due to customers' less 'amounts due from banks'?

Quoting bellieres
3. On 30 June 2012 intangible assets amounted to CHF 2 million. It is correct that increases of share capital had been contributed in kind through software (intangible asset). This software has been depreciated over the years according to the depreciation plan and now only counts for CHF 2 million. Through depreciation, intangible asset has progressively been replaced by cash collected from Dukascopy Bank’s income. Consequently, in the end, capital increases are fully covered by cash.

Okay. No problem here. Standard procedure in business.

Quoting bellieres
4. No, at the time being Dukascopy Bank has no obligation to publish a cash flow statement. However as you may see, Dukascopy Bank’s assets are extremely liquid with no investment such as securities in the balance sheet.
The fun starts when one has opportunity to look at cash-flow statement, which I think you know well.

Labeling a position 'liquid assets'' in a balance sheet does not necessarily have to have factual grounds (just like labelling someone a 'Santa Claus' does not have to mean this person is friends with reindeers). One cannot tell unless more detailed satatements are presented. Your statements are not very detailed, but I suspect more detailed data are not required by Swiss financial regulator.

Well, in general the picture of Dukascopy I have based on the financial statements is very positive.
  • #2,017
  • Edited 10:42am Sep 29, 2012 10:30am | Edited 10:42am
Dukascopy has done a remarkable job at growing assets from its clients by 33% within 6 months. Let’s not encourage them to grow their sales

IMHO, cash flow analysis is more suitable for non-bank business. Since banks’ balance sheets are pretty liquid and can change quite rapidly, more attention is given to this aspect. Banks will always be able to fund its operation/debts regardless using its own money or clients’ money, and it is difficult to tell from cash flow statement.

One comforting aspect about Dukascopy's financial statement is that it is very simple and easy to digest, unlike those of big banks which are so convoluted that it has become quite difficult to asses its risk/financial standing.

It is interesting though to note that as much as Dukascopy wishes to label itself as Swiss, SNB considers it “foreign-controlled bank”, and not Swiss enough like UBS, Crédit Suisse, Julius Bär, Vontobel or Clariden Leu.
http://www.snb.ch/ext/stats/bankench...5_20_AuslB.pdf
  • #2,018
  • Sep 30, 2012 5:41am Sep 30, 2012 5:41am
Quoting newbie168
Dukascopy has done a remarkable job at growing assets from its clients by 33% within 6 months. Let’s not encourage them to grow their sales

IMHO, cash flow analysis is more suitable for non-bank business. Since banks’ balance sheets are pretty liquid and can change quite rapidly, more attention is given to this aspect. Banks will always be able to fund its operation/debts regardless using its own money or clients’ money, and it is difficult to tell from cash flow statement.
[font=&quot][font=Verdana]
One comforting aspect about Dukascopy's...
I remember reading somewhere here on ForecFactory that they started up with eastern European money. So I guess they are a eastern European broker with its headquarters in Switzerland. That explains why the swiss call them "foreign".
So, you think you have rights? LOL
  • #2,019
  • Edited 11:33am Sep 30, 2012 10:54am | Edited 11:33am
Quoting ForexOracle
I remember reading somewhere here on ForecFactory that they started up with eastern European money. So I guess they are a eastern European broker with its headquarters in Switzerland. That explains why the swiss call them "foreign".
Dukascopy was not started with real money in the first place. The software and system that runs Dukascopy was valued for CHF22million by an appraiser to form as "capital". After a few years of running as a broker, Dukascopy collected real money from its highly profitable operation. As one can see in its financial statement, just for 6 months in 2012, Dukascopy has added CHF2,809,703 to its coffers, of which CHF1,172,558 accounted as depreciation and CHF1,636,515 as net profit.
  • #2,020
  • Oct 1, 2012 11:15am Oct 1, 2012 11:15am
Quoting newbie168


It is interesting though to note that as much as Dukascopy wishes to label itself as Swiss, SNB considers it “foreign-controlled bank”, and not Swiss enough like UBS, Crédit Suisse, Julius Bär, Vontobel or Clariden Leu.
http://www.snb.ch/ext/stats/bankench...5_20_AuslB.pdf
Dear Sirs,

Dukascopy Bank SA (previously Dukascopy (Suisse) SA) always had its headquarters in Switzerland (Geneva).

Additionally, since 2012 Dukascopy Bank SA is no longer a foreign-controlled bank but a bank in Swiss hands as notified to us by the FINMA. The data you quoted refers to the year 2011. In this matter you may find an updated information on FINMA's website http://www.finma.ch/e/beaufsichtigte...s/default.aspx.

Best regards,
Dukascopy Bank SA
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