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  • #81
  • Sep 4, 2012 10:16am Sep 4, 2012 10:16am
Quoting endroute
Oddly enough I have never seen the markets change such that real price analysis fails and tried and true price patterns no longer work.
It's well documented that markets have the ability to become more efficient. Either you have not been trading long enough or you actually have a bullet proof method with those "true price patterns". But you can't deny that it is a risk factor for other ppl and they have to take into account before committing.
  • #82
  • Sep 4, 2012 11:02am Sep 4, 2012 11:02am
Quoting Arhs99
It's well documented that markets have the ability to become more efficient. Either you have not been trading long enough or you actually have a bullet proof method with those "true price patterns". But you can't deny that it is a risk factor for other ppl and they have to take into account before committing.
Having the potential to become more efficient and actually being more efficient are not the same. Its like me having the potential to have six pack abs but in reality I don't. EMH (efficient market hypothesis) doesn't take into account the human element and until computers start to program computers and people are completely out of the mix markets will never be efficient and therefore exploitable by the common man through what ever combination of entry/exit/mm strategy that works for him or her.
  • #83
  • Sep 4, 2012 9:32pm Sep 4, 2012 9:32pm
Quoting Ishaque Shah
Yes you can trade for your living but only if you follow the rules.
Rules are
1>Trade with the trend it can only be know if you are trading for a while new commers are difficult to know.
2>Trade according to your account(i mean your account size)
3>First set your daily goal.
4>Once the traget is hit get out of the market donot sit for more control your greed.
this is the ultimate for your sucesss.
[font=Arial]Then...
I think that the thinking underlying points #3 and #4 is fundamenatlly flawed and the thinking (not the adopting of the behaviors outlined in these two points) will lead to failure.

Why?

Because it ignores the basic concept of finding an edge and exploiting it in a systematic fashion. I firmly believe that one absolutely MUST approach trading as the Casino does gambling. The players are the only ones really gambling...the house is running a business, although both are playing the same game. The difference is that the house has "the edge".

Now...ask yourself this. If the house was on a winning streak one day, and vacuuming up player's money left and right, do you think that the casino manager would ever say, "Hey...we made a enough money today off of these people. Best not to test the wrath of the gambling gods and try to go for too much. Let's close up the place and head home until tomorrow."

OF COURSE NOT! This is why all casinos are open 24/7. Even on Christmas Day! They have the edge and their sole goal is to get players to engage in transactions as many times as possible.

Works the other way too. When the casino is on a losing streak, they don't close up shop. It's business as usual baby.

Anyway...the only reason to close down your trading platform when you reach a daily goal is because you either a) don't trust yourself and feel you might fall victim to overtrading or taking on position sizes which are outside the bounds of your system, or b) you harbor a superstitious belief that there are forex gods out there who don't take too kindly to small traders making too much money in one day and will find a way to claw it back if you don't take a break....but if you just wait until after midnight to start trading again, then the clock is reset on their wrath and you're good to go.

If you don't trust yourself, you're doomed to fail before you even jump through the starting gate. If you harbor superstitions, you're also doomed to fail. So whatever thinking underlies either of these though processes which leads to a conclusion that you should quit trading your edge once you reach a daily goal will eventually catch up to you and cause you to fail. It's your own thinking, not the market, that defeats you.
  • #84
  • Sep 5, 2012 6:55am Sep 5, 2012 6:55am
@tradista: i first read about her from a different thread (HSM) and then followed her in BOD. she's really amazing and serves as an inpiration to many binary options traders (specially for those who are unsuccessful). i do trade binary options but not yet that successful but i'm more confident with my trades and my strategy.
botsog
  • #85
  • Sep 5, 2012 7:38am Sep 5, 2012 7:38am
Quoting swingtraderf
Look at the stock indexes and fund managers. Most of them generate between 6-17% return per year and that is called outperforming their benchmark. Taking a 1K account to a 10K account in a year is a 1000% return which is a large increase. The only way to achieve this is to gamble and that is the only way for one to get hold of a large account. I will laugh at anyone who says he is going to make a steady % increase for months on end. I will give the man who says he will bet his account all-in a few times to obtain a large account more props.
Those fund managers could do much better if they weren't running over a $1B ,or $10B in many cases, in assets. The opportunities available for investment become much much smaller, especially if you want to use leverage. You can't target a 1000% return on $1B.... but on $1k, sure you can.
Small disciplines repeated with consistency lead to great achievements.
  • #86
  • Sep 5, 2012 9:34pm Sep 5, 2012 9:34pm
I trade only for supplemental income. To safely trade for good income you need at least 100k, but I make money every year.

I've been trading for ten years. The bottom line in forex is patience. You need to know how to get into positions, stay with them and then get out. A lot of people don't do all three correctly. Once you get a handle on all three aspects the money will come in. Patience is the big key, but you have to be patient with all three components or you will lose.
  • #87
  • Edited 1:12pm Sep 7, 2012 10:00am | Edited 1:12pm
When it comes to being successful at anything I think many people misses the whole concept of being led by joy instead of the future dividends of the endeavour they are trying to bring about.
I think trading is the one activity that will absolutely reinforce this basic principle of success. Struggling traders get sometimes so focused on making money that they don't even stop to assess their mindset and see if they are just trying to find a quick fix to their financial difficulties and do not even make sure that they at least ENJOY the whole process and activity of trading.

A series of losses can drain you down to a point where trading may even become a chore or just plain boring.

Just for the sake of discussion... if not in the outcome (the money) where do you find joy in your trading ?
  • #88
  • Sep 7, 2012 10:59am Sep 7, 2012 10:59am
Quoting tradista
When it comes to being successful at anything I think many people misses the whole concept of being led by joy instead of the future dividends of the endeavour they are trying to bring about.
I think trading is the one activity that will absolutely reinforce this basic principle of success. Struggling traders get sometimes so focused on making money that they don't even stop to assess their mindset and see if they are just trying to find a quick fix to their financial difficulties and make sure that they even ENJOY the whole process and activity...
I'm actually on the other side of the fence philosophically about this idea. I see it completely the other way. In my mind, work is work. It's not suppose to be fun. A select few get to do what they really enjoy and make a good living at it. The rest of us get to do something that we don't particularly "love" but needs to be done because it's how we make our money.

Let me explain. I know someone who always wanted to be a Marine Biologist. It was her passion. So she listened to all those who said "follow your heart" and did it. She found out later that Marine Biologists don't make a lot of money to start and that starting salary doesn't double or triple over time. Very few marine biologists make significant money. The result was that all the OTHER things in her life that she wanted to see realized that relied on income....didn't get realized. This created a state of frustration in her because she began to see her "passion" as something that held back her life as a whole. She began to resent her job. Not a good place to be.

On a personal level, when I was in my early 20's my best friend and I were really into snowboarding. I told him that I was giving thought to doing it professionally. My friend (who's blessed with these moments of wisdom) said, "Dude...don't do it. There are so many people out there who try to make a living out of what they love, but they find out that making a living at it is a lot harder than they would have though and all the other stuff that goes into making money out of your passion ends up turning you against it. You'll end up hating snowboarding if you try this. You should do something for your work that makes you a LOT of money and leaves you enough time to enjoy doing what you like doing. That way, the money side of things is taken care of and you can just pay for snowboarding and never worry about ruining it for yourself."

I took that advice and never looked back because it made so much sense.

A lot of people have expectations about what their lives should "look like" and then there's this other message floating around about doing what you love. These are often in conflict.

I tell people all the time that when kids become a senior in high school, they should have to sit down at a computer in the counselors office and answer questions about what they want their life to look like. They'll select pictures of the type of house they want to live in, talk about how many kids they want to have, select if they want to have the option of having only one income in the house, if they want to save for their kid's college and if so how much, how much time they want to take off and all kinds of other stuff.

Then, based on their answers, a screen would pop up with an uber-extensive list of just about every careers you could think of. Select any line and it would tell you all about the job and what you need to do in order to get started in it and general guidelines on success once in the job. Only trick is that any job that didn't provide the income or time off requirements in order to fulfill their life expectations would be grayed out. Unselectable. They don't even get the chance to consider it because it would interfere with their overall life objectives.

The result would be that someone might be in love with the idea of being a Marine Biologist, but would end up tracked to being a software development consultant instead.

Anyway...I don't find myself "passionate" about trading for any other reason that I believe it can be a vehicle for generating lifechangingly large sums of cash and can still be tailored so that you can enjoy family time. If I were to pursue my "passion" then I'd be fly fishing or hunting for a living. I just don't think that I'd ever be able to do all the other stuff in life which I'd like to do on a debt-free basis working those jobs. Things like taking vacations to nice places on demand, giving large sums of money to organizations I support, buying a nice collection of antique firearms, having a custom Harley, saving for college for three kids, buying a small farm and a small cattle herd, etc.

These things could NEVER be done on a "professional" fisherman's salary without taking on debt. But they can be done if I buckle down and become a disciplined trader who ovecomes the obstacle of an essentially "boring" trade in order to see my life goals fulfilled.
  • #89
  • Sep 7, 2012 2:13pm Sep 7, 2012 2:13pm
Quoting tradista
When it comes to being successful at anything I think many people misses the whole concept of being led by joy instead of the future dividends of the endeavour they are trying to bring about.
I think trading is the one activity that will absolutely reinforce this basic principle of success. Struggling traders get sometimes so focused on making money that they don't even stop to assess their mindset and see if they are just trying to find a quick fix to their financial difficulties and make sure that they even ENJOY the whole process and activity...
After a while I think almost any job becomes just that a job, something you do to make money. I have never had any job I particularly enjoyed and even though I never liked them I was always good at what I did. Trading is the same thing I don't particularly enjoy sitting in front of the computer for 3-6 hours a day waiting for a new 15 minute candle to form on 10 different pairs to see if I had a trade, but this week I made lots of pips doing just that. Its a means to an end.
  • #90
  • Sep 7, 2012 2:50pm Sep 7, 2012 2:50pm
interesting thread, i prowl around these sites looking for different trading ways or easier ways lol. i trade for a living and i make 800--1400 pips per week and i will not write that down in money terms but i do trade in gbp pounds. i also use less than 1% of my bank roll and i compound. Actually i just realised i do not make 800-1400 pips that is the compounded figure adjusted. I do not normally trade fridays but today is an exception with e/u climbing high. as for sitting infront of pc all day. when my pairs are running riot all day its a pleasure to sit and trade other wise i just visit the pc when i know change might be afoot or triggers triggered. Even though i trade pro i do work occassionly as a body guard before anyone mentions it, its good to look after people and be in the spot light. Take care everyone
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #91
  • Edited 1:44pm Sep 9, 2012 12:32am | Edited 1:44pm
I'm wrong. 1000 to 10K really is possible - just do the math. With the right system and the right mindset, you can net 10 pips a day (ON AVERAGE) and actually make it in the game.

I now realize that perception really is reality and as human beings our limits are only self-imposed. We should all dare to dream and achieve the "impossible".

Happy trading everyone
  • #92
  • Sep 9, 2012 3:32am Sep 9, 2012 3:32am
Quoting swingtraderf
You guys are delusional, itīs impossible to generate a steady income out of FX without having a few hunderd K in your trading account.
Quoting swingtraderf
Look at the stock indexes and fund managers. Most of them generate between 6-17% return per year and that is called outperforming their benchmark. Taking a 1K account to a 10K account in a year is a 1000% return which is a large increase. The only way to achieve this is to gamble and that is the only way for one to get hold of a large account. I will laugh at anyone who says he is going to make a steady % increase for months on end. I will give the man who says he will bet his account all-in a few times to obtain a large account more props.
Amazes me how many of these guys troll around here.. And how truly delusional THEY are comparing hedge fund returns with small-medium retail returns.
Reytarded...

These forums have the ability to cause more trouble than good if you fail to exercise discernment when it comes to who's 'advice' you take on board.

Trade well all! And ignore the tall poppy trolls
  • #93
  • Sep 9, 2012 4:05am Sep 9, 2012 4:05am
Quoting nhen
Amazes me how many of these guys troll around here.. And how truly delusional THEY are comparing hedge fund returns with small-medium retail returns.
Reytarded...

These forums have the ability to cause more trouble than good if you fail to exercise discernment when it comes to who's 'advice' you take on board.

Trade well all! And ignore the tall poppy trolls
The facts:

1) hedge fund returns = eventually crash. Time depends on a good marketing / sales team essential to get more OPM.
2) Small-medium retail return = mostly in the red and even shorter life span for all.
  • #94
  • Sep 9, 2012 5:32am Sep 9, 2012 5:32am
1st thing a trader should learn is not to get involved with forum talk or i should say be led by it. I just left a thread euro analysis where all the talk is anti euro and actually anti usd and they trade e/u lol. All the talk for several weeks was euro going down down down and the talk was big and you see what happened recently the euro went up up up and a lot of traders lost out. Do not ask me where the euro is going i do not care i TRADE the direction its going and yes i do fail at times.......
Dpen i showed a guy in the above mentioned forum how i traded Ģ20 upto Ģ600 by compounding the first trade is the hardest so it is possible to do what you say but i wouldnt hope to do it consistently, I actually compound a lot starting with smallish amounts(compared to bank roll) but i do have quite a big bank roll but i only ever trade using less than 1% of it. and like everyone says be consistent keep your head. take care all and happy trading
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #95
  • Sep 9, 2012 5:34am Sep 9, 2012 5:34am
I trade my own account, full-time, and I trade around my lifestyle rather than the other way around. I don't own a yacht , a condo or a merc, but I make a living, watch my kids school concerts, stress about bad positions and play sport badly.

The point is I can choose to do all of those things because I trade full-time.

If you are in trading to make multi-millions, good luck to you. I trade to give me time to live life, a lesson I am so glad I was forced to learn.
You can quit and they won't care, but you will always know.
  • #96
  • Sep 9, 2012 5:44am Sep 9, 2012 5:44am
you sound like me, i have 4 trader friends 3 of which are millionaires i am not unless the houses are sold. I am not sure if i could trade the same if i used bigger pip stakes to chase the millions but i am more than happy with pips i pull in. i could speak about this here for a long time because it introduces different trading strategies and yes i have been offered to work for pro trading companies but my time is my time. Take care and you have the right head , family is good
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #97
  • Sep 9, 2012 6:51am Sep 9, 2012 6:51am
trade forex for 2+ years and so far the loss is around 4-5k$ mark.Now i dont say its impossible,but forex requires huge discipline like in the army,make one mistake ant you end up with headshot,ive taken few hundred accounts to thousand and even made thousands in couple weeks time just to see them melt on one bad trade.so anyone starting do it slowly and small,rather trying to double your account every day,as i still do i know im an idiot but well thats life.
  • #98
  • Sep 9, 2012 6:54am Sep 9, 2012 6:54am
Quoting pinkiaiii
trade forex for 2+ years and so far the loss is around 4-5k$ mark.Now i dont say its impossible,but forex requires huge discipline like in the army,make one mistake ant you end up with headshot,ive taken few hundred accounts to thousand and even made thousands in couple weeks time just to see them melt on one bad trade.so anyone starting do it slowly and small,rather trying to double your account every day,as i still do i know im an idiot but well thats life.
hi buddy, you are honest. it is hard work but once you get there you realise how it should be. take care
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #99
  • Sep 9, 2012 7:37am Sep 9, 2012 7:37am
Quoting pinkiaiii
trade forex for 2+ years and so far the loss is around 4-5k$ mark.Now i dont say its impossible,but forex requires huge discipline like in the army,make one mistake ant you end up with headshot,ive taken few hundred accounts to thousand and even made thousands in couple weeks time just to see them melt on one bad trade.so anyone starting do it slowly and small,rather trying to double your account every day,as i still do i know im an idiot but well thats life.
Do you really swing for the fences and try to double your account ever day?
  • #100
  • Sep 9, 2012 7:39am Sep 9, 2012 7:39am
Quoting billytt
hi buddy, you are honest. it is hard work but once you get there you realise how it should be. take care
thanks
as saying goes if you wish for something really hard eventually you will get it just sometimes we need to slow down and take one step at the time :].
Gl to all who are trying to succeed in this business.
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