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  • #3,261
  • Sep 2, 2012 10:32am Sep 2, 2012 10:32am
Some quick follow-up notes on my post from yesterday...

~The EA and the indicator are 100% compatible. They will mirror each other in every way possible. The indi's hard coded 1:1 algo, and the levels where trades close and then re-open later, are also in the EA. If you are familiar with the Final Edition indi, then learning your way around the EA should be easy.

~The EA is structured to handle baskets of 1 to 7 trades.

~The various TP levels are completely independent. You can customize the spacing to anything at all. Or, you can attach these levels to FIBS (like Mer does).

~You can test the EA's basic parameters right now by using the indicator's diagnostic dashboard. The Quick Take Profit level of the indi and the TP1 level of the EA are one and the same. Since the idea is to get a basket of trades into profit as safely as possible, and since this can only happen once one of the trades reaches TP1, then it becomes clear that optimizing the levels for TP1 becomes the priority. Once you fully grasp this concept, then it will become obvious why I have been pushing the QTP setting on you guys for the last few weeks. Get this one level right and the rest of the basket falls into place automatically.
To improve is to change. To perfect, is to change often.
  • #3,262
  • Sep 2, 2012 5:15pm Sep 2, 2012 5:15pm
I'd appreciate if you could explain how the N value comes into play since I have a hard time understanding it. Your picture shows the top of the CZ to be at 0.998 and buffer is 2 pips so entry is at 1.000. But if we take spread(2) and N(2) into account, our trades would actually open at 1.004 and our SL is at the opposite side of CZ. But should first TP be at 1.029 instead of 1.031? And then once that price has been hit, one of the trades would close at +25pips and 4 trades would still be open. Where would the next SL be and would they all have the same SL?

Also, you said that all 5 trades would open at the same time. Is that possible or would there be a millisecond difference between the trades? I guess if they are even separated by a millisecond, FIFO rule would come into play and whichever trade was opened first would have to be closed first as well.

Thanks a lot!


Quoting forexhard
Since the indicator has reached the Final Edition stages, it's time to start prepping you guys on the EA.

Before I begin, I want to make sure to credit Mer for being the inspiration for this jumping stop algo, which I have named the 'N-Ladder'.

The idea is to create a basket of several trades all opening at the same time, but closing individually at pre-set TP levels -- i.e., 25 pips apart as shown in the attached pic. If the basket has 5 trades, then there will be 5 separate TP levels. If 3, then 3, and so on -- your choice.

At...
  • #3,263
  • Edited 10:03pm Sep 2, 2012 9:25pm | Edited 10:03pm
Tropics, you have it half right and half wrong.

The opening of the trade basket is of course affected by Spread. But the same is not said for the N value, which is a completely made up artifact that your broker has no part of.

The purpose of the N value is to create a small profit cushion in case price retraces into what is commonly called a false breakout. Without the N, the best you could hope for normally would be a break even scenario (once TP1 has been hit at least). With the N, you are guaranteed that the remaining 4 trades will do better than just break even. Eight pips isn't much, but over time it adds up.

The "Ladder" effect is due to the fact that the N value (eg, 2p) gets added to every subsequent SL level, not just the first. Spread is only added once, but the N gets added several times, causing each successive SL level to go a little higher, like a ladder. This detail is shown clearly in the one attached pic, in the red & black numbers being added to each level. Mer, who as I said was my inspiration for the N-Ladder, only adds his extra pips once, at the level where the basket opened; it was my idea to go ahead and add them to every level equally.

And remember, all of these inputs are optional. If you don't like the idea of the N-Ladder, then turn it off so that all that's left is the Spread/BE down at the first SL level.

Xux knows all about FIFO. I'm sure he has everything under control.

And if you still have doubts about the indicator or the EA, then feel free not to use them. SSBO is still a naked trading system at heart, and we still have members drawing boxes by hand. Maybe you'd feel better doing it that way too?
To improve is to change. To perfect, is to change often.
  • #3,264
  • Sep 2, 2012 10:01pm Sep 2, 2012 10:01pm
Thanks a lot for a thorough explanation. It is really a brilliant idea. I am all for using an EA, I just wanted to fully understand it first. I'd still like to understand the difference between the last two indicators and how this last one is different in regards to trade qualification.

P.S. I also wanted to point out that there is a thread that utilizes a very similar TP/SL approach:

http://forums.babypips.com/free-forex-trading-systems/45633-triple-threat-exit-strategy.html



Quoting forexhard
Tropics, you have it half right and half wrong.

The opening of the trade basket is of course affected by Spread. But the same is not said for the N value, which is a completely made up artifact that your broker has no part of.

The purpose of the N value is to create a small profit cushion in case price retraces into what is commonly called a false breakout. Without the N, the best you could hope for normally would be a break even scenario (once TP1 has been hit at least). With the N, you are guaranteed that the remaining 4 trades will do...
  • #3,265
  • Sep 3, 2012 2:05am Sep 3, 2012 2:05am
Quoting forexhard
...
The idea is to create a basket of several trades all opening at the same time, but closing individually at pre-set TP levels -- i.e., 25 pips apart as shown in the attached pic. If the basket has 5 trades, then there will be 5 separate TP levels. If 3, then 3, and so on -- your choice.
...
Just as I was thinking about how to scale-out you post this rather good idea. For those of us using manual trading at the moment (i.e. not an MT4 platform) one can simply open 'a basket' with trailing stops. That should be quite a quick and easy thing to do - and after the trades are in place add the different TPs to the basket members.

....still watching this thread, and thx to all.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,266
  • Sep 3, 2012 2:35am Sep 3, 2012 2:35am
Quoting Exodus
Just as I was thinking about how to scale-out you post this rather good idea. For those of us using manual trading at the moment (i.e. not an MT4 platform) one can simply open 'a basket' with trailing stops. That should be quite a quick and easy thing to do - and after the trades are in place add the different TPs to the basket members.

....still watching this thread, and thx to all.
I'm currently using ETX capital to manual trade but I think the EA will be the final tipping point for me to use MT4 live instead of as a demo to pick out my trades......onto broker research for me methinks!
  • #3,267
  • Sep 3, 2012 3:40am Sep 3, 2012 3:40am
Quoting forexhard
Tropics, you have it half right and half wrong.

The opening of the trade basket is of course affected by Spread. But the same is not said for the N value, which is a completely made up artifact that your broker has no part of.

The purpose of the N value is to create a small profit cushion in case price retraces into what is commonly called a false breakout. Without the N, the best you could hope for normally would be a break even scenario (once TP1 has been hit at least). With the N, you are guaranteed that the remaining 4 trades will do better...
One thing that I'm a little confused about is when opening 5 trades at the same time....aren't you setting 5 stop losses for each trade and thus your risk is increased 5 fold?

I'm sure this isn't the case, I get the closing out using the ladder thing...that's a cracking idea and will ensure we profit from the "runners" if and when they do occur....

But I can't comprehend the 5 trades at once scenario where price retraces and knocks all 5 trades out which as I have it in my head.....gives you 5 times the loss?
  • #3,268
  • Sep 3, 2012 4:59am Sep 3, 2012 4:59am
Quoting A.w.o.l
I'm currently using ETX capital to manual trade but I think the EA will be the final tipping point for me to use MT4 live instead of as a demo to pick out my trades......onto broker research for me methinks!
This is spurring me to speed-up my Java education so that I can port or develop an EA under that language.


Quoting A.w.o.l
One thing that I'm a little confused about is when opening 5 trades at the same time....aren't you setting 5 stop losses for each trade and thus your risk is increased 5 fold?

I'm sure this isn't the case, I get the closing out using the ladder thing...that's a cracking idea and will ensure we profit from the "runners" if and when they do occur....

But I can't comprehend the 5 trades at once scenario where price retraces and knocks all 5 trades out which as I have it in my head.....gives you 5 times the loss?
Technically yes, but in practice you would open 5 (say) trades with a total value that matched your risk level. When you hit TP1 you lock-in 1/5th of the profit, and if you never reach TP1 then the SL only costs you what you were prepared to risk in the first place.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #3,269
  • Sep 3, 2012 7:00am Sep 3, 2012 7:00am
The idea is to open 5 trades with your same original risk. Therefore if you wanted to risk 1 lot you'd open five 0.2 lots. This could work out nicely or not, depending on a lot factors. I personally will not use this option since it seems as though that most of the time it would hit my TP at 0.2 lots and then it would take out the other positions at a very slight profit. So it completely defeats my trading plan. I'd rather close out at my TP with 1 entire lot instead of just 0.2. What I might do instead is 2 trades, one at 0.8 and the second at 0.2 - or something along this lines. That is if I am able to adjust it. EA should probably have this capability.

Quoting A.w.o.l
One thing that I'm a little confused about is when opening 5 trades at the same time....aren't you setting 5 stop losses for each trade and thus your risk is increased 5 fold?

I'm sure this isn't the case, I get the closing out using the ladder thing...that's a cracking idea and will ensure we profit from the "runners" if and when they do occur....

But I can't comprehend the 5 trades at once scenario where price retraces and knocks all 5 trades out which as I have it in my head.....gives you 5 times the loss?
  • #3,270
  • Sep 3, 2012 7:08am Sep 3, 2012 7:08am
This is my first post.

I fortunately stumbled across this thread about a month ago and found the content very interesting. I have carefully read through the entire posts from start to finish and taken detailed notes along the way in order to understand the concept.

I have previously traded hand drawn break out boxes and this is why this trading method interested me.

I am presently demoing the system until I feel that I have fully grasped and tweaked it to achieve the best results.

What I have observed in quite a few cases is that after the initial trades are placed, the price returns to the box before deciding to take off.

I have 2 boxes that I am currently monitoring on the 15m charts, EUR/USD is presently 25 pips * 75 bars and the USD/CHF is 20 pips * 76 bars, looks like these could be interesting once they break out of their ranges.

A huge thank you to forexhard and the coders for sharing and developing this system, it must have taken a monumental effort to arrive at this point. The indi software is fantastic.
  • #3,271
  • Sep 3, 2012 8:21am Sep 3, 2012 8:21am
Quoting Torquill
This is my first post.

I fortunately stumbled across this thread about a month ago and found the content very interesting. I have carefully read through the entire posts from start to finish and taken detailed notes along the way in order to understand the concept.

I have previously traded hand drawn break out boxes and this is why this trading method interested me.

I am presently demoing the system until I feel that I have fully grasped and tweaked it to achieve the best results.

What I have observed in quite a few cases is that after...
A good first post.

You may have noticed that I discussed the eurusd and usdchf being highly correlated some time ago. You should decide to trade one or the other, trading both at the same time is like doubling your risk. Some people prefer usdchf as being less volatile.

Keep on testing

Larry
  • #3,272
  • Sep 3, 2012 10:53am Sep 3, 2012 10:53am
Hey Larry many thanks for the heads up on the correlation of these pairs.

I already understand that point as the Swiss pegged the CHF to the EURO a while back now and they do mirror one another mostly.

And as for taking only one of these to trade at a time, thanks as this makes a whole lot of sense.
  • #3,273
  • Sep 3, 2012 2:36pm Sep 3, 2012 2:36pm
fxhard: can you give us an idea when you think you will post the ea you have been telling us about. thanks for the great system and ind. the new ind is workin fine ......thanks lotapipps
  • #3,274
  • Sep 3, 2012 4:04pm Sep 3, 2012 4:04pm
i,ve been trying to trade your way for well over a week and its good but i still have a tendency to trade my way. it is very similar and very successful. Once i get off this boat and get back home i will post a few charts. I been trading usa oil mainly its life in the fast lane with that. Take care all.
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #3,275
  • Sep 4, 2012 2:04am Sep 4, 2012 2:04am
wait...wait...wait...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #3,276
  • Sep 4, 2012 2:49am Sep 4, 2012 2:49am
Just jumped on the GbpUsd upward breakout from the 30 minute chart but will be wary of the news in 40 minutes time
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #3,277
  • Sep 4, 2012 2:50am Sep 4, 2012 2:50am
Quoting joancb
wait...wait...wait...
I would not trade this. The CS is a little bit bigger than necessary.
  • #3,278
  • Sep 4, 2012 3:14am Sep 4, 2012 3:14am
Quoting Moreol
I would not trade this. The CS is a little bit bigger than necessary.
Horse for courses and all that, but it's under 24 so I would trade it
  • #3,279
  • Sep 4, 2012 3:26am Sep 4, 2012 3:26am
Hmmm . . . . . I am not trading it all. I have loaded the indi on 26 charts and having noted where we started from, will watch it's " self adjustment". Once it seems to be "calibrated" I will start putting the data into a spreadsheet and construct equity curves for the pairs and in due course make a selection as to what I consider the best charts to trade. This may not be the obvious ones at all as some pairs can have really substantial ranges during the day. GBPAUD and EURNZD spring to mind as they will exceed 300 pips for 75 % of the time according to one source I read, but I will work that one out later. Maybe the EA will be ready by that time anyway and I can make my retirement fund in just the one week. - I wish.

Excellent effort FXH. A large thankyou for your years of perseverence.
AltosT
  • #3,280
  • Sep 4, 2012 3:44am Sep 4, 2012 3:44am
Quoting Moreol
I would not trade this. The CS is a little bit bigger than necessary.
For me on the 15 min...this is absolutely trade-able. I've got an auto reduced CZ of 21.1 and 74 bars...exactly the sort of zone we look for...

You can take news into account.....I don't. Price will do what price does. I couldn't care less if the price shoots down and takes me out....i then have the trade in the opposite direction.

All too many times I've second guessed the market and missed out on when price flies back in the original direction. The more you sync yourself in with the system...the more you realise as previously stated.....the system is what it is, just trade it as such and avoid guessing what price will or won't do.

As I see a big red candle on GU now I have no emotion whatsoever. In fact my only reaction was.....ah big red candle...must be news...now what was that website I wanted to go again....

Green pips to all
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