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Renko and Rads

  • #21
  • Aug 11, 2012 4:35am Aug 11, 2012 4:35am
Quoting zamanib
Please explain this--
Math and multipairs has been making more sense to me for a while.

Yes - Tp is always a problem -- Almost every week(1day of the week) you will get 100-200 pips move in 1 direction- this you need to capitalize on

thanks for your input

What I have been doing with math and multi-pairs is a complete different angle only for "automatic" trading and totally unrelated to your proposed system ...perhaps my point in mentioning it was attempting to save you time in trying to find a perfect "mechanical" TP for yours. They do not exist. All come down to the "discretion" you could use to make a strategy going from Break-even to profitable.

Just trying to pass final results of thousand of hours of back-testing automatic systems.

I don't know about the indicator you are using ... but from the chart is your first post , it seem to me that would be ok to let the positions run until an opposite signal is triggered. But close only the position in profits.

example... in that chart you show 5 signals .. 3 sells and 2 buys ..rt?
sooo.

enter short in 1st signal.... enter long in signal 2, close the sell because is in profit. enter short in signal 3 ... close buy because in profit. Enter long in signal 4.. leave the sell open (it seem in BE or in negative) Now your are fully hedged. Enter short in signal 4.. leave the sell and the buy open (seems that none of the 2 have profits...

at that point you net is +1 short.

From there you could go 2 ways: Close the previous sell when the price was around 1.0525 (first up bars) .. fully hedge egain. Or simple wait until the next signal an close one with profit. Never keep more then +1 net between the buy and sells . Never close positions with little pips. (make it worthwhile).

I would assume that soon or later your equity would show increase and you could close ALL if you have too many positions.
.
  • #22
  • Aug 11, 2012 4:44am Aug 11, 2012 4:44am
Quoting zamanib
Nice Strategy -- I like the SL same as mine 3 blocks
Haha, yea when I read your opening post I was like "nice!". Take care and trade well.
  • #23
  • Aug 11, 2012 4:55am Aug 11, 2012 4:55am
Correction to my previous post...
I see 6 signals on the chart... one not noted by you.. it is a buy after the first sell.

But the principle would work the same and the results would be almost the same.

J.
  • #24
  • Aug 11, 2012 4:57am Aug 11, 2012 4:57am
Quoting jeuro
Hello Zamanib.

The TP issue is always a never ending history. I have worked years with renko and loss count of the times I have try to find the perfect one. That is coding the strategies, using several indicators and run back test. All what I have found is an optimized TP for the past data, useless for the future.

In general, all my testings show that all systems tend to be Break-even less spreads. Therefore the shorter the TP is, the worse the systems gets. So, yes, TP should be at least 30 pips... more likely 50 or at least 1:2 risk/reward......
Yes, at first glance renko looks wonderful, but isn't quite as easy as it looks. If you are going to trade it straight up with no filters or indicators you can still profit but will have to be patient as you take on small losses until the big wins come and make up for the losses plus profit. It helps to trade at times where high volume coincides with a support or resistance breakout or rejection. My advice if you want to get the most out of renko is have a second regular (non-renko) chart open as well. Mark major daily, weekly and monthly supports, resistances and trend lines. Don't have to draw many, just the closest ones to current price. Then only trade off renko when volume is picking up and price is going through or bouncing off a support/resistance or trend line. Then you are basically using renko to gauge price action to determine when to get in and out. In the case of this thread and the strategy on my website, 3 blocks in reverse.
  • #25
  • Aug 11, 2012 6:34am Aug 11, 2012 6:34am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Yes, at first glance renko looks wonderful, but isn't quite as easy as it looks. If you are going to trade it straight up with no filters or indicators you can still profit but will have to be patient as you take on small losses until the big wins come and make up for the losses plus profit. It helps to trade at times where high volume coincides with a support or resistance breakout or rejection. My advice if you want to get the most out of renko is have a second regular (non-renko) chart open as well. Mark major daily, weekly and monthly supports,...
To the Eye, Renko gives a more detailed and symmetric way to show price action... for manual trading it is better for me... but the biggest application is for automatic trading.

To me... supports, resistances, daily , weekly or whatever is irrelevant, the cold true is that regardless of whatever you call a price level in the chart , it has a 50/50 probability to go up or down in a 1:1 risk reward ratio when it reaches that point. ... but that true is valid for any random price, so what is so special about support or resistances?. It seems that everybody talks about them because... everybody talks about them.


What volume are you talking about? ... in the spot forex volume in not known? I would have no idea if volume is picking up or down.

J.
.
  • #26
  • Aug 11, 2012 6:46am Aug 11, 2012 6:46am
Quoting jeuro
To the Eye, Renko gives a more detailed and symmetric way to show price action... for manual trading it is better for me... but the biggest application is for automatic trading.

To me... supports, resistances, daily , weekly or whatever is irrelevant, the cold true is that regardless of whatever you call a price level in the chart , it has a 50/50 probability to go up or down in a 1:1 risk reward ratio when it reaches that point. ... but that true is valid for any random price, so what is so special about support or resistances?. It seems...


I agree.
There is no way to prove if support and resistance work, because no two people draw them the same. They are subjective.

You can draw a horizontal line on a chart, label it as support or resistance and price will either react to it or ignore it.

The same is true for any randomly drawn line.
  • #27
  • Aug 11, 2012 12:20pm Aug 11, 2012 12:20pm
How about if we trade - from 3am---12pm NY or even 2am to 12pm NY time

also -- enter position - buy or sell what ever come 1st from 3am then close the current position (win or loss ) and enter on the new signal -- then close then new position once the next signal comes -- do this until 12pm or once you have net profit of 30-60 per pair and you finish that pair for the day

Pairs eu gu au ej

give your input please

I just did a visual back test it seem to be profitable this way --- this will solve our sl and TP and for sure will catch a long run in 1 direction will will make up for the small lossess
PROFITABLE TRADERS ARE NOT LUCKY BUT ARE WELL PREPARED
  • #28
  • Aug 11, 2012 12:37pm Aug 11, 2012 12:37pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
I have a Renko EA attached at the bottom of my webpage, Renko. Instructions on how to open chart are right above EA attachment.
http://www.top-forex-systems.com/str...-systems/renko

How far did you get with this system - is seem good and log also

are you still trading this way
PROFITABLE TRADERS ARE NOT LUCKY BUT ARE WELL PREPARED
  • #29
  • Aug 11, 2012 8:13pm Aug 11, 2012 8:13pm
Quoting jeuro
To the Eye, Renko gives a more detailed and symmetric way to show price action... for manual trading it is better for me... but the biggest application is for automatic trading.

To me... supports, resistances, daily , weekly or whatever is irrelevant, the cold true is that regardless of whatever you call a price level in the chart , it has a 50/50 probability to go up or down in a 1:1 risk reward ratio when it reaches that point. ... but that true is valid for any random price, so what is so special about support or resistances?. It seems...
You cannot be serious? I think you will find many experienced traders agree that supports and resistances affect price action. Does every support or resistance hold? Of course not, but there is consistent price action behavior at these levels. When they don't hold after prolonged periods of testing, they break rather violently, normally. When they do hold you can expect price to reverse. Depending on the significance of the support, you can estimate the degree to which price will reverse. Even if you don't use S/R's to enter market, you should use them to know when to exit or stay out of market. I hate to tell you this, but this is pretty basic trading knowledge. Price also tends to move with relative ease when there are no supports or resistances "in the way". By the way, S/R's are created by sitting orders. Orders vary in size and quantity depending on WHO is placing them. If you don't think this is true then I suggest you stop trading now and read up on it. Supports and resistances are in my opinion the best way to gain an edge (excluding inside information).

As for volume, I mean time of day. You don't need to know exact volume to know that volume is higher during the first few hours of London session then it is after NY closes or Asian session. So knowing what time of day it is should give you an idea how much volume you are generally dealing with. Just like when it's a banking holiday. You know volume is lighter than non-holiday. That's also basic knowledge.

Geez, if I didn't know any better I'd think you are just debating me for the sake of debating.
  • #30
  • Aug 11, 2012 8:29pm Aug 11, 2012 8:29pm
Quoting zamanib
http://www.top-forex-systems.com/str...-systems/renko

How far did you get with this system - is seem good and log also

are you still trading this way
I have traded it and it absolutely works so long as you stick to the strategy consistently. Keep in mind that if you trade it based on small block sizes you can't stay awake forever, so you need to figure out what size works for periodical checking in (larger blocks). If you are going to trade it intraday (small block sizes), then know what times of the day price trends best for the currency pair you selected. I don't currently trade off renko charts because I trade mostly intraday and I basically see what price is doing same as if it were on a renko chart anyway. I just prefer to use candlestick charts for how I currently trade. But the logic behind renko is sound and can be used to trade profitably, especially how I described in the following post...

Quoting 2+2=4ex
Yes, at first glance renko looks wonderful, but isn't quite as easy as it looks. If you are going to trade it straight up with no filters or indicators you can still profit but will have to be patient as you take on small losses until the big wins come and make up for the losses plus profit. It helps to trade at times where high volume coincides with a support or resistance breakout or rejection. My advice if you want to get the most out of renko is have a second regular (non-renko) chart open as well. Mark major daily, weekly and monthly supports, resistances and trend lines. Don't have to draw many, just the closest ones to current price. Then only trade off renko when volume is picking up and price is going through or bouncing off a support/resistance or trend line. Then you are basically using renko to gauge price action to determine when to get in and out. In the case of this thread and the strategy on my website, 3 blocks in reverse.
  • #31
  • Aug 12, 2012 4:15am Aug 12, 2012 4:15am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
I have a Renko EA attached at the bottom of my webpage, Renko. Instructions on how to open chart are right above EA attachment.
I have downloaded the Renko Chart EA but it doesn't work.
When I open the File and Open Offline, I don't get the M2 Chart.

What's wrong?


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  • #32
  • Aug 12, 2012 4:38am Aug 12, 2012 4:38am
Quoting balouf
I have downloaded the Renko Chart EA but it doesn't work.
When I open the File and Open Offline, I don't get the M2 Chart.

What's wrong?

Wait for the market to open
PROFITABLE TRADERS ARE NOT LUCKY BUT ARE WELL PREPARED
  • #33
  • Aug 12, 2012 5:22am Aug 12, 2012 5:22am
Hello TFS.. No.. I am no debating you just for the sake of it ... not even debating at all but presenting finding of my own... not some opinion of some "experienced trader" somewhere in the sky... that is why I start with "to me" this or that. Not even sure if 10 years of trading exclusively the forex market makes me an experienced trader or not.. so, look at it from that light.
You cannot be serious? I think you will find many experienced traders agree that supports and resistances affect price action. Does every support or resistance hold? Of course not, but there is consistent price action behavior at these levels. When they don't hold after prolonged periods of testing, they break rather violently, normally. When they do hold you can expect price to reverse. Depending on the significance of the support, you can estimate the degree to which price will reverse. Even if you don't use S/R's to enter market, you should use them to know when to exit or stay out of market. I hate to tell you this, but this is pretty basic trading knowledge. Price also tends to move with relative ease when there are no supports or resistances "in the way". By the way, S/R's are created by sitting orders. Orders vary in size and quantity depending on WHO is placing them. What??? .. in "any" and "all" price levels sitting orders exist a few pips away... that is not what create levels of any type.. If you don't think this is true then I suggest you stop trading now and read up on it. Supports and resistances are in my opinion the best way to gain an edge (excluding inside information).

Of course I am serious. .. and all of what you described is absolute true for any given price on the chart, S/R or not. You can make all the analysis you want and still face a 50/50 probability of hold/not hold. 50/50 You being right/wrong if you take a position there or around there with any of your reasoning.

If you personally have found a way to predict that and make money with it, that is great. But I can almost guarantee that if you write down "all" the Analysis, discretion and reasoning you do at those levels, and apply it to any given price, or a specific time of the day... results would match.

If you are making money when analyzing the market at the S/R levels, you will make money at any other level you apply your analysis to. If you are not making money at the S/R levels, will not make money at any other level.

In brief.. it is "your" eye and discretion what bring the results.

Try some time... Take a chart .. pick a price some 30-50 pips from the current price, maybe a specific hour of the day... then think of that price as a S or R .... put all your attention to it , use all the reasoning you usually use ... and take a trade.
Do it for a week or so. The results should match of those you obtain doing the analysis at so called S/R .



As for volume, I mean time of day. You don't need to know exact volume to know that volume is higher during the first few hours of London session then it is after NY closes or Asian session. So knowing what time of day it is should give you an idea how much volume you are generally dealing with. Just like when it's a banking holiday. You know volume is lighter than non-holiday. That's also basic knowledge.

At the times you mention, maybe is higher, maybe not... that is the problem.. we do not know. We can only guess.

Two of basic knowledge of the forex market regarding volume: 1. We do not know the "Volume" of the spot market at any given time. 2. Volume has nothing to do with price changing. Forex is a zero sum market. Price can change drastically with little volume or huge volume..so, somewhat irrelevant for our trading.

It is the un-balance of units buy/sell that makes the price change. That is why "your btw" regarding sitting order being the reason for creation of S and R makes no sense. Once a sitting order at whatever price is filled that is the end of it. The balance or unbalance of the orders that "appears" (market orders) in that specific millisecond after sitting orders are filled is what will determinate where the price will go. And no one, not even the Banks know that instant unbalance.

Every tick is like that... the unbalance of the "units" of the market order is what makes the price move to where the sitting orders are. ..and the unbalance of "units" of the market orders is what makes the price to go from those sitting orders after that.. and like that for eternity.

Any tick has the potential to become a S and R level later on, and so what? when the price comes around again, the conglomerated of participants could be all different, perception can be different , etc ... and it is only when that huge conglomerate of participants start placing orders is when the price changes or not, and to where head up . .... as the market continue to un-balance and balance itself perfectly thousand of ticks per day. Sitting orders are the least part of the equation and can be cancel before are hit anyway.


Geez, if I didn't know any better I'd think you are just debating me for the sake of debating.

Anyway... Sorry Zamanib... this is way out your thread topic... but in that regards I think I suggested a very sensible approach to your TP issue.

J.
  • #34
  • Aug 12, 2012 11:49am Aug 12, 2012 11:49am
Quoting jeuro
Hello TFS.. No.. I am no debating you just for the sake of it ... not even debating at all but presenting finding of my own... not some opinion of some "experienced trader" somewhere in the sky... that is why I start with "to me" this or that. Not even sure if 10 years of trading exclusively the forex market makes me an experienced trader or not.. so, look at it from that light.
You cannot be serious? I think you will find many experienced traders agree that supports and resistances affect price action. Does every...
I like the Idea of starting when London open or a little before till 12pm NYt so from 2am--12pm NYT these times are when volume are higher then the rest of the time --
Also to enter the trade on the 1st blue or yellow buy or sell then exit the trade once the new signal come win or loss - keeping doing the til you are net profit 30-60 pips per day per pair -- suggested pairs eu gu ej au these have less spreads
PROFITABLE TRADERS ARE NOT LUCKY BUT ARE WELL PREPARED
  • #35
  • Aug 12, 2012 12:27pm Aug 12, 2012 12:27pm
I assume RADS is same as Heiken ashi smoothed ? Here is a pic of last christmas..my favorite time to see how system looks..in fact with one+ trade we dont see in screen it comes out BE or with little profit depending on SL/TP.
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  • #36
  • Aug 12, 2012 10:12pm Aug 12, 2012 10:12pm
3 pips renko will give you many trade in day -- try to target 21 pips sl 9-12 pips
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PROFITABLE TRADERS ARE NOT LUCKY BUT ARE WELL PREPARED
  • #37
  • Aug 12, 2012 11:20pm Aug 12, 2012 11:20pm
I trade using Renko chart manually for few weeks with good result. It is very simple system.

Setting:
- Renko Chart (4 pips)
- Parabolic SAR (0,05 ; 0,5)
- Daily & H4 Pivot

Long: Renko (green) crossed SAR from below.
Short: Renko (red) crossed SAR from above.

TP/SL : Renko crossed SAR opposite direction from the trade.

* Use daily & H4 Pivot, S/R, and regular candle chart for reference.

I am newbie, what do you think guys?

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That which does not kill us makes us stronger
  • #38
  • Aug 12, 2012 11:32pm Aug 12, 2012 11:32pm
Quoting zamanib
3 pips renko will give you many trade in day -- try to target 21 pips sl 9-12 pips
Do you mind to share your template to me and teach me how to install it? i trying find a suitable system to trade.
  • #39
  • Aug 13, 2012 1:13pm Aug 13, 2012 1:13pm
How can we prevent a few false buy or sell

Look that 2 chart by adding cloud - we could have prevent 2 false signal one sell one buy -- then finally got a good sell signal

Please come up with some good filters
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PROFITABLE TRADERS ARE NOT LUCKY BUT ARE WELL PREPARED
  • #40
  • Aug 13, 2012 3:25pm Aug 13, 2012 3:25pm
Zamanib...

Don't worry about filtering... When you filter with "other" indicator, you always end up filtering some good ones. So it becomes a never ending history

Take all the trades and do as explained in post#21
The exit is what makes a strategy profitable.

Take a screenshot of about a week of chart an follow along like in post#21 . Notes all the entries and where you would have exit.. count the net pips, deduct the spreads and you will see.

J.
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