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  • #50,181
  • Jul 16, 2012 10:51pm Jul 16, 2012 10:51pm
Quoting Balmain Boy
That's not hedging that's taking a loss !
Shorting higher up is a totally new position - and that's if it ever gets there .
I love traders like you - constantly in denial when you're wrong .
It's losers like yourself that have supported my independence & income these past 26 years !!!!
tought love message
  • #50,182
  • Jul 16, 2012 10:51pm Jul 16, 2012 10:51pm
Quoting Balmain Boy
That's not hedging that's taking a loss !
Shorting higher up is a totally new position - and that's if it ever gets there .
I love traders like you - constantly in denial when you're wrong .
It's losers like yourself that have supported my independence & income these past 26 years !!!!
There have been plenty of debates on whether it is prudent to hedge or not. Personally, I find it useless. It's actually worse than useless because it is costlier since the difference in swap between the two positions will always favor the broker. Therefore, if you are going to cover a short at price X and uncover it at price Y, it is better to just close the position at price X and reenter at price Y. Save yourself the swap!
  • #50,183
  • Jul 16, 2012 10:53pm Jul 16, 2012 10:53pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
There have been plenty of debates on whether it is prudent to hedge or not. Personally, I find it useless. It's actually worse than useless because it is costlier since the difference in swap between the two positions will always favor the broker. Therefore, if you are going to cover a short at price X and uncover it at price Y, it is better to just close the position at price X and reenter at price Y. Save yourself the swap!
I have no swap, no comission no interest, just spreads its not as bad as you think...
We live in a finite world with infinite possibilities.
FxTyrant M-Series (Live - Darwinex) All Time Return: 0.7%
  • #50,184
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:00pm Jul 16, 2012 11:00pm
Quoting bguguen
I have no swap, no comission no interest, just spreads its not as bad as you think...
I wasn't thinking about you or how bad/good you might have it. The typical trader pays swap and earns interest. With that said, in your instance, hedging is negligible as far as costs (unless your broker ties up your margin on both trades).
  • #50,185
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:03pm Jul 16, 2012 11:03pm
Quoting bguguen
I have no swap, no comission no interest, just spreads its not as bad as you think...
BTW, are you muslim?
  • #50,186
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:05pm Jul 16, 2012 11:05pm
Quoting palabara
I assure you, putting tight S/L is the furthest thing away from ruining your account, if you have 100 consecutive losses then yes... I've been trading for many years.. I have learned what works and doesn't.. I am not saying that particular trade was.. a gold success. At the same time.. the 10 pips didn't bankrupt me..

PA style is trading the Price Action.. Short term trading, but I wouldn't say scalping.. I think scalping over the years has lost its meaning.. and got confused with day trading.. back in the day an excellent scalper would be in...
Very nicely said!! You just save me from having to comment on it. It's not that hard to place tight SLs when you trade when the PA has hit a wall. If you are right and it turns in your direction, you pick up the pips. If you were wrong and the market goes against you,... the risk is relatively small. It does take alot of hours studying a pair to know it's pattern and how it responds.
I don't recommend it to a casual trader but can be very rewarding to those that have put in the time.

I had a mentor tell me years ago that he was happy taking little bites out of the market on a consistent basis with very small risks and I have been attempting to emulate his technique ever since.

I would hesitate to call it scalping as I might spend most of the day waiting for a specific entry, then load it up and pull the trigger.
Cheers!!

BTW... My short is no longer SL'd at BE but has trailed to +7 and is now locking in profits. Currently +13. I love a trade that you can't lose on!
  • #50,187
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:12pm Jul 16, 2012 11:12pm
Quoting DonL
Very nicely said!! You just save me from having to comment on it. It's not that hard to place tight SLs when you trade when the PA has hit a wall. If you are right and it turns in your direction, you pick up the pips. If you were wrong and the market goes against you,... the risk is relatively small. It does take alot of hours studying a pair to know it's pattern and how it responds.
I don't recommend it to a casual trader but can be very rewarding to those that have put in the time.

I had a mentor tell me years ago that he was happy taking little...
I'm keeping a close eye tonight.. I've got a bunch of markets and I'm keeping a close eye.. keeping it TIGHT and.. hoping to make it worth while so I can take tomorrow night off.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #50,188
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:13pm Jul 16, 2012 11:13pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
There have been plenty of debates on whether it is prudent to hedge or not. Personally, I find it useless. It's actually worse than useless because it is costlier since the difference in swap between the two positions will always favor the broker. Therefore, if you are going to cover a short at price X and uncover it at price Y, it is better to just close the position at price X and reenter at price Y. Save yourself the swap!
i think "hedge" word is not meaning like this in first place. hedge is like, if you buy bond, you buy a CDS as its counterpart. if thing goes well, okay, still profit, if not, then CDS will cover the loss. another example is buying option to hedge stocks...

in my opinion, using hedge which is long+short in same instrument is psychological destructive.
in short run, a trader can get a win and win exit to both trades... its going well in some small range of price.

but... if price is go one way very far, this trader will ruin his/her account.

as a personality who deny to take loss, they will only unwind one side which is profitable, while another position is in huuuuge loss making them more harder (psychologically) to unwind.

and we can guess what happen next. trying to hedge again, the distance (hedge) will get wider and wider...
  • #50,189
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:15pm Jul 16, 2012 11:15pm
Quoting palabara
I assure you, putting tight S/L is the furthest thing away from ruining your account, if you have 100 consecutive losses then yes... I've been trading for many years..
Sorry but that's flat out wrong, first of all you don't need consecutive losses to one day lose all your money, all you need is not having a profitable strategy and one day, sooner or later depending on how bad you are, you will lose all your money.
I can assure you again, trading with tight SL's will in the long run ruin your account.
Don't get mad, get even!
  • #50,190
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:17pm Jul 16, 2012 11:17pm
Quoting stulic
Sorry but that's flat out wrong, first of all you don't need consecutive losses to one day lose all your money, all you need is not having a profitable strategy and one day, sooner or later depending on how bad you are, you will lose all your money.
I can assure you again, trading with tight SL's will in the long run ruin your account.
Lets put it like this.. If you don't know how to trade.. your going to lose your money either way!
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #50,191
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:26pm Jul 16, 2012 11:26pm
tight SL is relative. it can means 30 pips, 20 pips, 10 pips or even 5 pips.

i think i ever saw a member at FF (trade_price) trade with tight SL. between 5-20 pips. he record some of his trade in youtube as proof of his confidence. i assume he is profitable but i don't know the truth because he not posting his trade account...
  • #50,192
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:26pm Jul 16, 2012 11:26pm
Hey everyone,

Was out most of the day but held the Short /DX position and still have it. Bguguen I could not agree more Bernake will put a temp floor in on the dollar at least throughout his speech and their will be those looking to cover shorts. But /DX is still a bit overextended from last week when everyone was building a position into GDP.. My short on Dollar is a longer play that will be materalizing within the end of this week to next week at latest. I do agree though taking a short on AUD/USD (/6A) at this level looks more than appealing and at a minimum we should be coming down to 1.0250
  • #50,193
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:28pm Jul 16, 2012 11:28pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
BTW, are you muslim?
No why??
We live in a finite world with infinite possibilities.
FxTyrant M-Series (Live - Darwinex) All Time Return: 0.7%
  • #50,194
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:33pm Jul 16, 2012 11:33pm
Quoting redbox
i think "hedge" word is not meaning like this in first place. hedge is like, if you buy bond, you buy a CDS as its counterpart. if thing goes well, okay, still profit, if not, then CDS will cover the loss. another example is buying option to hedge stocks...

in my opinion, using hedge which is long+short in same instrument is psychological destructive....

and we can guess what happen next. trying to hedge again, the distance (hedge) will get wider and wider...
There is a style of trading that involves a sort of hedge that uses a expanding bracket of trades on the same pair. I use it only when I have a extreamly concentrated amount of undisturbed time to apply to market action, as you can't allow yourself to be distracted nor can you miss a potential peak or valley in the PA.
With my broker, you initiate all longs using FX and all shorts using CFDs.

When PA has reached support, buy FX and as soon as price has moved away from support in your direction, move your SL to BE +1 and place a alarm at that level to alert you if Price moves below your SL.

After reaching resistance and a point of turn around, a CFD sell is enacted therefore locking in the profits between them. Once again the SL is moved to BE +1 as soon as possible and a alarm is place at that SL to alert you of price action stopping your CFD out.

Next comes the most important part. When your alarm sounds.... you have to be ruthless to re-enter the next lock in that's higher than your sell point or lower than your buy point.

I only use this when I have uninterupted days and nights. If you sleep, you have to be able to jump up to answer the alarm or you could lose your locked in profits..
  • #50,195
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:39pm Jul 16, 2012 11:39pm
Quoting bguguen
No why??
Was only asking cause I know most accountholders with no swap/interest are of muslim descent.
  • #50,196
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:40pm Jul 16, 2012 11:40pm
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Was only asking cause I know most accountholders with no swap/interest are of muslim descent.
Or your Broker is an off shore broker.... though regulated, by FSA or CFTC, or wtever... not bound by Union or country rules like the EU or US....

my broker is in Cyprus...
We live in a finite world with infinite possibilities.
FxTyrant M-Series (Live - Darwinex) All Time Return: 0.7%
  • #50,197
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:48pm Jul 16, 2012 11:48pm
Quoting DonL
There is a style of trading that involves a sort of hedge that uses a expanding bracket of trades on the same pair. I use it only when I have a extreamly concentrated amount of undisturbed time to apply to market action, as you can't allow yourself to be distracted nor can you miss a potential peak or valley in the PA.
With my broker, you initiate all longs using FX and all shorts using CFDs.
Spot, Future and CFD are not a same instrument.
they are correlated, but have different characteristic.
AFAIK, Future doesn't give swap, while Spot does. but Future require more margin for rollover. (i don't knw about CFD)

hedging will take advantage with this slight difference.
  • #50,198
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:48pm Jul 16, 2012 11:48pm
We seem to be staying below 1.0300 for London Open..... i've opened a short half an hour ago at 1.0302, now Consolidated Take Profit adjusted to 1.0120 as opposed to 1.0040, good luck folks,
placed a larger position up top and Profit is not moved up
We live in a finite world with infinite possibilities.
FxTyrant M-Series (Live - Darwinex) All Time Return: 0.7%
  • #50,199
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:49pm Jul 16, 2012 11:49pm
Quoting stulic
Sorry but that's flat out wrong, first of all you don't need consecutive losses to one day lose all your money, all you need is not having a profitable strategy and one day, sooner or later depending on how bad you are, you will lose all your money.
I can assure you again, trading with tight SL's will in the long run ruin your account.
Now I'm beginning to think that you might believe that everyone should trade the way you do.

When I am watching price action, I have a fairly reasonable idea of pressure points for support and resistance. I'm not correct 100% of the time and only need to be correct something over 50% of the time to be profitable.

Those people that swing trade or base entry on Gartley or EW, have to use SLs that make provision for average swing movement. It's only prudent!
and in those situations it would be foolish to place a tight SL as there is a great chance of simply getting stopped out on a consistent basis.

But to make sweeping statements to suggest that those using tight SLs might not have a trading strategy, could be verging on a Furphy.
  • #50,200
  • Jul 16, 2012 11:58pm Jul 16, 2012 11:58pm
Quoting Fudomyo
being right all the time is a lot of extra work. it's also is a detriment if you want to become a trader. basket trading is managed risk, hedging a single instrument short term intraday isn't.

hedging a single instrument makes sense under specific circumstances. for example, I have un-leveraged Yen shorts running from 2008 on my account balance totals. I took a leveraged trade off the bottom last February because it was a good trade, and closed it below where I would have closed the un-leveraged trades. the only reason this made sense is the...
Well im not admitting im wrong here... no body is wrong shorting or longing... both can make money here.... as far as im concerned..... I only explained that i will look to open a Long on AUDUSD if price stays above 1.03, now it didnt so i havent opened long above 1.03, in fact i opened another Long term short below 1.03, so i have an aggregate of 4 contracts of short.... this allows me to move my Take Profit Up and yet still be able to make the same amount of profit at a higher Level of Take Profit....
Thats my style of trading.... Right now... the move up since friday is an opportunity for me to open shorts, reason is because im trading according to the weekly chart.... and yep in the weekly chart... i can place a short as gar up as 1.0450 if it gets up there.... so when the Down flow starts to happen, i break even at 1.02xx and make profit below..... thats called pip average trading, it works only if you manage the risk:reward well....

Say for an example.... opening a short at 1.01 for tp at 1.00 , then when market moves up to 1.02 open another short, so now at 1.0150 break even and at original tp of 1.00 you make 150 pips of profit.... thats the skill....
We live in a finite world with infinite possibilities.
FxTyrant M-Series (Live - Darwinex) All Time Return: 0.7%
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