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Dukascopy

  • #1,881
  • Jul 6, 2012 10:37pm Jul 6, 2012 10:37pm
Quoting Marv
That's the thing with Dukascopy. They claim to be this huge ECN and all, but then they have these spreads which just don't look like those of 'true' ECN's. Actually they look more like those of Oanda, which is a market maker that hedges its exposure against liquidity providers.

The following is from the Liquidity Business Model page on Dukascopy's website:

And again:

Notice the choice of words here.

"Hedge" client trades with Liquidity Providers,...
How do you think about Divisa Capital? http://www.divisafx.com/
  • #1,882
  • Jul 7, 2012 2:27am Jul 7, 2012 2:27am
I have previously communicated with Dukascopy on this issue. They referred me to Fair Trading technology Inc. and their reply was as follow:

Dear Customer,
We get our price feed from Dukascopy, theirs are identical to ours.
Dukascopy is the bank, the broker and the liquidity provider. We simply offer an MT4 client for Dukascopy clients if they wish to trade with our platform. Please have a look at the attached screen shots.

Technical Support – Fair Trading


From wafik gabra skrev 2012-06-19 15:45:
to Fair Trading
Dear Mr. Mill,

I have witnessed this issue with my own eyes. The difference between buying & selling price was 52 pips on friday time 2012.06.15 at 22.00, buy rate was 1.2769 & sell rate was 1.2822 (diff. of 52 pips). This is a total mislead by you Sir. You can not ignor a fact. You can certainly cheat but you can NOT certainly hide a fact. I have never expected that from your firm!!

Best Regards

WafikJabra

Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:18:56 +0200

From: [color=blue][email protected][/color]
To: [color=blue][email protected][/color]
Subject: Regarding the AUD/NZD pair

Dear Sir
We have not found any errors on the AUD/NZD pair on the Jforex or MT4 clinet in the time frame you specified. Please see attached screen shots.

Mr. Hjalmar Mill

Fair Trading Technology Inc.




  • #1,883
  • Jul 7, 2012 6:49am Jul 7, 2012 6:49am
Quoting Marv
That's the thing with Dukascopy. They claim to be this huge ECN and all, but then they have these spreads which just don't look like those of 'true' ECN's. Actually they look more like those of Oanda, which is a market maker that hedges its exposure against liquidity providers...
Ok, thanks for your information, It's making me second guess Dukas, but can you confirm this spreads? Are they real?

Because they are adding the commissions to the spreads and I becomes difficult to know the true spread of the brooker with this parameters, and like I said before adding the comission and the spread its not very correct because the commission varies from person to person ( net deposit, trade volume, equity).
  • #1,884
  • Jul 7, 2012 2:43pm Jul 7, 2012 2:43pm
Quoting Marv
Notice the choice of words here.
That's why I asked them a few questions half a year ago http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...219286&page=99

These questions for Dukascopy still remain unanswered by them:

1. Through prime brokers you clear:
A. Dukascopy's headging trades:
i. all
ii. some
iii. none
B. Traders' trades (e.g. my trades initiated via Jforex):
i. all
ii. some
iii. none

2. Through Dukascopy's counterparties you clear:
A. Dukascopy's headging trades:
i. all
ii. some
iii. none
B. Traders' trades (e.g. my trades initiated via Jforex):
i. all
ii. some
iii. none
  • #1,885
  • Jul 7, 2012 3:39pm Jul 7, 2012 3:39pm
Quoting Karl_Vosp
These questions for Dukascopy still remain unanswered by them
I usually take that as an answer in itself.
  • #1,886
  • Jul 7, 2012 4:41pm Jul 7, 2012 4:41pm
Quoting entheos
How do you think about Divisa Capital? http://www.divisafx.com/
I've seen it before, kinda interesting. I would have to try it before I can form an opinion. Unfortunately I don't have time for that right now (I'm currently settling down with LMAX). Maybe some other day.

Quoting Demos4x
Ok, thanks for your information, It's making me second guess Dukas, but can you confirm this spreads? Are they real?

Because they are adding the commissions to the spreads and I becomes difficult to know the true spread of the brooker with this parameters, and like I said before adding the comission and the spread its not very correct because the commission varies from person to person ( net deposit, trade volume, equity).
They're probably using the base/starting commission, which is 35 (0.35 pips).

Assuming that site is including the commission in the spread calculation, I'd say yes, they look real.
  • #1,887
  • Jul 9, 2012 12:15am Jul 9, 2012 12:15am
Quoting Marv
I guess they're trying to be more competitive for retail clients (their target market). It's good but I think they should rather try to improve their spreads/slippage.
+1.
very nice, good price..!
  • #1,888
  • Jul 14, 2012 4:52am Jul 14, 2012 4:52am
I receive this email today this email form dukascopy saying that they reduced their commissions from 35 to 10. Does anyone else receive this email or its a glitch in their system it seems a bit odd that they lower their commissions two times in such a short time.

Dear Sir/Madam,


Please be advised that Volume Commission rate on your trading account Client ID ***** has been changed from 35 to 10.
  • #1,889
  • Jul 14, 2012 9:31am Jul 14, 2012 9:31am
Quoting Demos4x
I receive this email today this email form dukascopy saying that they reduced their commissions from 35 to 10. Does anyone else receive this email or its a glitch in their system it seems a bit odd that they lower their commissions two times in such a short time.

Dear Sir/Madam,


Please be advised that Volume Commission rate on your trading account Client ID ***** has been changed from 35 to 10.
They pad their spreads...this is a joke. A 'true ecn' with good liquidity would have eurusd at 0 spreads almost most of the time especially in liquid moments for example london session. They should never pad spreads, only receive commission. I am glad brokers like IC markets has the balls to be a 'true ecn' broker. But still a person with big money can get better.
  • #1,890
  • Jul 14, 2012 9:55am Jul 14, 2012 9:55am
Quoting Supertrader9
They pad their spreads...this is a joke. A 'true ecn' with good liquidity would have eurusd at 0 spreads almost most of the time especially in liquid moments for example london session. They should never pad spreads, only receive commission. I am glad brokers like IC markets has the balls to be a 'true ecn' broker. But still a person with big money can get better.
true , its padded, but don't expect someone to care when it comes down to a good broker. Dukascopy is well known while IC markets is being pushed like a car out of gas.
  • #1,891
  • Jul 15, 2012 5:06am Jul 15, 2012 5:06am
Quoting Supertrader9
Cheers.
P/s Armadamarkets/LMAX is good but their liquidity will need to be improved soon. Its very thin i must say. Only three banks/liquidity provider?
I would use dukascopy if they have 0 spreads excellent execution at least less than 200ms and 10usd per million commission. For now they have already pad their spreads since they first begins on top if that charges commission. Bye bye duka. Improve or be left behind!! Come on they are based in switzerland and can't offer primexm bridge for mt4 traders?(Primexm is also a swiss company).
I agree with you, if dukas changed their spreads to a true ECN spreads, I would go to dukas with a blink of an eye even with the commissions at 33.
  • #1,892
  • Jul 15, 2012 5:20am Jul 15, 2012 5:20am
Thanks for the input supertrader9. I agree with everything except the lmax liquidity being "thin". I find it pretty good unless I'm looking for prime bank standard with massive orders to fill. As for ICMarkets my problem with them is integrity related, but that is another story.

Cheers
  • #1,893
  • Jul 15, 2012 5:21am Jul 15, 2012 5:21am
nm..
How to opt out annoying user signatures ??
  • #1,894
  • Jul 15, 2012 8:56am Jul 15, 2012 8:56am
Quoting Marv
Thanks for the input supertrader9. I agree with everything except the lmax liquidity being "thin". I find it pretty good unless I'm looking for prime bank standard with massive orders to fill. As for ICMarkets my problem with them is integrity related, but that is another story.

Cheers
Yes, for retail traders they are good..just forget about liquidity thingy for now

About IC markets integrity they are regulated by ASIC. That says it all. You can be confident with ASIC. I am not promoting them just telling.

P/s I hope dukascopy/or future traders going to duka would be reading our posts.
  • #1,895
  • Jul 15, 2012 10:38am Jul 15, 2012 10:38am
Anyone can tell me average spread of Euro/Usd on Dukascopy?
  • #1,896
  • Jul 15, 2012 10:41am Jul 15, 2012 10:41am
Quoting Marv
Thanks for the input supertrader9. I agree with everything except the lmax liquidity being "thin". I find it pretty good unless I'm looking for prime bank standard with massive orders to fill. As for ICMarkets my problem with them is integrity related, but that is another story.

Cheers
For the sake of discussion, what do you consider a "massive order fill"?
  • #1,897
  • Jul 15, 2012 10:42am Jul 15, 2012 10:42am
Quoting duyk20
Anyone can tell me average spread of Euro/Usd on Dukascopy?

1 pip.
  • #1,898
  • Jul 15, 2012 11:23am Jul 15, 2012 11:23am
Quoting Demos4x
1 pip.
Thanks
  • #1,899
  • Jul 19, 2012 5:54am Jul 19, 2012 5:54am

Dear traders,


Our attention has been drawn to the post of Karl Vosp below dated 7 July 2012 which is inducing visitors to believe that Dukascopy Bank would avoid answering certain questions deliberately, which is not true. Feel free to resubmit to Dukascopy Bank any question which would remain unanswered. In reference with the questions mentioned by Karl Vosp, we are pleased to answer as follows:


1. A. => some

When client trades are hedged with other client trades or when Dukascopy Bank trades directly with other banks / institutional counterparties no prime broker is involved.


1. B. => none for retail clients

Institutional and large clients may require us to give up their trades in favor of their prime broker (e.g. Citi, UBS, Credit Suisse, etc.).


Remark: prime brokers are used to reduce counterparty risk and are not relevant to define the ECN model.


2. A. => some

Dukascopy Bank may trade and clear directly with some bank counterparties as well.


2. B. => none

Because Dukascopy Bank is the counterparty of all client trades as mentioned in our FAQ http://www.dukascopy.com/swiss/english/forex/faq/. Our FAQ also explains why the SWFX – Swiss Forex Marketplace of Dukascopy Bank shall be defined as an ECN.


Our friendly advice: we recommend traders to focus and compare brokers based on parameters which, at the end of the day really make a difference on their accounts, such as: execution prices, quality of datafeed, liquidity, system reliability, platform accessibility including API if any, probability of execution / order reject, spreads, speed of execution, trading environment including risk monitoring tools, available types of orders, client support, reputation, regulation, transparency and integrity of the broker.


As a matter of fact, much more than a specific execution model is needed to offer a trusty trading environment.


All the best

Dukascopy Bank SA


Quoting Karl_Vosp
That's why I asked them a few questions half a year ago http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...219286&page=99

These questions for Dukascopy still remain unanswered by them:

1. Through prime brokers you clear:
A. Dukascopy's headging trades:
i. all
ii. some
iii. none
B. Traders' trades (e.g. my trades initiated via Jforex):
i. all
ii. some
iii. none

2. Through Dukascopy's counterparties you clear:
A. Dukascopy's headging trades:
i. all
ii. some
iii. none
B. [u]Traders' trades (e.g. my trades...
  • #1,900
  • Jul 19, 2012 6:24am Jul 19, 2012 6:24am
Quoting Demos4x
For the sake of discussion, what do you consider a "massive order fill"?
Something like 40 million.

My point was that LMAX liquidity is not "thin" as claimed, especially by retail market standards. You can easily fill a 10 mill order within 1 pip slippage.

Here's a random screen shot (100 = 1 million). If you consider that "thin", I'll assume you have millions in funds and you should probably go to a prime bank.
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