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Stop Hunting

  • #101
  • May 12, 2006 9:38pm May 12, 2006 9:38pm
Oh, and notice that Vegas trades the longer frames. There are reasons for that, and one probably has to do with situations like these.
  • #102
  • May 13, 2006 1:19am May 13, 2006 1:19am
Quoting azmi
Oanda use JAVA based platform. Do you mean to say that they have the ability to do this to their retail customers?
yes, they have been caught I think here:

http://www2.oanda.com/cgi-bin/msgboa...6;t=006230;p=1


Havent read the whole thread; but that is what it looks like, and Onada is hiding; refusing to reply.
  • #103
  • May 13, 2006 2:55am May 13, 2006 2:55am
Well, I read the whole Oanda thread and they haven't responded yet. Now, my question is, since so many brokers have the ability to do this, what is the best way to get around it other than not having stops? Do we just not have positions open during news? This really worries me. I stay away from news time as much as I can because of whipsaws. I have been trading on the 4 hr charts as well so, that probability is not as great for me but the thought of them doing this.
JOHN 3:16
  • #104
  • May 13, 2006 8:20am May 13, 2006 8:20am
Wow dude, great info, now Oanda too....Thats some news, I think half of the guys in here trade with Oanda....Its getting worse by the day...

I think now its time to draw up an excel file and calculate each brokers High, low, open, close chart for each minute and hours side by side and pin them down one by one....wow, the worms are beginning to come out of the box....

renasdad,

I'm sorry dude but its not the best way to find a solution by turning around things...its question of morality, ethic's and cheating, fraud side by side...its time to nail the bad guys to the ground for ever..and a stern warning to others not to play around with traders....

I'm sensing its time to start a traders association of some sorts to throw us some weight around and be more vocal...and if some sites takes a stance and fight for our rights...im willing to even pay for the membership....guys its high time....

I'm boiling blood here folks and with my hearts blood I write, if I was an american citizen now or from the countries these brokers operate....i would shoot them with lawsuits in millions....atleast for the sake they won't have any new customers...

Will any guys in here take time and send me their brokers chart for 1M, 5M and 1 H datas...I would love to make an excel file and show the comparision of whats going on and if its just a tip of the iceberg or it has already sunk 100's of titanics....
  • #105
  • May 13, 2006 8:46am May 13, 2006 8:46am
Purple,

What can a small fish do in small lagoon fill with sharks.

Most bucket shop offer free info on how to trade FX. Stop loss is mentioned as part for how FX is traded to protect your hard earned money and if you follow it closely in the long run your dreams will come true. I guess they just ripped your account to shreads.

Why are they doing this. The spread from every trade is not enough for them? The huge Fx market in the size of trillions and they have to resort to this. Ripping off their customer at every corner.
  • #106
  • May 13, 2006 10:39am May 13, 2006 10:39am
Quoting azmi
Purple,

What can a small fish do in small lagoon fill with sharks.

Most bucket shop offer free info on how to trade FX. Stop loss is mentioned as part for how FX is traded to protect your hard earned money and if you follow it closely in the long run your dreams will come true. I guess they just ripped your account to shreads.

Why are they doing this. The spread from every trade is not enough for them? The huge Fx market in the size of trillions and they have to resort to this. Ripping off their customer at every corner.

Azmi I was not the victim in this thread, its someone else; the threadstarter's freind.

You see if I put a stop loss and the market touches that price, I dont have any issue; because even than the broker risks his money in the market to drag the price to that level. He himselves enters the market to move it.

But what we are talking here is that the market never came to my stop loss point and the broker gave me a 'artificial' price chart; telling me thats the real market chart; and that my stoploss was triggered.

And by looking at the chart at first post and one streamed by Onada itself, its very clear that some brokers dont want just a small percentage of your money (ie spread), they want all your money. Your entire account amount. And they will go to any lengths to do it.
  • #107
  • May 13, 2006 12:19pm May 13, 2006 12:19pm
Quoting azmi
Purple,

What can a small fish do in small lagoon fill with sharks.

Why are they doing this. The spread from every trade is not enough for them? The huge Fx market in the size of trillions and they have to resort to this. Ripping off their customer at every corner.
A good friend of mine had an uncle who was shot for what was in his wallet. $80.
I don't know why people fail to believe that a broker market maker won't manipulate the price for thousands with no consequences. The worst that can happen. he has to give back the money.

What can the little guy do stop trading with bucket shops. Looking to accounts that are ECN direct routing, no dealing desk. If enough traders are switching. It would send a strong message.
A truly wise man, always has more questions than answers.
  • #108
  • May 13, 2006 2:10pm May 13, 2006 2:10pm
After long discussions, I start to think there's no point to trade any spot currency market. This market is unregulated and (immoral) stop hunting like that is equal to rip-off.

Also it seems every retail broker does the same, even the reputable ones like Oanda. Different brokers do (immoral) stop hunting with different degrees - some may be very aggressive, others are mild.

So what's the best alternative to trade forex?
Maybe we should all switch to currency futures in CME. It seems it's much better and fairer.
  • #109
  • May 13, 2006 2:16pm May 13, 2006 2:16pm
Quoting Claude
A good friend of mine had an uncle who was shot for what was in his wallet. $80.
I don't know why people fail to believe that a broker market maker won't manipulate the price for thousands with no consequences. The worst that can happen. he has to give back the money.

What can the little guy do stop trading with bucket shops. Looking to accounts that are ECN direct routing, no dealing desk. If enough traders are switching. It would send a strong message.
Okay, so which one should we switch to?
How can I know if one doesn't have a dealing desk or have direct routing?
  • #110
  • May 13, 2006 2:18pm May 13, 2006 2:18pm
Quoting Purple
Azmi I was not the victim in this thread, its someone else; the threadstarter's freind.

You see if I put a stop loss and the market touches that price, I dont have any issue; because even than the broker risks his money in the market to drag the price to that level. He himselves enters the market to move it.
Yes, this kind of stop hunting is acceptable.
They are sticking with the rules while playing this game.


Quote
But what we are talking here is that the market never came to my stop loss point and the broker gave me a 'artificial' price chart; telling me thats the real market chart; and that my stoploss was triggered.

And by looking at the chart at first post and one streamed by Onada itself, its very clear that some brokers dont want just a small percentage of your money (ie spread), they want all your money. Your entire account amount. And they will go to any lengths to do it.

This kind of stop hunting is not accpetable.
They screw our price and make us trigger our stop-losses. It's cheating in the game!
  • #111
  • May 13, 2006 2:21pm May 13, 2006 2:21pm
Quoting renasdad
Well, I read the whole Oanda thread and they haven't responded yet. Now, my question is, since so many brokers have the ability to do this, what is the best way to get around it other than not having stops? Do we just not have positions open during news? This really worries me. I stay away from news time as much as I can because of whipsaws. I have been trading on the 4 hr charts as well so, that probability is not as great for me but the thought of them doing this.
The best solution?!
Leave this market and trade currency future.

We shouldn't risk our eggs in the shaking basket.
Move your eggs to the stable basket.
  • #112
  • May 13, 2006 2:22pm May 13, 2006 2:22pm
yeah i agree. forex sucks. i think i'll go get ripped off by the specialists at the NYSE, or maybe ill head up to Chicago to get robbed at the CME. or i could trade NASDAQ and get shitted on a bad ARCA fill. hmmm...maybe i will just stick to forex and avoid scalping FOMC announcements
Relax and be happy.
  • #113
  • May 13, 2006 10:45pm May 13, 2006 10:45pm
Claude,

I think that its great that you point us in the right direction. I dont see many discussion on ECN Brokers and I dont know why the lack of appeal for them.

I read on this forum that CoesFx minimum account goes for $7,000 with position size of 100,000.

I would like to test my trading ideas with smaller position size like micro lot and I can personally evaluate the services provided by the broker over a period of time.
  • #114
  • May 13, 2006 11:01pm May 13, 2006 11:01pm
This thread has been very informative.Can anyone name few ECN so that I may browse them for shifting to ECN than brokers with dealing desks.
It would be much helpful if some one in few lines explain me the comission/fee per round trip.What is this round trip.
thanks.
  • #115
  • May 13, 2006 11:52pm May 13, 2006 11:52pm
Quoting kolachi
This thread has been very informative.Can anyone name few ECN so that I may browse them for shifting to ECN than brokers with dealing desks.
It would be much helpful if some one in few lines explain me the comission/fee per round trip.What is this round trip.
thanks.
ECNs include MBT, Interactive Brokers, InterbankFX and CoesFx.

I believe most of these charge commissions (InterbankFX being the only one that doesn't).

I agree with merlin, I think really the biggest thing to take away from this is that when trading Forex, expect to be burned when trying to trade volatile news.

I suspect it's possible to make money with a lot of the brokers, but I think of working with brokers the way I think of playing in Casinos. In general, they all have the same product, and offer the same risk/rewards if you're lucky and have decent money management. But every once in a while, they'll be that string of 13 blacks in a row (when betting in roulette) and there will be people who get burned by trying to play the odds that a red spin will come up. Whether it's casino manipulation or not, brokers are working with much better odds than any of us. They see their client's market depth and can trade against that (not to mention the spread), so seriously, trying to trade against the broker is almost pointless. That's not to say you can't make money with good trades, but you have to pick your fights carefully or it's game over.
  • #116
  • May 14, 2006 12:26am May 14, 2006 12:26am
Many brokers offer basic charting service and that is the reason that most members here use metatrader or other third party charting application.

The reason that this forum being attractive is because members here put forward realistic and practical trading ideas.

We all like to see that these ideas translate into positive outcome. Sometimes trading signal generated during the news release. What do we all do. Avoid the trading signal. Should we all discuss that in developing a trading system to avoid signal during news release.
  • #117
  • May 14, 2006 1:00am May 14, 2006 1:00am
Thanks MrMikal for giving info about MBT and IB.
I have checked the website of MB Trading as well as Interbankfx.Both are quite reasonable.
I in my personal view liked the MBT.they clearly display that they do not have any dealing desk and hence no vested interest to hunt or manipulation.the commision is $0.5 per lot of $10,000.It means a commision of about half pip.I think it is not bad deal.
I am not clear about one thing which I need to ask.
If I want to open a carry trade where swap is favourable for me and I do not close it for two weeks.What will happen to commission.Will I be charged daily for this open position or is it one time charged till position is open?
Any who has experience of MBT or commision trading is requested to reply.
  • #118
  • May 14, 2006 2:53pm May 14, 2006 2:53pm
Quoting kolachi
Thanks MrMikal for giving info about MBT and IB.
I have checked the website of MB Trading as well as Interbankfx.Both are quite reasonable.
I in my personal view liked the MBT.they clearly display that they do not have any dealing desk and hence no vested interest to hunt or manipulation.the commision is $0.5 per lot of $10,000.It means a commision of about half pip.I think it is not bad deal.
I am not clear about one thing which I need to ask.
If I want to open a carry trade where swap is favourable for me and I do not close it for two weeks.What will happen to commission.Will I be charged daily for this open position or is it one time charged till position is open?
Any who has experience of MBT or commision trading is requested to reply.
Commission is actually applied per side of the trade...so think of it this way...

You open up a $100K position in the USD/JPY and you're charged $5.00 for the long side. 2 weeks later, you decide to close your entire $100K position and are charged $5.00 again.

Note that this will be different if you are trading a non-USD based pair (like the EUR/USD where the EURO is the base, not the USD). Your commission will actually be more on each side (because the position will actually be worth almost $130K USD for 100K Euro position...right?).

Just be aware that commissions are $5.00 for every $100,000 USD...EACH SIDE!!

All brokers that charge commission follow this policy (to my knowledge), and I've looked at a lot of them.
  • #119
  • May 16, 2006 5:00am May 16, 2006 5:00am
Hope this will put things clearer and take Claude's advice.

http://forexfacts.port5.com/index.htm
  • #120
  • May 17, 2006 9:32am May 17, 2006 9:32am
Quoting merlin
yeah i agree. forex sucks. i think i'll go get ripped off by the specialists at the NYSE, or maybe ill head up to Chicago to get robbed at the CME. or i could trade NASDAQ and get shitted on a bad ARCA fill. hmmm...maybe i will just stick to forex and avoid scalping FOMC announcements
I'm not saying that you can't get ripped off anywhere else, but when you trade on CBOT or CME, the CFTC strictly prohibits changing the prices on the feed. If a broker got caught stop-hunting on a futures account, they would be screwed. In forex, there's no central regulation, so you do see stop-hunting on big scalping positions. This is one of the reasons that I don't scalp though, so you are right about that.
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