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why do people share profitable systems?

  • #81
  • Jun 14, 2012 7:49am Jun 14, 2012 7:49am
Quoting micmic
Like in so many other cases, I think that the motive should not be overlooked. To draw an analogy, we have "psychics" who know they are crooks and all they want is to scam people, and we have "psychics" who truly believe they have a "gift" and want to help others, with or without a fee. Of course the end customer will always receive crap, but the answer to the question "why does X give psychic readings" is different in each case.

In most cases, people who ask for money in order to share a system, sell a book, give a seminar, offer...
Fantastic post!
  • #82
  • Jun 14, 2012 8:24am Jun 14, 2012 8:24am
Quoting Pipalicious
The only way i would share my profitable trading systems is if:

1) I had made enough fortune to sustain myself, comfortably, for the rest of my days.

2) If i had nobody i could "will" it to upon my death bed (children,...).

Other than that id discuss ideas and whatnot, but i would never divulge a full blown "built-from-the-ground-up" trading system.

Why do people tend to share systems?

1) Thet are not complete systems (hence discretion involved).

2) They dont truly exploit an edge, randomly if that.

3) They are simply complete crap and...
Very correct! I personally believe that majority of the so called systems being posted on FF is mostly done by brokers and their agents.
Its more like oiling the wheel of their money making venture. You'll never believe the sheer size of clueless newbies out there who these monsters trap every day when they present trading forex as a very easy way of making money.
The only way not to think about money is to have a great deal of it
  • #83
  • Jun 14, 2012 8:36am Jun 14, 2012 8:36am
most of the systems posted on the trading systems forum are not profitable. even if some of them are there is way to much discretion allowed. even with the basic pattern of TA you can find someone in the world which made them work but in a discretionary manner. for the same pattern you will find 1 who made it and 99 which not.
  • #84
  • Jun 14, 2012 8:40am Jun 14, 2012 8:40am
Quoting deltatrade
most of the systems posted on the trading systems forum are not profitable. even if some of them are there is way to much discretion allowed. even with the basic pattern of TA you can find someone in the world which made them work but in a discretionary manner. for the same pattern you will find 1 who made it and 99 which not.
True that. It all comes back to experience and once you have thta you don't need to copy someone elses system anyway. You will likely develop your own from all the ideas you've gathered.

That's kinda what happened to me anyway and the impression I get from most profitable traders I speak to.
Time hides Nothing
  • #85
  • Jun 23, 2012 12:36pm Jun 23, 2012 12:36pm
I like the golf analogies for the discussion of systems versus expertise.

There are multiple swing techniques and you only have to read any of the multiple golf magazines to find that each coach is promoting a different slant on essentially one goal - accuracy and repeatability. There is no holy grail in golf, or any other particular skill except for learning, experience and application. discover what approach works in any particular scenario and perfect the approach.

All of the retail training companies are there for one purpose - selling training materials and to ultimately generate a passive income from subscription services, so essentially there is going to be an upsell - "join our exclusive platinum members only benefits club/group".

Some of the retail training companies may very well be successful in using their own systems, but I guarantee they make more money selling product than they do in trading. Residual/Passive income is the key (Trump / Kiyosaki).

Maybe cynical - probably not.

From all of the FF threads that start out with a "pure" approach / system, most get corrupted by a profusion of indicators which only serve to confuse and distort the approach.

All indicators are in fact lagging (historical) - they are based on moving averages based on a sample size of previous prices / L/H / closes or they are based on more complicated algorithms. There are no true leading (predictive) indicators. There are numerous examples of robots and EAs that initially work and then collapse.

At the end of the day in any trading environment, Price Action, Supply & Demand, Momentum are the only winners. Some of the indicators have a higher success rate, but blindly following a "when this line crosses that line and when this bar changes colour " will get you in a hole, unless you take the time and energy to understand what is driving the markets, what the risk is and what the probability is of any particular trade set-up.

The institutional investment organizations control billions of dollars - these are the true market makers, the retail trading market is unlikely to ever have the ability to influence a market - is less coordinated and has much less capital.

OK - I'm off the soap box now. That was my 10 cents on "systems"

Cheers - happy pip hunting.
"To live with Passion, it takes Courage and Grace to survive"
  • #86
  • Jun 23, 2012 1:45pm Jun 23, 2012 1:45pm
Quoting Britpip7
I like the golf analogies for the discussion of systems versus expertise.

There are multiple swing techniques and you only have to read any of the multiple golf magazines to find that each coach is promoting a different slant on essentially one goal - accuracy and repeatability. There is no holy grail in golf, or any other particular skill except for learning, experience and application. discover what approach works in any particular scenario and perfect the approach.

All of the retail training companies are there for one purpose - selling training...
although i agree with most of this... i do think that some people who perhaps make a lot of money from nothing just get a lot out of helping others... sounds insane i know.
tradewith60
  • #87
  • Jun 23, 2012 2:29pm Jun 23, 2012 2:29pm
Quoting 60minuteman
although i agree with most of this... i do think that some people who perhaps make a lot of money from nothing just get a lot out of helping others... sounds insane i know.
For the folks who share on FF Threads and other such forums, the primary motivation is sharing, so I am in total agreement with you.

In fact several folks have free blogs - djcinc / vantage, etc., and even some of the paid for companies also post a bunch of information and training videos - Dean Miller / Jason Stapleton / Nial Fuller / Jed Norwood / Colin Miller, etc. (with an expectation that you will eventually subscribe )

My main concern is that many folks fall into the honey pot when they believe that most forex training companies are helping the retail traders and have the holy grail, when the real business they are in is selling seats in training classes and subscription programs.

I am a firm believer in "playing it forward", so love the FF forums.
"To live with Passion, it takes Courage and Grace to survive"
  • #88
  • Jun 23, 2012 10:39pm Jun 23, 2012 10:39pm
Systems for sale:

Manual. Forget about it. The moment you try to be someone else is the moment you write "L" on your forehead. You can't be someone but yourself.

EA. Most people cheat the system. Buy for a "group" so that everyone can get it for "free". Why on earth would someone code a profitable EA sell it only to have only a handful of people buy it and then give it away for free?

But yet people say the coder is trying to cheat the moron who knows nothing, does not want to put forth any effort at all... they can't be bothered with testing and looking for bugs.... nor can they pay for it. They split it amongst a group to get the cost to $0 or close to it.

Here's a couple of seeds for ya. > .. Plant them in your lazy ass. There's always 2 sides to every coin. (If the shoe fits, you will put it on sooner or later.)
  • #89
  • Jun 14, 2023 3:04pm Jun 14, 2023 3:04pm
I have a profitable strategy that I share on youtube. Why not. There's trillions to be made in the market. There is huge wealth gap. Me helping average guy make an extra $100 or $10,000 doesn't bother me. I'm happy for it!
  • #90
  • Jun 14, 2023 3:19pm Jun 14, 2023 3:19pm
Quoting BBPI_fxtrader
{quote} in order for this to happen, you have no idea how many of us would have to use the system, and with large amounts of capital. and also, give 2 persons the exact same system and they will trade it differently, and at one point one or the other will try to improve it and make it perfect, and thus destroy it...because everybody wants that perfect system that gives no false signals

Exactly..when I first started out in 2000 there was a trader by the handle of oldman at a defunct site now called avidtrader...he was a curmudgeion and didnt take stupidity well LOL

someone asked him the same thing about why hes so helpfull and he said you can give the holy grail of trading system to a 100 people and not one will be profitable LOL...i thought he was crazy but once I learned its mainly psychology that makes a good trader I finally understood that comment LOL
short trump and go long the deepstate
  • #91
  • Jun 14, 2023 3:21pm Jun 14, 2023 3:21pm
My observations indicate that there are few fully functional profitable systems that work well in different market conditions (I only know of one), and they are so complex to master that even when partially released to the public, they fail to generate interest for the majority. Most people always gravitate towards simple systems, which I personally consider to be limited in their effectiveness. In other words, understanding the market context and having a general understanding of the market is too complicated, and those who share this knowledge for a fee, such as mentors, are not particularly concerned about making this knowledge available to the public. This is because the public resides within their own information bubble.
  • #92
  • Jun 14, 2023 3:24pm Jun 14, 2023 3:24pm
Answer after 11 years?
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Theory of Everything is Liquidity...https://www.youtube.com/@FxArt.Trader
  • #93
  • Jun 14, 2023 3:28pm Jun 14, 2023 3:28pm
i think the only way to be successful in trading with a system or not is be contrarian... if you trade like the books and websites and gurus tell then why do 90% of beginners lose money trading that way.... Forget everything you learned in books and trade opposite
short trump and go long the deepstate
  • #94
  • Jun 14, 2023 4:05pm Jun 14, 2023 4:05pm
Quoting FxArt.Trader
Answer after 11 years? {image}
That guy was inactive since 2017, as per his profile. Today he decides to show up again, by digging up an 11 year-old thread and bringing no value to it...
I truly wonder how people function inside their heads...

But maybe a clue would be that in the 2 posts he made today (so after 6 years of inactivity), he manages to mention that 1) he has a youtube channel and 2) he has a moving average crossover EA that is very profitable.
  • #95
  • Jun 15, 2023 6:20am Jun 15, 2023 6:20am
I'm not sure they do
  • #96
  • Jun 15, 2023 6:24am Jun 15, 2023 6:24am
Quoting Coolleen
A profitable system/strategy no longer remain profitable when majority starts following... why do people share their system for free?
Simply put, they like to share. Not everyone's the same... duh.
  • #97
  • Jun 17, 2023 3:41pm Jun 17, 2023 3:41pm
A reason for sharing any system could be that one is looking for feedback to make it better.
Open to new approaches.
  • #98
  • Jun 17, 2023 3:46pm Jun 17, 2023 3:46pm
An observation is that very few people follow any system - good or bad - with discipline. They run into situations where their entry signals generate losses (which will happen once in a while with even the best systems) then lose patience and try their own tweaks and lose some more and decide the system is bad. The system might be bad or maybe they just didn’t execute a good system with patience and consistency.

Then there’s trading a bad system with very little patience and consistency and you get massive confusion and frustration.
Open to new approaches.
  • #99
  • Jun 18, 2023 9:10am Jun 18, 2023 9:10am
Quoting MetaCoder
An observation is that very few people follow any system - good or bad - with discipline. They run into situations where their entry signals generate losses (which will happen once in a while with even the best systems) then lose patience and try their own tweaks and lose some more and decide the system is bad. The system might be bad or maybe they just didn’t execute a good system with patience and consistency. Then there’s trading a bad system with very little patience and consistency and you get massive confusion and frustration.
patience is the key, I know it is hard for me to be patient, and it is my downfall when it comes to trading
without patience how can you be a trader?
  • #100
  • Jun 18, 2023 9:00pm Jun 18, 2023 9:00pm
Quoting Steverino832
{quote} patience is the key, I know it is hard for me to be patient, and it is my downfall when it comes to trading
Patience & Consistency
It's better to be out wishing to be in... than to be in wishing to be out!
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