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Are the best systems also the systems that fail most spectacularly?

  • Post #1
  • Quote
  • First Post: Aug 30, 2009 1:41pm Aug 30, 2009 1:41pm
Just like to throw this question out there to more experienced Forex traders.

The reason is because I'm working on my own automated forex trading sytem written in C++, Ive tested it on 2009 so far and it produced 10000 pips, testing it on 2008 at the moment and so far its at about 11,000 pips. This is without any "filtering" of any kind.

My system has lots of losing trades too, and the progress is very slow and it hovers around certain balances for months. I've always been skeptical when I read about these bots that claim to have no losing trades since whenever. Do these types of "perfect" systems usually fail more spectacularly than a system that produces regular losses but usually more wins.
howdy frinkFX,
that 10000 p and 11000p after minus everything? if so...why u so afraid?

good/perfect system not bout 100% wins..its all bout how in the end u can get more green pts/come out as a winner..

good luck
there is no such thing as an infallable system or ea. there are market participants with literally billions of dollars at their disposal for research and developement into auto trading and they still manage to lose money. If such a thing were possible there would be no market. Your system is no different, the only garrantee it comes with is that it will fail. If you are anything like me you will not accept this and continue to waste your time trying to get a machine to do your trading for you, convinced from your useless tests that it is possible. It takes a lot of time to learn to trade properly, most of the time is required in developing self control. The sooner you get started on this the better
Quoting M.A.C.Doug
there is no such thing as an infallable system or ea. there are market participants with literally billions of dollars at their disposal for research and developement into auto trading and they still manage to lose money. If...
I appreciate your opinion but thats all it is. an opinion. Google made millions of dollars getting machines to search the Internet and they didn't do too badly. Machines can do amazing things with the right person controlling them, of course they can do really stupid things too. If you're not a fan of EA's that's fine. Believe me if I had the natural skill of trading on instinct alone I'd do that and forget about the EA's.

The fact remains a lot of people are making a lot of money getting machines to do their trading for them and will continue to make more in the future as computing power gets cheaper and better.
  • Post #5
  • Quote
  • Edited at 7:38pm Aug 30, 2009 7:24pm | Edited at 7:38pm
Quoting FrinkFX
I appreciate your opinion but thats all it is. an opinion
weren't u asking for opinions in the first place?
I think what you will find here is many opinions of all shades and colors.

You'll have people here saying that it can absolutely be done and you should press on.

Others will say that you might get it to work for a while, until things change.

Some will say that it winds up being breakeven, or not much better.

Another will say the same - minus the spread. So that the negative expectancy caused by costs will always leave you below zero.

You will also have some say that the machine can't be taught to "read" the market and will ultimately fail miserably.

And, clearly, there will be those that will say it is a total goose chase and utter waste of time, but you will try and try until you realize that you have to learn to trade this thing yourself. They will tell you that when you're done dinking around and you are ready to actually learn how to trade.... I know it's hard to hear. The truth is in you. You will have to answer the question because obviously, no one else can.

I'll go ahead and vote for number 2. If you can get one to work in your favor, even if it has to be manually watched over, then you should get as much out of it as you can. In the end, it all becomes part of your learning process - so, if you believe you need it - you should do it.
The best traders win a lot and loose a lot as well, you cannot have the one without the other... it's like saying night without day, you need both sides to benefit from. You could develop a system that wins 95% of the time(hard to find) but looses you the other 5% on the first trades and it wipes your account. Great traders know that nothing is 100% and they make the best from uncertainty, taking what the market offers at that particular time.

Can you benefit from an EA? Well anything is possible, however there are a few difficulties it could run into... market sentiment, traders emotions, reaction to news(NFP,GDP), this are a few examples. In my oppinion a machine alone cannot provide you the edge needed to become profitable in the long term.
Hi Frink FX,
In my humble opinion you could continue on the path you've chosen until you discover that it works (then great!) or that it does not (then use that feedback to try another course.

I know the above sounds a bit trite, but I do believe one needs to follow your heart and see where it leads.

With that said, I do believe that with the money and expertise that some of the big players have in the forex, that an EA that really worked would be out there already. Of course, if it is they probably wouldn't tell anyone would they?

So, that leaves the option of spending the effort on learning trading. Probably the best course for anyone to take.

Joey
Quoting FrinkFX

The fact remains a lot of people are making a lot of money getting machines to do their trading for them
absolute b.s, I challenge you to provide evidence of a single case of this occurring
Quoting M.A.C.Doug
absolute b.s, I challenge you to provide evidence of a single case of this occurring
I would not dismiss this as 'b.s.'.

I know a fund in the Cayman Islands who exclusively trades black box algorithmic programs.

We all know that nothing has an unlimited life span - let alone profitability span, but fully computerized trading models have been and still are a major part of modern trading.

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • Post #11
  • Quote
  • Edited at 7:41am Aug 31, 2009 7:29am | Edited at 7:41am
Quoting daytrading
I would not dismiss this as 'b.s.'.

I know a fund in the Cayman Islands who exclusively trades black box algorithmic programs.

We all know that nothing has an unlimited life span - let alone profitability span, but fully computerized trading models have been and still are a major part of modern trading.

regards
daytrading
For a few years now I have known that brokerages are using dynamic trading systems. The trading system computes every tick of data and changes itself accordingly. The equity curves produced from 10% samples for the entire market is impressive but only seems to be worthwhile on daily or higher time frames. Intra day doesnt seem to do very well. With the computer being capable to produce studies of the market far better than myself, I would stick to daily or higher time frames as well. Forget day trading IMO.

What is discouraging though is that these computer systems are for sale. They have fairly high price tags and maintance fees but apparently they can make more money selling the item than by using it.

Fact is using our traditional statistical analysis to measure risk in the market is NOT working. There needs to be new discoveries in economics which will govern risk. But the main problem is the market seems to be continuous and not discrete. Try and work around that problem. lol
Are the best systems also the systems that fail most spectacularly?


I think a good reference to this question are the typcial martingale strategies. The math behind them shows they can have a 100% win ratio (overall when positions are averaged out) and make squillions of dollars.

Ofcourse they fail spectacularly (if left on 24/5 unsupervised) too due to massive DD's resulting from black swan trades.
Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.......
I want to add one last thing. For those looking to get RICH there seems to be only one way to get there. Follow the fundamentals and look for major bubbles or neglected asset classes in the market. Then ask yourself all the questions of what could happen when the bubble bursts or when the supply and demand will change. Be highly leveraged and keep your fingers crossed cause these type of opportunities don't come around that often. When you hit it big it usually happens all at once or in a very short period of time compared to the whole.

As the percentage of mega rich folks compared to the rest of the population is probably about as often these events will happen.Look at all the rich people of the world, they became rich basically by being hard workers and most importantly being in the right profession at the right time. I think the new discoveries in economics that will be most significant will be in finding a probability of a major event occuring.

Most of us missed the latest rare event in the currency market because we did not ask ourselves the right questions. We all new there was a bubble in housing and it's potential devasting consequences but we did not ask what would happen to the dollar. Apparently everyone dumped their foreign investments based in foreign currency and ran back to the dollar along with lots of other foreigners. Why? Because even though the dollar is flawed it was at the time the one currency that was at the moment the safest. George Soros asked all the right questions and made over another billion dollars by taking the rare opportunity.

I remember when he was interviewed by Charlie Rose in June saying he was shorting the pound vs the dollar. Even after watching that I was out to lunch. Now he has gone back into retirement and prob wont come back out until another potential rare event occurs. But my guess the next rare event that will occur will prob be after his death.lol

Good luck in your trading.
I disagree with the one way JT - it depends on your size. Huge scale traders are trading on fundies because they absolutely have to. You can't work in multi billion pound positions without it moving the market, so you're looking at what moves the market on a longer scale - fundies.
For smaller funds, intraday trading is a lucrative business. For every strategy for sale, there are dozens more that never see the light of day. I know of one hedge fund that has been returning 20-30% pa using the same algos for 4 years now, trading very high frequency. Even now, it's about 10% of big volume traders in FX are using algos (vs 60%ish fundies from memory).
Quoting triphop
I disagree with the one way JT - it depends on your size. Huge scale traders are trading on fundies because they absolutely have to. You can't work in multi billion pound positions without it moving the market, so you're looking at what moves the market on a longer scale - fundies.
For smaller funds, intraday trading is a lucrative business. For every strategy for sale, there are dozens more that never see the light of day. I know of one hedge fund that has been returning 20-30% pa using the same algos for 4 years now, trading very high frequency....
Yea I wouldn't doubt that. Reason being there are small percentage of big winners out there on every level. That was pretty much my whole point. The few own the majority. It's just a law of the free market. Why it's like that is because great opportunities are rare. Hard work may keep you out the poor house but it doesn't guarantee you riches.

Regards
Quoting M.A.C.Doug
absolute b.s, I challenge you to provide evidence of a single case of this occurring
I heard something on bloomberg about
some guy who did this, it wasn't forex trading, I think it was government bonds or something
Yep averaging in always in systems are the worst, try this 1 out!!


Go Short, and short again every 100 pips it goes against you and keep repeating it.

Exit when over all profit is say $1000 or some other suitable number!!

Given enough money in the account, it'll have a 99.9% win ratio, and the 0.1% is where eventually a margin call will be reached.

And it's still possible to get so far out of the money, not even averaging down will get you back to profit for maybe months.

Adjust the 99.9% win rate depending on the risk your taking and the size of your account.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
Quoting M.A.C.Doug
absolute b.s, I challenge you to provide evidence of a single case of this occurring
It's kinda true, but there is always thus far a human element tweaking the system to respond to different market conditions.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
Been tweaking around with the system for a while tonight, and it seems to be consistantly generating pips. Next step is to import the code into windows, and make it into a MetaTrader-compatible EA.

Backtesting it from 01-Jan 2004 - 25 Aug 2009 and it has made.....

(still waiting)...


54222 pips.

heres a dump of some of the output it produced..

Inserted Code
05/20/09 15:45 put buy @ 1.37518 closed 05/20/09 15:54 @ 1.37878 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52218)
05/20/09 17:35 put sell @ 1.37887 closed 05/20/09 17:42 @ 1.37707 with 16 pips (Running Profit:52234)
05/20/09 20:03 put buy @ 1.38213 closed 05/20/09 21:24 @ 1.37923 with -31 pips (Running Profit:52203)
05/21/09 16:26 put sell @ 1.37602 closed 05/21/09 16:48 @ 1.37832 with -25 pips (Running Profit:52178)
05/21/09 17:51 put buy @ 1.37979 closed 05/21/09 18:09 @ 1.38179 with 18 pips (Running Profit:52196)
05/21/09 18:39 put buy @ 1.38419 closed 05/21/09 18:48 @ 1.38779 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52230)
05/21/09 18:55 put buy @ 1.38826 closed 05/21/09 20:09 @ 1.39186 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52264)
05/22/09 09:20 put sell @ 1.39766 closed 05/22/09 09:28 @ 1.39406 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52298)
05/22/09 15:08 put buy @ 1.39797 closed 05/22/09 15:14 @ 1.40157 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52332)
05/22/09 15:23 put buy @ 1.40032 closed 05/22/09 15:30 @ 1.39872 with -18 pips (Running Profit:52314)
05/25/09 02:06 put sell @ 1.40053 closed 05/25/09 04:41 @ 1.39823 with 21 pips (Running Profit:52335)
05/25/09 10:07 put sell @ 1.39575 closed 05/25/09 10:15 @ 1.39785 with -23 pips (Running Profit:52312)
05/26/09 08:45 put sell @ 1.39579 closed 05/26/09 08:53 @ 1.39379 with 18 pips (Running Profit:52330)
05/26/09 08:59 put sell @ 1.39433 closed 05/26/09 10:07 @ 1.39193 with 22 pips (Running Profit:52352)
05/26/09 10:51 put sell @ 1.38903 closed 05/26/09 12:44 @ 1.38663 with 22 pips (Running Profit:52374)
05/26/09 16:00 put buy @ 1.39321 closed 05/26/09 16:13 @ 1.39621 with 28 pips (Running Profit:52402)
05/26/09 16:19 put buy @ 1.39744 closed 05/27/09 07:54 @ 1.39444 with -32 pips (Running Profit:52370)
05/27/09 14:57 put buy @ 1.39438 closed 05/27/09 15:26 @ 1.39788 with 33 pips (Running Profit:52403)
05/27/09 16:24 put sell @ 1.38951 closed 05/27/09 16:56 @ 1.39221 with -29 pips (Running Profit:52374)
05/27/09 16:59 put sell @ 1.39275 closed 05/27/09 17:04 @ 1.38915 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52408)
05/27/09 18:02 put buy @ 1.39269 closed 05/27/09 18:15 @ 1.39489 with 20 pips (Running Profit:52428)
05/27/09 19:39 put sell @ 1.38872 closed 05/27/09 19:47 @ 1.39002 with -15 pips (Running Profit:52413)
05/27/09 20:02 put sell @ 1.39098 closed 05/27/09 20:24 @ 1.39318 with -24 pips (Running Profit:52389)
05/28/09 10:03 put buy @ 1.38776 closed 05/28/09 10:30 @ 1.38516 with -28 pips (Running Profit:52361)
05/28/09 15:22 put buy @ 1.39215 closed 05/28/09 15:30 @ 1.39505 with 27 pips (Running Profit:52388)
05/28/09 15:42 put buy @ 1.39479 closed 05/28/09 16:02 @ 1.39219 with -28 pips (Running Profit:52360)
05/28/09 17:07 put buy @ 1.39622 closed 05/28/09 17:53 @ 1.39492 with -15 pips (Running Profit:52345)
05/28/09 18:23 put sell @ 1.39326 closed 05/28/09 18:57 @ 1.39106 with 20 pips (Running Profit:52365)
05/29/09 03:36 put buy @ 1.39809 closed 05/29/09 07:45 @ 1.39979 with 15 pips (Running Profit:52380)
05/29/09 09:31 put sell @ 1.4007 closed 05/29/09 11:18 @ 1.4039 with -34 pips (Running Profit:52346)
05/29/09 11:40 put buy @ 1.40735 closed 05/29/09 12:33 @ 1.41055 with 30 pips (Running Profit:52376)
05/29/09 12:42 put buy @ 1.41144 closed 05/29/09 13:52 @ 1.40904 with -26 pips (Running Profit:52350)
05/29/09 16:30 put sell @ 1.41359 closed 05/29/09 16:48 @ 1.41149 with 19 pips (Running Profit:52369)
05/29/09 18:22 put sell @ 1.41305 closed 05/29/09 22:58 @ 1.41615 with -33 pips (Running Profit:52336)
06/01/09 08:56 put buy @ 1.41825 closed 06/01/09 09:30 @ 1.42185 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52370)
06/01/09 09:33 put buy @ 1.42194 closed 06/01/09 10:13 @ 1.42394 with 18 pips (Running Profit:52388)
06/01/09 10:32 put sell @ 1.42396 closed 06/01/09 10:37 @ 1.42216 with 16 pips (Running Profit:52404)
06/01/09 14:34 put buy @ 1.41974 closed 06/01/09 16:01 @ 1.42224 with 23 pips (Running Profit:52427)
06/01/09 19:44 put buy @ 1.42046 closed 06/01/09 20:02 @ 1.42256 with 19 pips (Running Profit:52446)
06/02/09 09:12 put buy @ 1.41407 closed 06/02/09 09:20 @ 1.41227 with -20 pips (Running Profit:52426)
06/02/09 09:26 put sell @ 1.41164 closed 06/02/09 11:52 @ 1.41434 with -29 pips (Running Profit:52397)
06/02/09 11:53 put buy @ 1.41484 closed 06/02/09 12:10 @ 1.41764 with 26 pips (Running Profit:52423)
06/02/09 12:16 put buy @ 1.41831 closed 06/02/09 12:28 @ 1.42061 with 21 pips (Running Profit:52444)
06/02/09 12:43 put buy @ 1.42163 closed 06/02/09 13:36 @ 1.42453 with 27 pips (Running Profit:52471)
06/02/09 15:19 put sell @ 1.42258 closed 06/02/09 15:49 @ 1.42498 with -26 pips (Running Profit:52445)
06/02/09 15:51 put buy @ 1.42557 closed 06/02/09 16:34 @ 1.42807 with 23 pips (Running Profit:52468)
06/02/09 17:05 put buy @ 1.43105 closed 06/02/09 17:10 @ 1.42975 with -15 pips (Running Profit:52453)
06/03/09 12:04 put buy @ 1.42359 closed 06/03/09 12:40 @ 1.42569 with 19 pips (Running Profit:52472)
06/03/09 13:34 put sell @ 1.41972 closed 06/03/09 14:05 @ 1.42282 with -33 pips (Running Profit:52439)
06/04/09 08:25 put buy @ 1.42078 closed 06/04/09 09:32 @ 1.42298 with 20 pips (Running Profit:52459)
06/04/09 12:26 put sell @ 1.41717 closed 06/04/09 13:11 @ 1.41447 with 25 pips (Running Profit:52484)
06/04/09 13:43 put sell @ 1.41536 closed 06/04/09 13:47 @ 1.41196 with 32 pips (Running Profit:52516)
06/04/09 13:53 put sell @ 1.41255 closed 06/04/09 13:56 @ 1.40965 with 27 pips (Running Profit:52543)
06/04/09 13:57 put sell @ 1.40965 closed 06/04/09 14:07 @ 1.41225 with -28 pips (Running Profit:52515)
06/04/09 14:08 put buy @ 1.41024 closed 06/04/09 14:36 @ 1.41314 with 27 pips (Running Profit:52542)
06/04/09 14:53 put buy @ 1.4147 closed 06/04/09 15:26 @ 1.4122 with -27 pips (Running Profit:52515)
06/04/09 15:54 put buy @ 1.41215 closed 06/04/09 16:03 @ 1.41525 with 29 pips (Running Profit:52544)
06/04/09 17:23 put buy @ 1.41992 closed 06/04/09 17:45 @ 1.41862 with -15 pips (Running Profit:52529)
06/05/09 09:11 put buy @ 1.42186 closed 06/05/09 09:47 @ 1.41936 with -27 pips (Running Profit:52502)
06/05/09 14:33 put buy @ 1.42371 closed 06/05/09 14:33 @ 1.42641 with 25 pips (Running Profit:52527)
06/05/09 14:35 put sell @ 1.42551 closed 06/05/09 14:41 @ 1.42231 with 30 pips (Running Profit:52557)
06/05/09 14:46 put sell @ 1.42116 closed 06/05/09 14:47 @ 1.41756 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52591)
06/05/09 14:49 put sell @ 1.41885 closed 06/05/09 14:52 @ 1.41525 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52625)
06/05/09 14:57 put sell @ 1.41319 closed 06/05/09 15:00 @ 1.40959 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52659)
06/05/09 15:04 put sell @ 1.4107 closed 06/05/09 15:14 @ 1.4074 with 31 pips (Running Profit:52690)
06/05/09 15:16 put sell @ 1.40904 closed 06/05/09 15:20 @ 1.40564 with 32 pips (Running Profit:52722)
06/05/09 15:21 put sell @ 1.40525 closed 06/05/09 15:36 @ 1.40175 with 33 pips (Running Profit:52755)
06/05/09 15:37 put sell @ 1.40294 closed 06/05/09 15:42 @ 1.40424 with -15 pips (Running Profit:52740)
06/05/09 15:45 put sell @ 1.40432 closed 06/05/09 16:07 @ 1.40072 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52774)
06/05/09 16:17 put buy @ 1.39921 closed 06/05/09 16:41 @ 1.40231 with 29 pips (Running Profit:52803)
06/05/09 17:00 put buy @ 1.40072 closed 06/05/09 17:23 @ 1.39932 with -16 pips (Running Profit:52787)
06/05/09 20:04 put sell @ 1.39794 closed 06/05/09 20:08 @ 1.39434 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52821)
06/08/09 09:10 put sell @ 1.39386 closed 06/08/09 09:29 @ 1.39086 with 28 pips (Running Profit:52849)
06/08/09 09:44 put sell @ 1.38896 closed 06/08/09 10:10 @ 1.38656 with 22 pips (Running Profit:52871)
06/08/09 10:26 put sell @ 1.38615 closed 06/08/09 11:13 @ 1.38855 with -26 pips (Running Profit:52845)
06/08/09 11:34 put sell @ 1.38651 closed 06/08/09 11:39 @ 1.38301 with 33 pips (Running Profit:52878)
06/08/09 11:56 put sell @ 1.38128 closed 06/08/09 12:21 @ 1.38358 with -25 pips (Running Profit:52853)
06/08/09 16:01 put sell @ 1.38398 closed 06/08/09 16:36 @ 1.38678 with -30 pips (Running Profit:52823)
06/08/09 18:23 put buy @ 1.3882 closed 06/08/09 19:00 @ 1.3912 with 28 pips (Running Profit:52851)
06/08/09 21:40 put buy @ 1.39211 closed 06/08/09 22:00 @ 1.39081 with -15 pips (Running Profit:52836)
06/09/09 01:26 put buy @ 1.39322 closed 06/09/09 03:49 @ 1.39072 with -27 pips (Running Profit:52809)
06/09/09 08:01 put sell @ 1.38901 closed 06/09/09 08:35 @ 1.39201 with -32 pips (Running Profit:52777)
06/09/09 08:43 put buy @ 1.39206 closed 06/09/09 09:12 @ 1.39396 with 17 pips (Running Profit:52794)
06/09/09 09:35 put buy @ 1.39604 closed 06/09/09 10:43 @ 1.39294 with -33 pips (Running Profit:52761)
06/09/09 13:34 put buy @ 1.39277 closed 06/09/09 13:51 @ 1.39627 with 33 pips (Running Profit:52794)
06/09/09 13:55 put buy @ 1.39758 closed 06/09/09 14:08 @ 1.39558 with -22 pips (Running Profit:52772)
06/09/09 14:23 put buy @ 1.39671 closed 06/09/09 15:12 @ 1.39991 with 30 pips (Running Profit:52802)
06/09/09 20:26 put buy @ 1.40686 closed 06/09/09 20:40 @ 1.40996 with 29 pips (Running Profit:52831)
06/10/09 09:48 put buy @ 1.4121 closed 06/10/09 10:33 @ 1.4106 with -17 pips (Running Profit:52814)
06/10/09 11:10 put sell @ 1.4129 closed 06/10/09 11:16 @ 1.411 with 17 pips (Running Profit:52831)
06/10/09 13:23 put buy @ 1.41257 closed 06/10/09 13:29 @ 1.41097 with -18 pips (Running Profit:52813)
06/10/09 14:17 put sell @ 1.40994 closed 06/10/09 14:28 @ 1.40804 with 17 pips (Running Profit:52830)
06/10/09 14:53 put sell @ 1.40849 closed 06/10/09 15:00 @ 1.40599 with 23 pips (Running Profit:52853)
06/10/09 15:06 put sell @ 1.40774 closed 06/10/09 15:31 @ 1.40554 with 20 pips (Running Profit:52873)
06/10/09 15:37 put buy @ 1.40355 closed 06/10/09 16:03 @ 1.40075 with -30 pips (Running Profit:52843)
06/11/09 14:38 put sell @ 1.39704 closed 06/11/09 14:42 @ 1.39854 with -17 pips (Running Profit:52826)
06/11/09 15:01 put buy @ 1.39879 closed 06/11/09 15:27 @ 1.40239 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52860)
06/11/09 15:39 put buy @ 1.40164 closed 06/11/09 15:46 @ 1.40414 with 23 pips (Running Profit:52883)
06/11/09 16:10 put buy @ 1.40419 closed 06/11/09 16:16 @ 1.40779 with 34 pips (Running Profit:52917)
06/11/09 16:17 put buy @ 1.40798 closed 06/11/09 19:02 @ 1.41118 with 30 pips (Running Profit:52947)
06/11/09 19:03 put buy @ 1.41178 closed 06/11/09 19:28 @ 1.41518 with 32 pips (Running Profit:52979)
06/11/09 19:30 put buy @ 1.41457 closed 06/11/09 19:59 @ 1.41327 with -15 pips (Running Profit:52964)
06/11/09 22:09 put sell @ 1.40957 closed 06/12/09 01:14 @ 1.41167 with -23 pips (Running Profit:52941)
06/12/09 02:24 put sell @ 1.41176 closed 06/12/09 02:29 @ 1.41006 with 15 pips (Running Profit:52956)
06/12/09 09:12 put sell @ 1.40885 closed 06/12/09 09:19 @ 1.40545 with 32 pips (Running Profit:52988)
06/12/09 13:25 put sell @ 1.40062 closed 06/12/09 13:32 @ 1.39872 with 17 pips (Running Profit:53005)
06/12/09 13:43 put sell @ 1.4003 closed 06/12/09 13:45 @ 1.3976 with 25 pips (Running Profit:53030)
06/12/09 13:56 put sell @ 1.4004 closed 06/12/09 14:24 @ 1.3977 with 25 pips (Running Profit:53055)
06/12/09 16:02 put buy @ 1.39425 closed 06/12/09 16:12 @ 1.39745 with 30 pips (Running Profit:53085)
06/15/09 00:00 put sell @ 1.39876 closed 06/15/09 03:50 @ 1.39546 with 31 pips (Running Profit:53116)
06/15/09 15:44 put sell @ 1.38479 closed 06/15/09 15:47 @ 1.38299 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53132)
06/15/09 16:31 put sell @ 1.38341 closed 06/15/09 17:01 @ 1.38121 with 20 pips (Running Profit:53152)
06/15/09 17:02 put sell @ 1.38049 closed 06/15/09 18:23 @ 1.37689 with 34 pips (Running Profit:53186)
06/15/09 18:31 put buy @ 1.3762 closed 06/15/09 18:59 @ 1.3782 with 18 pips (Running Profit:53204)
06/16/09 02:37 put sell @ 1.37587 closed 06/16/09 03:48 @ 1.37827 with -26 pips (Running Profit:53178)
06/16/09 03:56 put buy @ 1.37962 closed 06/16/09 04:19 @ 1.38172 with 19 pips (Running Profit:53197)
06/16/09 10:51 put buy @ 1.38698 closed 06/16/09 11:00 @ 1.39058 with 34 pips (Running Profit:53231)
06/16/09 11:01 put buy @ 1.39106 closed 06/16/09 11:31 @ 1.38926 with -20 pips (Running Profit:53211)
06/16/09 13:06 put buy @ 1.38883 closed 06/16/09 13:50 @ 1.39113 with 21 pips (Running Profit:53232)
06/16/09 14:00 put buy @ 1.39073 closed 06/16/09 14:31 @ 1.39283 with 19 pips (Running Profit:53251)
06/16/09 15:31 put sell @ 1.38759 closed 06/16/09 15:57 @ 1.38579 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53267)
06/16/09 18:49 put sell @ 1.38435 closed 06/17/09 01:15 @ 1.38145 with 27 pips (Running Profit:53294)
06/17/09 13:08 put buy @ 1.38555 closed 06/17/09 13:56 @ 1.38375 with -20 pips (Running Profit:53274)
06/17/09 14:53 put buy @ 1.38793 closed 06/17/09 16:32 @ 1.38533 with -28 pips (Running Profit:53246)
06/17/09 20:17 put buy @ 1.39435 closed 06/17/09 20:28 @ 1.39745 with 29 pips (Running Profit:53275)
06/18/09 11:02 put sell @ 1.39111 closed 06/18/09 11:14 @ 1.39311 with -22 pips (Running Profit:53253)
06/18/09 20:03 put sell @ 1.39012 closed 06/19/09 03:24 @ 1.39192 with -20 pips (Running Profit:53233)
06/19/09 10:38 put sell @ 1.39035 closed 06/19/09 10:46 @ 1.38855 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53249)
06/19/09 10:50 put sell @ 1.38902 closed 06/19/09 11:18 @ 1.39042 with -16 pips (Running Profit:53233)
06/19/09 12:05 put buy @ 1.39046 closed 06/19/09 12:13 @ 1.39326 with 26 pips (Running Profit:53259)
06/19/09 13:30 put sell @ 1.39347 closed 06/19/09 14:47 @ 1.39177 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53274)
06/19/09 17:34 put buy @ 1.39395 closed 06/19/09 17:48 @ 1.39745 with 33 pips (Running Profit:53307)
06/19/09 17:49 put buy @ 1.39762 closed 06/19/09 18:34 @ 1.39622 with -16 pips (Running Profit:53291)
06/19/09 22:42 put sell @ 1.39483 closed 06/19/09 22:46 @ 1.39313 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53306)
06/22/09 08:28 put sell @ 1.38695 closed 06/22/09 08:43 @ 1.38505 with 17 pips (Running Profit:53323)
06/22/09 12:25 put buy @ 1.38452 closed 06/22/09 16:05 @ 1.38632 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53339)
06/22/09 20:57 put buy @ 1.38621 closed 06/23/09 08:02 @ 1.38301 with -34 pips (Running Profit:53305)
06/23/09 12:41 put buy @ 1.39651 closed 06/23/09 13:37 @ 1.39881 with 21 pips (Running Profit:53326)
06/23/09 14:16 put buy @ 1.39784 closed 06/23/09 14:21 @ 1.40074 with 27 pips (Running Profit:53353)
06/23/09 17:31 put buy @ 1.40217 closed 06/23/09 18:01 @ 1.40387 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53368)
06/23/09 18:13 put buy @ 1.40775 closed 06/24/09 08:29 @ 1.41085 with 29 pips (Running Profit:53397)
06/24/09 11:31 put sell @ 1.40963 closed 06/24/09 12:09 @ 1.40723 with 22 pips (Running Profit:53419)
06/24/09 12:11 put sell @ 1.40693 closed 06/24/09 13:13 @ 1.40923 with -25 pips (Running Profit:53394)
06/24/09 13:29 put sell @ 1.40358 closed 06/24/09 13:45 @ 1.40048 with 29 pips (Running Profit:53423)
06/24/09 14:37 put buy @ 1.40611 closed 06/24/09 15:49 @ 1.40371 with -26 pips (Running Profit:53397)
06/24/09 16:20 put sell @ 1.40304 closed 06/24/09 16:25 @ 1.40114 with 17 pips (Running Profit:53414)
06/24/09 16:49 put buy @ 1.40317 closed 06/24/09 17:48 @ 1.40047 with -29 pips (Running Profit:53385)
06/24/09 18:19 put sell @ 1.39732 closed 06/24/09 19:17 @ 1.39902 with -19 pips (Running Profit:53366)
06/24/09 20:33 put sell @ 1.39389 closed 06/24/09 20:36 @ 1.39099 with 27 pips (Running Profit:53393)
06/24/09 20:39 put sell @ 1.38992 closed 06/24/09 20:40 @ 1.39132 with -16 pips (Running Profit:53377)
06/25/09 09:35 put sell @ 1.39327 closed 06/25/09 09:43 @ 1.39467 with -16 pips (Running Profit:53361)
06/25/09 15:59 put buy @ 1.39348 closed 06/25/09 16:18 @ 1.39548 with 18 pips (Running Profit:53379)
06/25/09 16:23 put sell @ 1.39538 closed 06/25/09 16:31 @ 1.39198 with 32 pips (Running Profit:53411)
06/25/09 19:25 put buy @ 1.39971 closed 06/25/09 20:03 @ 1.39801 with -19 pips (Running Profit:53392)
06/26/09 10:20 put sell @ 1.40191 closed 06/26/09 10:56 @ 1.40391 with -22 pips (Running Profit:53370)
06/26/09 11:45 put buy @ 1.4069 closed 06/26/09 12:25 @ 1.4087 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53386)
06/26/09 16:41 put sell @ 1.40644 closed 06/26/09 18:47 @ 1.40944 with -32 pips (Running Profit:53354)
06/26/09 19:14 put buy @ 1.41008 closed 06/26/09 19:36 @ 1.40808 with -22 pips (Running Profit:53332)
06/26/09 20:09 put sell @ 1.4072 closed 06/26/09 22:59 @ 1.4055 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53347)
06/29/09 11:05 put buy @ 1.4013 closed 06/29/09 11:28 @ 1.4 with -15 pips (Running Profit:53332)
06/29/09 12:17 put buy @ 1.40424 closed 06/29/09 13:09 @ 1.40594 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53347)
06/30/09 08:19 put buy @ 1.41396 closed 06/30/09 08:55 @ 1.41246 with -17 pips (Running Profit:53330)
06/30/09 15:16 put sell @ 1.40646 closed 06/30/09 16:15 @ 1.40286 with 34 pips (Running Profit:53364)
06/30/09 16:21 put sell @ 1.40164 closed 06/30/09 18:12 @ 1.40374 with -23 pips (Running Profit:53341)
07/01/09 14:16 put buy @ 1.40797 closed 07/01/09 14:29 @ 1.41087 with 27 pips (Running Profit:53368)
07/01/09 15:23 put buy @ 1.41384 closed 07/01/09 18:02 @ 1.41694 with 29 pips (Running Profit:53397)
07/02/09 04:18 put sell @ 1.41291 closed 07/02/09 04:25 @ 1.41021 with 25 pips (Running Profit:53422)
07/02/09 14:28 put sell @ 1.40513 closed 07/02/09 14:30 @ 1.40193 with 30 pips (Running Profit:53452)
07/02/09 23:25 put sell @ 1.39556 closed 07/03/09 02:50 @ 1.39716 with -18 pips (Running Profit:53434)
07/06/09 09:06 put sell @ 1.3929 closed 07/06/09 10:30 @ 1.3912 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53449)
07/06/09 15:40 put buy @ 1.39104 closed 07/06/09 15:49 @ 1.39294 with 17 pips (Running Profit:53466)
07/06/09 19:29 put buy @ 1.39642 closed 07/06/09 22:06 @ 1.39862 with 20 pips (Running Profit:53486)
07/07/09 08:23 put sell @ 1.39315 closed 07/07/09 09:15 @ 1.39115 with 18 pips (Running Profit:53504)
07/07/09 11:02 put buy @ 1.3971 closed 07/07/09 12:00 @ 1.3989 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53520)
07/08/09 02:53 put buy @ 1.38839 closed 07/08/09 03:08 @ 1.39059 with 20 pips (Running Profit:53540)
07/08/09 08:00 put sell @ 1.39148 closed 07/08/09 08:07 @ 1.38788 with 34 pips (Running Profit:53574)
07/08/09 08:29 put sell @ 1.38643 closed 07/08/09 08:43 @ 1.38963 with -34 pips (Running Profit:53540)
07/08/09 17:24 put sell @ 1.38751 closed 07/08/09 17:56 @ 1.38471 with 26 pips (Running Profit:53566)
07/09/09 07:47 put buy @ 1.39093 closed 07/09/09 08:49 @ 1.39403 with 29 pips (Running Profit:53595)
07/09/09 17:36 put buy @ 1.40026 closed 07/09/09 17:45 @ 1.40326 with 28 pips (Running Profit:53623)
07/09/09 17:47 put buy @ 1.40396 closed 07/09/09 18:23 @ 1.40656 with 24 pips (Running Profit:53647)
07/10/09 09:28 put sell @ 1.39163 closed 07/10/09 11:18 @ 1.38943 with 20 pips (Running Profit:53667)
07/10/09 14:14 put sell @ 1.39071 closed 07/10/09 14:20 @ 1.38871 with 18 pips (Running Profit:53685)
07/10/09 14:58 put sell @ 1.39307 closed 07/10/09 15:01 @ 1.39137 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53700)
07/10/09 15:54 put sell @ 1.39321 closed 07/10/09 15:57 @ 1.39131 with 17 pips (Running Profit:53717)
07/14/09 10:57 put sell @ 1.39976 closed 07/14/09 11:01 @ 1.39656 with 30 pips (Running Profit:53747)
07/14/09 15:12 put buy @ 1.39746 closed 07/14/09 15:36 @ 1.39936 with 17 pips (Running Profit:53764)
07/14/09 16:42 put sell @ 1.39574 closed 07/14/09 17:51 @ 1.39784 with -23 pips (Running Profit:53741)
07/14/09 19:17 put sell @ 1.39551 closed 07/14/09 19:27 @ 1.39311 with 22 pips (Running Profit:53763)
07/15/09 16:30 put buy @ 1.41052 closed 07/15/09 16:40 @ 1.40912 with -16 pips (Running Profit:53747)
07/16/09 12:23 put buy @ 1.4093 closed 07/16/09 12:32 @ 1.4111 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53763)
07/16/09 12:33 put buy @ 1.41126 closed 07/16/09 12:40 @ 1.41346 with 20 pips (Running Profit:53783)
07/16/09 12:45 put buy @ 1.41174 closed 07/16/09 13:30 @ 1.41454 with 26 pips (Running Profit:53809)
07/17/09 08:33 put sell @ 1.40992 closed 07/17/09 10:00 @ 1.40782 with 19 pips (Running Profit:53828)
07/17/09 15:16 put buy @ 1.41134 closed 07/17/09 18:58 @ 1.41324 with 17 pips (Running Profit:53845)
07/20/09 09:18 put buy @ 1.41759 closed 07/20/09 09:53 @ 1.42019 with 24 pips (Running Profit:53869)
07/20/09 10:04 put buy @ 1.42223 closed 07/20/09 16:47 @ 1.41983 with -26 pips (Running Profit:53843)
07/21/09 15:47 put sell @ 1.42463 closed 07/21/09 16:03 @ 1.42233 with 21 pips (Running Profit:53864)
07/21/09 22:21 put buy @ 1.42144 closed 07/22/09 02:00 @ 1.41944 with -22 pips (Running Profit:53842)
07/22/09 15:24 put sell @ 1.41757 closed 07/22/09 15:32 @ 1.41557 with 18 pips (Running Profit:53860)
07/22/09 17:09 put buy @ 1.42228 closed 07/22/09 17:49 @ 1.42098 with -15 pips (Running Profit:53845)
07/23/09 16:24 put buy @ 1.42475 closed 07/23/09 17:13 @ 1.42725 with 23 pips (Running Profit:53868)
07/23/09 21:49 put sell @ 1.42037 closed 07/23/09 22:11 @ 1.41857 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53884)
07/23/09 22:17 put sell @ 1.41702 closed 07/23/09 22:21 @ 1.41342 with 34 pips (Running Profit:53918)
07/23/09 22:23 put sell @ 1.41368 closed 07/23/09 22:50 @ 1.41558 with -21 pips (Running Profit:53897)
07/24/09 09:28 put buy @ 1.41916 closed 07/24/09 09:43 @ 1.42086 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53912)
07/24/09 17:04 put sell @ 1.4196 closed 07/24/09 18:30 @ 1.4219 with -25 pips (Running Profit:53887)
07/27/09 14:10 put sell @ 1.4271 closed 07/27/09 15:21 @ 1.4254 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53902)
07/28/09 09:00 put buy @ 1.42766 closed 07/28/09 09:07 @ 1.42946 with 16 pips (Running Profit:53918)
07/28/09 13:59 put sell @ 1.42239 closed 07/28/09 15:20 @ 1.42009 with 21 pips (Running Profit:53939)
07/28/09 16:01 put sell @ 1.41899 closed 07/28/09 16:14 @ 1.41609 with 27 pips (Running Profit:53966)
07/28/09 17:07 put sell @ 1.41706 closed 07/28/09 17:29 @ 1.41346 with 34 pips (Running Profit:54000)
07/29/09 08:21 put sell @ 1.41426 closed 07/29/09 08:23 @ 1.41186 with 22 pips (Running Profit:54022)
07/29/09 08:27 put sell @ 1.41145 closed 07/29/09 08:34 @ 1.41295 with -17 pips (Running Profit:54005)
07/29/09 09:01 put buy @ 1.41524 closed 07/29/09 09:45 @ 1.41724 with 18 pips (Running Profit:54023)
07/29/09 17:20 put sell @ 1.40359 closed 07/29/09 22:55 @ 1.40519 with -18 pips (Running Profit:54005)
07/30/09 01:44 put sell @ 1.40129 closed 07/30/09 02:10 @ 1.40329 with -22 pips (Running Profit:53983)
07/30/09 02:29 put buy @ 1.40548 closed 07/30/09 07:51 @ 1.40718 with 15 pips (Running Profit:53998)
07/30/09 15:47 put sell @ 1.40181 closed 07/30/09 16:08 @ 1.40421 with -26 pips (Running Profit:53972)
07/30/09 17:21 put buy @ 1.40792 closed 07/30/09 17:45 @ 1.40642 with -17 pips (Running Profit:53955)
07/31/09 15:32 put buy @ 1.4132 closed 07/31/09 16:11 @ 1.4154 with 20 pips (Running Profit:53975)
07/31/09 17:28 put buy @ 1.42279 closed 07/31/09 17:54 @ 1.42559 with 26 pips (Running Profit:54001)
07/31/09 17:55 put buy @ 1.42585 closed 08/03/09 01:31 @ 1.42925 with 32 pips (Running Profit:54033)
08/03/09 03:07 put sell @ 1.4239 closed 08/03/09 05:18 @ 1.4259 with -22 pips (Running Profit:54011)
08/03/09 08:49 put sell @ 1.42464 closed 08/03/09 08:55 @ 1.42234 with 21 pips (Running Profit:54032)
08/03/09 11:17 put buy @ 1.42789 closed 08/03/09 11:22 @ 1.43149 with 34 pips (Running Profit:54066)
08/03/09 15:41 put sell @ 1.4338 closed 08/03/09 16:05 @ 1.4362 with -26 pips (Running Profit:54040)
08/03/09 16:06 put buy @ 1.43726 closed 08/03/09 16:23 @ 1.44006 with 26 pips (Running Profit:54066)
08/03/09 16:24 put buy @ 1.43948 closed 08/03/09 17:02 @ 1.44248 with 28 pips (Running Profit:54094)
08/06/09 03:28 put buy @ 1.44143 closed 08/06/09 04:35 @ 1.43983 with -18 pips (Running Profit:54076)
08/06/09 12:15 put sell @ 1.43714 closed 08/06/09 13:00 @ 1.43874 with -18 pips (Running Profit:54058)
08/07/09 14:25 put buy @ 1.43672 closed 08/07/09 14:30 @ 1.44022 with 33 pips (Running Profit:54091)
08/07/09 14:39 put sell @ 1.43388 closed 08/07/09 14:45 @ 1.43028 with 34 pips (Running Profit:54125)
08/07/09 15:09 put buy @ 1.4353 closed 08/07/09 15:12 @ 1.4336 with -19 pips (Running Profit:54106)
08/07/09 15:14 put sell @ 1.43335 closed 08/07/09 15:29 @ 1.42985 with 33 pips (Running Profit:54139)
08/07/09 16:25 put sell @ 1.42374 closed 08/07/09 16:55 @ 1.42024 with 33 pips (Running Profit:54172)
08/07/09 17:46 put sell @ 1.4206 closed 08/07/09 17:54 @ 1.4188 with 16 pips (Running Profit:54188)
08/07/09 17:55 put sell @ 1.4186 closed 08/10/09 04:13 @ 1.4208 with -24 pips (Running Profit:54164)
08/10/09 09:12 put buy @ 1.42077 closed 08/10/09 09:32 @ 1.41877 with -22 pips (Running Profit:54142)
08/12/09 12:51 put buy @ 1.41636 closed 08/12/09 13:59 @ 1.41466 with -19 pips (Running Profit:54123)
08/12/09 18:07 put buy @ 1.42283 closed 08/12/09 20:16 @ 1.42103 with -20 pips (Running Profit:54103)
08/12/09 20:27 put sell @ 1.41688 closed 08/12/09 20:28 @ 1.41358 with 31 pips (Running Profit:54134)
08/12/09 20:30 put sell @ 1.41412 closed 08/12/09 20:43 @ 1.41562 with -17 pips (Running Profit:54117)
08/12/09 20:50 put buy @ 1.41765 closed 08/12/09 20:55 @ 1.42115 with 33 pips (Running Profit:54150)
08/13/09 14:00 put buy @ 1.4245 closed 08/13/09 14:04 @ 1.428 with 33 pips (Running Profit:54183)
08/14/09 15:57 put sell @ 1.42439 closed 08/14/09 17:28 @ 1.42209 with 21 pips (Running Profit:54204)
08/18/09 16:16 put buy @ 1.4106 closed 08/18/09 17:15 @ 1.4124 with 16 pips (Running Profit:54220)
08/19/09 14:24 put sell @ 1.4095 closed 08/19/09 14:43 @ 1.4116 with -23 pips (Running Profit:54197)
08/19/09 16:31 put buy @ 1.42013 closed 08/19/09 17:02 @ 1.42373 with 34 pips (Running Profit:54231)
08/19/09 17:56 put buy @ 1.42469 closed 08/19/09 21:06 @ 1.42309 with -18 pips (Running Profit:54213)
08/21/09 09:38 put buy @ 1.42841 closed 08/21/09 10:49 @ 1.43011 with 15 pips (Running Profit:54228)
08/21/09 12:16 put buy @ 1.43318 closed 08/21/09 14:30 @ 1.43488 with 15 pips (Running Profit:54243)
08/21/09 16:25 put sell @ 1.43255 closed 08/21/09 16:48 @ 1.42935 with 30 pips (Running Profit:54273)
08/25/09 08:10 put sell @ 1.42752 closed 08/25/09 08:47 @ 1.43032 with -30 pips (Running Profit:54243)
08/25/09 15:12 put buy @ 1.43548 closed 01/01/70 00:00 @ 1.43435 with -13 pips (Running Profit:54230)
08/25/09 15:19 put buy @ 1.43503 closed 01/01/70 00:00 @ 1.43435 with -8 pips (Running Profit:54222)
Theres no way anyone will figure out how it works looking at those trades but maybe some experienced trader could analyze these trades and tell me if they seem "intelligent"
Why are you wasting you time asking people questions that they can't answer. Demo test the bot on live data for a couple months and see how it works. And then when you're comfertable with it, use proper money management and try it out on a real live accunt.

I'm demo trading this these days... waiting for it to bite the dust . Login details for it. (it's my own home brewed bot)

Login : 2406107
Password : wfi5xl
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