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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #9,521
  • May 23, 2012 9:14am May 23, 2012 9:14am
Quoting BroncoCap
That seems to be the value I see as well. I'm more curious on the stop market slippage, but it will take much longer to build a significant dataset, along with the fact that the std dev of slippage will likely be much, much larger. Time will tell...


I suspect the slippage for stop order is higher compare to limit order because MB's LP can reject your order if the price moving fast therefore sending back your order request again and again until it is accepted by LP.

I do not have much slippage data on stop order but speaking from experience i think the negative slippage should be slightly higher than 0.2-0.3 pip.

I had a negative slippage about 30pips on stop order but the max positive slippage on limit order was about 10pips only.
  • #9,522
  • May 23, 2012 9:24am May 23, 2012 9:24am
EURUSD on Free EXN freezing again now.

This problem remain unsolved since reported a week ago.
  • #9,523
  • Edited 9:57am May 23, 2012 9:27am | Edited 9:57am
Hello Justin,

I just had a really bad experience that would like to discuss.

Around 2pm GMT I had a short position on EUR/USD when my Desktop Pro platform stopped working. I had a limit order (1.2673) to close that position and price traded through it but the position didn't get closed. I called the trade desk and they said they were having problems, my position showed in my phone, the web platform and desktop pro. They told me they would call me back when the issue was solved.

I attempted many times through the different platforms to close that position because I was concerned about it. At a certain point, price is trading 40 pips in profit for my original posiiton. And then I get a call saying that i have an open position, in the opposite direction with a 40+ pip loss and that everything is working now, so i can close the position now.

This seems outrageous to me. I believe the least MB Trading could do in this situation is revert any trade that happened after the issues. I mean, if not even the trade desk can place a trade to show in the account, how can anyone know what is being executed and what not.

Overall I've had a good experience with MB, but this has me very worried.

Thanks
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  • #9,524
  • May 23, 2012 11:55am May 23, 2012 11:55am
Quoting tricello
Hello Justin,

I just had a really bad experience that would like to discuss.

Around 2pm GMT I had a short position on EUR/USD when my Desktop Pro platform stopped working. I had a limit order (1.2673) to close that position and price traded through it but the position didn't get closed. I called the trade desk and they said they were having problems, my position showed in my phone, the web platform and desktop pro. They told me they would call me back when the issue was solved.

I attempted many times through the different platforms to close...
Here is my take, but before that, you'll need to send the trade specifics including acct and trade numbers to Justin via Private Message. In the end, it would be good to get the resolution posted here.

Back to the action...appears you were short (great entry by the way) and the limit was ultimately filled, albeit, with an incorrect timestamp. The 15:08:46 fill appears to be your limit.

Now the market fill at 15:01:30, I don't know if this was one of your frantic closes or initiated by the trade desk. I believe when the trade desk performs the order, the Trader ID field will say so...in short, I think either you or the trade desk was able to flatten the position, but either a) the limit was filled but not reported or b) limit was never cancelled. I think 'a' to be correct, but pure conjecture.

Anyways, please share what you learn and any resolution.

Cheers!
  • #9,525
  • May 23, 2012 12:50pm May 23, 2012 12:50pm
Quoting BroncoCap
Here is my take, but before that, you'll need to send the trade specifics including acct and trade numbers to Justin via Private Message. In the end, it would be good to get the resolution posted here.
The trade specifics have been already sent to the appropriate department @MB Trading. I'll post the resolution as soon as I hear back from them.
  • #9,526
  • May 23, 2012 10:30pm May 23, 2012 10:30pm
Quoting QuadrupleX
LOL!! damage control crew in service!
Quant, don't you know that this thread is run by the main cheerleaders and the plants? Just move on because if you touch a raw nerve by asking for information then they will ban you. The rules are that you cannot ask any incriminating questions. The only thing you are supposed to do is praise the broker, the cheerleaders and the plants.
  • #9,527
  • May 23, 2012 11:04pm May 23, 2012 11:04pm
Quoting wwwin
... if you touch a raw nerve by asking for information then they will ban you. The rules are that you cannot ask any incriminating questions.
That is B.S. and you know it.

For everyone else who is reading this if you have the time go back and read through this thread. Many posters have asked questions and made statements that could be looked upon as touching a "raw nerve" or "incriminating" but yet they are still here posting away to their merry hearts content.
  • #9,528
  • May 23, 2012 11:07pm May 23, 2012 11:07pm
Quoting IndyTrader
That's as opposed to "workers at other brokers," which is the only reason someone would bother keeping up and posting on a board for a broker that they have no interest in using.
Indeed.

I find that to be rather strange behavior myself.
  • #9,529
  • May 24, 2012 8:03am May 24, 2012 8:03am
Freeze again!
  • #9,530
  • May 24, 2012 8:10am May 24, 2012 8:10am
Quoting ForexQuant
Freeze again!
They cannot handle fast markets, at least on MT4. Desktop Pro was stable, but I had +9.2p slippage on a limit. There is a fundamental issue with their order routing. +9.2p is awesome, but no way there were not 2 micros of in-house limits between my limit and my fill. The matching engine has problems...it was to my advantage today, but tomorrow it will be to my detriment, I'm sure.
  • #9,531
  • May 24, 2012 8:13am May 24, 2012 8:13am
Quoting BroncoCap
They cannot handle fast markets, at least on MT4. Desktop Pro was stable, but I had +9.2p slippage on a limit. There is a fundamental issue with their order routing. +9.2p is awesome, but no way there were not 2 micros of in-house limits between my limit and my fill. The matching engine has problems...it was to my advantage today, but tomorrow it will be to my detriment, I'm sure.
I was in on spike on EUR/USD probably was mine 2 micros!
  • #9,532
  • May 24, 2012 8:14am May 24, 2012 8:14am
MBT is beginning to worry me, as I stated in my response to Quant, their order matching cannot keep up with fast markets (at least from what I can 'see' on Desktop Pro). Also, seems like a new ~150 micro lot trader was on today and always was a 0.1p closer to bid/ask than me--darn you!

Great day for limit slippage (but it worries me just the same). 100,000 units traded.

+30.3p limit; 44 micro buys had +3.5pips; 38k micro sells had +26.8pips (dominated by the 2 micro +9.2p/micro slippage as 1.26 was hit)

-5.5p stop market; 6 micro buys had -1.3pips; 12 micro sells had -4.2pips.

Again, I'll let this go on Friday, but I think a discussion on order matching may be fruitful (observations, ideas, Justin's inside knowledge).

Cheers!
BroncoCap
  • #9,533
  • May 24, 2012 8:16am May 24, 2012 8:16am
Quoting signorx
I was in on spike on EUR/USD probably was mine 2 micros!
but I don't like it. It was a fast market, but not that fast, if I can remove all my acct info from my screen recording, I'll post the video of the trading.
  • #9,534
  • May 24, 2012 8:23am May 24, 2012 8:23am
Quoting BroncoCap
They cannot handle fast markets, at least on MT4. Desktop Pro was stable, but I had +9.2p slippage on a limit. There is a fundamental issue with their order routing. +9.2p is awesome, but no way there were not 2 micros of in-house limits between my limit and my fill. The matching engine has problems...it was to my advantage today, but tomorrow it will be to my detriment, I'm sure.
Guess what? PFL-MT4 did not freeze, it was just Free EXN. So the problem should be caused by the LP's feed because if one of their LP fails to update quote then the negative spread will happened on MT4 and therefore freeze the platform.

It is already 10 days since I made my 1st complaint. Like I said my voice alone is not enough for them to make a serious investigation. I still remember that the previous freezing problem on PFL-MT4 resolved only when more and more people showed their concern here. I didnt notice any freeze on PFL-MT4 since then, so this kind of problem is not something cannot be resolved.
  • #9,535
  • May 24, 2012 8:29am May 24, 2012 8:29am
Quoting ForexQuant
Guess what? PFL-MT4 did not freeze, it is just Free EXN. So the problem should be caused by the LP's feed because if one of their LP fails to update quote then the negative spread will happened on MT4 and therefore freeze the platform.

It already been 10 days since I made my 1st complaint. Like I said my voice alone is not enough for them to make a serious investigation. I think I am right.
That speaks volumes, especially, since they could just apply the 'fix' that worked with PFL-MT4 to the FreeEXN-MT4. Sounds like they should use some of that $1M rebates paid money and hire another programmer or two (but please don't as I like my rebates!)...net-net, they have either growing pains or a unwillingness to address issues (assuming those with problems have contacted appropriate MBT employees as this forum is not the best first point of contact).
  • #9,536
  • May 24, 2012 8:42am May 24, 2012 8:42am
Bronco: its probably not the matching engine but the quote servers. I had lagging quotes during fast markets very often but executions were inline with the 'real' market. But that was more than a year ago (on navigator btw). I would recommend comparing your executions with another price feed and see if your slippage is only due to lagged quotes. This is an ongoing problem since like forever.
  • #9,537
  • May 24, 2012 8:46am May 24, 2012 8:46am
Quoting shrike
Bronco: its probably not the matching engine but the quote servers. I had lagging quotes during fast markets very often but executions were inline with the 'real' market. But that was more than a year ago (on navigator btw). I would recommend comparing your executions with another price feed and see if your slippage is only due to lagged quotes. This is an ongoing problem since like forever.
Smart, very smart, and something I've considered, esp. seeing Tricello's post yesterday. Still does not explain how I received 9.2pips slippage as there must have been resting limit orders between mine and the market, although, I was just doing a thought experiment on how one would program MBT's EXN. Given limit orders do not move, my guess is orders like mine get shuffled from LP to LP, bypassing any in-house limits, or something, I've just started to ponder...

Guess I'll load another feed into my already cluttered desktop--mental note: grab that extra monitor from work and get it hooked up!

Cheers all!
  • #9,538
  • May 24, 2012 8:55am May 24, 2012 8:55am
I dont think its reasonable to assume that there are client limit orders sitting every few pips if you watch the marketdepth on navigator. Not even on Eur/Usd pfl book.
  • #9,539
  • May 24, 2012 9:10am May 24, 2012 9:10am
Quoting shrike
I dont think its reasonable to assume that there are client limit orders sitting every few pips if you watch the marketdepth on navigator. Not even on Eur/Usd pfl book.
Duh, plus I was thinking of ask side limits, not buy side, not enough caffeine this morning...

Yeah, watching it frame-by-frame and assuming LP's use 500 micro size, there were no small bids anywhere near best bid-ask for at least 10pips. Only when the market slowed and reversed a bit did MBT orders come in. Basically chaos, no way to ensure an orderly market for those few seconds. As always, a learning experience.
  • #9,540
  • May 24, 2012 9:24am May 24, 2012 9:24am
Quoting BroncoCap
Smart, very smart, and something I've considered, esp. seeing Tricello's post yesterday. Still does not explain how I received 9.2pips slippage as there must have been resting limit orders between mine and the market, although, I was just doing a thought experiment on how one would program MBT's EXN. Given limit orders do not move, my guess is orders like mine get shuffled from LP to LP, bypassing any in-house limits, or something, I've just started to ponder...

Guess I'll load another feed into my already ciluttered desktop--mental note:...
I wont be surprise for your slippage because there was a spiked. Slippage caused by high volatility is normal and acceptable. However i could not accept it if the slippage is caused by platform freeze. Imagine that the mt4 freeze and the quote resume at 100pips away from your original stoploss, i dont know you but i certainly dont want to face this kind of risk.
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