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Where are the pros ??

  • #21
  • Edited 2:26am May 10, 2006 1:23am | Edited 2:26am
Quoting Darkstar
I think a pro(fessional) is anyone who makes a living by using their skills in a given profession. This doesn't imply that they are an expert or a master, just that they have established a level of skill sufficient to sustain themselves.
I agree 1000% as you couldn't have said it better!

At some point every trader needs to mature to the point where they abandon the "newbie", "n00b", and "wanna-be trader" titles and accept the decision making responsiblities that come with the title.

I've often heard traders dismiss their repeated mistakes because they are "newbs", allowing them an escape route from accepting fault for the decision.

Yet, a couple of these people had as much trading experience as myself!

So, you're correct; what does seperate a pro from a newbie?

The ability to sustain a living and grow capital at the same time. That's what every pro commerical trader that works in the PropFX division, commercial trading for banks, institutions, etc, do every single day!

I DON'T care if you trade from a broom closet in the basement, huddled in the corner with a Pentium I laptop on a pile of dirty laundry....if you can sustain a living and increase capital procurement, YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL TRADER.

Every Drivers ED student as some point must stop being a student and become a driver and accept the state requirements of responsibility in order to drive alone on the highway....traders need to do the exact same thing.

Tell me the difference between Rob Booker, Woodie, Jes Black, or any other person that people in this forum idolize as PRO's.....I think you'll find that the fundamental likeness is the same.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #22
  • May 10, 2006 1:58am May 10, 2006 1:58am
Hey Mudd, did you have a picture of my trading room in mind when you wrote this?

Quoting MuddBuddha
I DON'T care if you trade from a broom closet in the basement, huddled in the corner with a Pentium I laptop on a pile of dirty laundry....if you can sustain a living and increase capital percurement, YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL TRADER.
  • #23
  • May 10, 2006 2:21am May 10, 2006 2:21am
Quoting Isotonic
Hey Mudd, did you have a picture of my trading room in mind when you wrote this?
Or me?
  • #24
  • May 10, 2006 2:29am May 10, 2006 2:29am
Your qoute, Eastmaels, "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" is by far the best trading advice!

Excellent choice!

....just wanted to point that out.
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #25
  • May 10, 2006 3:01am May 10, 2006 3:01am
Quoting MuddBuddha
Your qoute, Eastmaels, "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" is by far the best trading advice!

Excellent choice!

....just wanted to point that out.
Thanks MB! And it does not apply to trading only..
Okay, this is my 900th post... oh yeah.. oh yeah...
100 more to go and I'm gonna get that forex factory goodies!! Have you prepared them Merlin the Great???
  • #26
  • Edited 9:07am May 10, 2006 8:58am | Edited 9:07am
Quoting james16
6. after 22 years doing this im not sure what the definition of a pro trader is.
ive always thought a pro trader is someone who consistently takes money out of the market. subjective and vague but thats the best i got. i play golf a lot and several times a year i get paired with someone i dont know who turns out to be a pro trader. i always keep my mouth shut. why? not sure but whenever i start feeling giddy and good at this i get my ass handed to me.
You may be putting to much weight on the word "professional." I would say that a professional trader is one who derives their primary source of income from trading. For example, if you just trade on the side, you may be good but you're not a pro. If you're a doctor or lawyer who has a nice little trading account on the side, you're not a pro trader, you're a doctor or lawyer who trades on the side. There may be people like you, James, that are kind of half and half, in which case I could see you saying you're both, but for the most part they fall in one camp or the other.

Think about it, if you're a pro athlete, what does that really mean? That you play some sport for a living. Of course, that term implies all sorts of things about your skill level and athletic ability. Is it the same for trading? To an extent, I'd say, but not as much.

Oh, and I totally have the same experiences with the ass-handing thing.
  • #27
  • May 10, 2006 9:05am May 10, 2006 9:05am
Quoting MuddBuddha
Your qoute, Eastmaels, "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" is by far the best trading advice!

Excellent choice!

....just wanted to point that out.
This can be dangerous if taken the wrong way. Oftentimes I see people thinking that in order to be a "real trader" they need to do something totally original and/or different from everybody else. They want a system that's a "secret weapon."

Sometimes they build a system and get emotionally attached to it, even when the market's telling them it needs changing/scrapping. That has happened to me before. Then my attitude changed and I just concentrated on finding things that work, rather than things that work AND feed my ego. It's hard enough to be consistently profitable as it is.

Of course, there is a secret weapon that hides in plain sight. It's called good psychology and risk/money management. Combine that with a little bit of patience and a positive expectency and you should be ok.
  • #28
  • May 10, 2006 9:10am May 10, 2006 9:10am
Why is being called a pro such a big thing? For me it's just a label.
If you know inside of you that you're a pro trader, and you're satisfied with your definistion of a pro, you won't need others to define it for you.

Well, okay, I may be wrong.. Maybe you do need to have a clear definition of what it means to be a pro because it is the one that you will aspire or mold yourself to be... So, if ever I'm going to define what it means to be a pro trader, I'll keep it simple.

Just my 2 rusty old cents..
  • #29
  • May 10, 2006 9:42am May 10, 2006 9:42am
Quoting eastmaels
If you know inside of you that you're a pro trader, and you're satisfied with your definistion of a pro, you won't need others to define it for you.
I like the way you think, Eastmaels. I think you and I share a lot of the same mindset characteristics. I am what I chose to be....not what others tell me I am or what I can or cannot be!

I have the military to thank for my attitude about such things, but yours may be natural....which puts you one up on me!

I think you'll succeed very well in trading, dude!
Capital Preservation is key to long term wealth accumulation
  • #30
  • May 10, 2006 10:24am May 10, 2006 10:24am
Quoting Darkstar
Advice? Figure out "why" price is moving. Once you know that, predicting where it will go is easy...
Well said , Darkstar I like your style
!!!!!!
  • #31
  • May 10, 2006 11:26am May 10, 2006 11:26am
Quoting eastmaels
Why is being called a pro such a big thing? For me it's just a label.
If you know inside of you that you're a pro trader, and you're satisfied with your definistion of a pro, you won't need others to define it for you.
Well, but that's like saying if you know inside you're a pro athlete that you are one. Most people would disagree with that. I've found highly subjective thinking, placing too much weight on one's opinion, to be absolute anaethema in trading.

Now, if you changed this a bit to say you know you have what it takes to be a pro, then more power to you brother.
  • #32
  • May 10, 2006 12:41pm May 10, 2006 12:41pm
Quoting Mike Jolley
Forex is the retail electronic currency market. Doesn't sound so vast now, does it? "Trading" technically includes things like developing a product and starting a business, so I think that's the vaster subject.
Mike,

Unfortunately I don't agree with you. I've read some books, attended some seminars, involved in demo and real trades, read several articles and tutorials, tested many strategies, passed a TA course, visited Forex forums, etc. and I'm still at the tip of the iceberg.

I can assure you that Forex is VAST. It's the hugest market in the world. The simple reason is that in contrary to most other markets it doesn't belong to one location or country.

Because of the nature of the Forex and because it is VAST you need to work hard to get the big picture and be able to become successful.

Comparing Forex market with starting a new business is totally wrong. I don't know why you tried to make such comparison. I'm confused what was your intention of this post. Could you elaborate on that?
  • #33
  • May 10, 2006 2:40pm May 10, 2006 2:40pm
Quoting aparsai
Because of the nature of the Forex and because it is VAST you need to work hard to get the big picture and be able to become successful
I find this very interesting indeed. Up front I will say that I do not consider myself a pro, I do not support myself with FX, and I'm sure there are 100 traders on this forum alone who have much more insight and experience than I.

All of that aside - I firmly believe, 100%, that the big picture is extremely easy to find, despite the vast nature of FX. I'll give you a huge hint, look at the price action on your charts. It's all there for the world to see.

Now - again I will qualify what I say as I'm sure it will bring some ridicule. If it's that simple why am I not a millionaire? Why don't I merely support myself with FX? etc, etc. My answer - I will be a millionaire sooner than later; and this takes care of the second question. Yeah, its a bold statement but I have faith in my ability - hopefully that's enough.

I don't mean to offend with any of this - just my opinion.
  • #34
  • Edited 6:10pm May 10, 2006 5:58pm | Edited 6:10pm
Quoting Far From Average
I like the way you think, Eastmaels. I think you and I share a lot of the same mindset characteristics. I am what I chose to be....not what others tell me I am or what I can or cannot be!

I have the military to thank for my attitude about such things, but yours may be natural....which puts you one up on me!

I think you'll succeed very well in trading, dude!
Thanks MB. Always nice to meet like-minded people..

Mine is not natural too... I just learned it through life.
Your military training is part of life too..
So your experience and mine are basically the same. Well, I think it is...
Quoting Far From Average
Well, but that's like saying if you know inside you're a pro athlete that you are one. Most people would disagree with that. I've found highly subjective thinking, placing too much weight on one's opinion, to be absolute anaethema in trading.

Now, if you changed this a bit to say you know you have what it takes to be a pro, then more power to you brother.
Everybody has the right to his or her own opinion/belief. If it helps you achieve your goal (plus maybe some other issues), then there's no problem with it. But to make others think the way you want them to think may be another thing. Again, this is just my opinion (and I may be reacting too much and may be reading you wrong so I'll just stop here ).

Anyway, thanks for the power bro!!

Happy trading!

East
  • #35
  • Last Post: May 10, 2006 9:35pm May 10, 2006 9:35pm
Quoting eastmaels
Everybody has the right to his or her own opinion/belief. If it helps you achieve your goal (plus maybe some other issues), then there's no problem with it. But to make others think the way you want them to think may be another thing. Again, this is just my opinion (and I may be reacting too much and may be reading you wrong so I'll just stop here ).
Yeah, you have the right to it, but sometimes it will be counterproductive to adhere to your opinion. You'll run into that in trading again and again. The market can be SCREAMING at you that you're wrong, for example, but people adhere to their opinion and keep piling on positions as the price goes against them. Suddenly, they've blown their account.

When that happens, you learn the limits of subjectivity and of your own opinions.

I'm just saying that where things can be objectively quantified, go by what you see and not what you think (or so want to believe is the truth). The Koan I posted covered this concept.
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