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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #9,361
  • Apr 30, 2012 7:38am Apr 30, 2012 7:38am
Quoting IndyTrader
Nope, all is well. Your account might have an issue, you should contact support and have them look.
Happened to me today, see following screenshots:


Support has been contacted and I will update w/ the timeliness of the response and corrective actions.

BroncoCap
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: limit1.jpg Size: 214 KB
Attached Image
  • #9,362
  • Apr 30, 2012 11:43pm Apr 30, 2012 11:43pm
Jesus f**king Christ do not trade on MBT during news. Execution was 20 pips away from where the market was actually. Expensive lesson learnt today.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #9,363
  • Edited 3:09am May 1, 2012 2:56am | Edited 3:09am
Quoting BroncoCap
Happened to me today, see following screenshots:


Support has been contacted and I will update w/ the timeliness of the response and corrective actions.

BroncoCap
Once again this morning, the same issue : here is a snapshot of an order.
As you can see, the order is entered and accepted by the server at 03:20:59 and executed at 03:21:25, so it was not a marketable order, as it appeared on the market during 26 seconds before its execution. But a 0.04 commission fee applied instead of a 0.03 payment.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Fee issue.jpg Size: 43 KB
  • #9,364
  • May 1, 2012 4:34am May 1, 2012 4:34am
Quoting Traderji
Jesus f**king Christ do not trade on MBT during news. Execution was 20 pips away from where the market was actually. Expensive lesson learnt today.
Do you suggest you are trading during news with market orders?
  • #9,365
  • Edited 6:16am May 1, 2012 6:02am | Edited 6:16am
Quoting JanPoko
Do you suggest you are trading during news with market orders?

What is wrong with that? If the venue has enough liquidity then a retail trader like me should not have any issue getting filled. Some slippage is to be expected but dammit 20 pips? When the entire move was 50pips. Ridiculous.

It has been mentioned before but Pay For Limits has serious lack of liquidity. If you are trading in micro $1000 lots then no problem but try anything more than 1 standard lot and suddenly no fills. That is pathetic.

Also check out

http://www.fxintel.com/live/

Compare the spreads for MBT Free EXN and PFL. The bloody Free EXN has better spreads and no commissions. Anybody who says PFL does not have liquidity problems is delusional.


PS: Before Indytrader jumps in here and goes into fanboi mode - please don't bother. Unless you start paying for my trading costs with MBT I really don't give a shit that it is all rainbows and puppies for you.


EDIT: Spelling corrected.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #9,366
  • May 1, 2012 7:24am May 1, 2012 7:24am
Quoting Traderji
Compare the spreads for MBT Free EXN and PFL. The bloody Free EXN has better spreads and no commissions. Anybody who says PFL does not have liquidity problems is delusional.
Honestly I completely have no idea why Free EXN plan has lower spread than PFL plan. It just not making any sense at all.
  • #9,367
  • May 1, 2012 7:27am May 1, 2012 7:27am
Quoting tradeoffice
Once again this morning, the same issue : here is a snapshot of an order.
As you can see, the order is entered and accepted by the server at 03:20:59 and executed at 03:21:25, so it was not a marketable order, as it appeared on the market during 26 seconds before its execution. But a 0.04 commission fee applied instead of a 0.03 payment.
Attachment
TradeOffice,
I had some problem yesterday and AGAIN, same problem today. For my daily PnL reporting, I am assuming they fix this issue, but it is especially annoying. Yesterday was 4 incorrect rebates, today is 6. Utterly sucks having to run daily reports and not have the correct values. No resolution on yesterdays call to support, chat w/ support, AND trouble ticket. A bit too slow for my liking...

BroncoCap
  • #9,368
  • May 1, 2012 7:29am May 1, 2012 7:29am
Quoting ForexQuant
Honestly I completely have no idea why Free EXN plan has lower spread than PFL plan. It just not making any sense at all.
Justin said it was because they selected a few LP's to feed liquidity into the Free EXN thereby making them 'try a little harder' to get fills equaling tighter spreads. IMHO, they screwed the pooch on this. They have alienated all their old customers used to Desktop+Commish, then woo'd them PFL, only to see liquidity dry up (maybe market related as Justin has rebuffed all my theories) when Free EXN was introduced. Sometimes the saying proves correct:

"IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT"

BroncoCap
  • #9,369
  • May 1, 2012 7:41am May 1, 2012 7:41am
Quoting ForexQuant
Honestly I completely have no idea why Free EXN plan has lower spread than PFL plan. It just not making any sense at all.
Because the free exn has better liquidity. More liquidity = better spread. Not only does the free exn have better spreads it has better spread even though MBT is adding in their markup. Can you imagine what the difference in the spread between free exn & pfl actually would be if you remove their markup?

Justin can BS here all he wants but we use PFL every day and we can see how bad it has become since their awesome idea to split the customer base.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #9,370
  • May 1, 2012 8:14am May 1, 2012 8:14am
Quoting BroncoCap
Justin said it was because they selected a few LP's to feed liquidity into the Free EXN thereby making them 'try a little harder' to get fills equaling tighter spreads. IMHO, they screwed the pooch on this. They have alienated all their old customers used to Desktop+Commish, then woo'd them PFL, only to see liquidity dry up (maybe market related as Justin has rebuffed all my theories) when Free EXN was introduced. Sometimes the saying proves correct:

"IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT"

BroncoCap
selected a few LP's to feed liquidity into the Free EXN thereby making them 'try a little harder' to get fills equaling tighter spreads??? This does not sound logic to me because if it is true, why not apply the same trick into PFL plan too?
  • #9,371
  • May 1, 2012 8:23am May 1, 2012 8:23am
Quoting BroncoCap
TradeOffice,
I had some problem yesterday and AGAIN, same problem today. For my daily PnL reporting, I am assuming they fix this issue, but it is especially annoying. Yesterday was 4 incorrect rebates, today is 6. Utterly sucks having to run daily reports and not have the correct values. No resolution on yesterdays call to support, chat w/ support, AND trouble ticket. A bit too slow for my liking...

BroncoCap
BroncoCap,

Same for me : chat on friday, chat and ticket yesterday, and no news since.
I called Order Desk this morning, it seems that some random accounts have this issue. Following my interlocutor's instruction, I sent an email and no news since.
The daily Profit and Loss Statement is wrong too.
  • #9,372
  • May 1, 2012 9:06am May 1, 2012 9:06am
Quoting ForexQuant
selected a few LP's to feed liquidity into the Free EXN thereby making them 'try a little harder' to get fills equaling tighter spreads??? This does not sound logic to me because if it is true, why not apply the same trick into PFL plan too?
Quant,
I too disagree w/ the premise, but here is Justin's response from a post a while back

Quote
You have Plan A with 20 entities feeding their quotes into it. We only route your order to the bank with the best bid/ask at the time. That means that only when one of those entities is the best bid or ask do they get order flow from us, and of course, prices update in the milliseconds. Obviously, the more competitive any one of those entities is in trying to keep their best bid and/or ask near the market, the more of our customer orders they will have routed to them, but let’s face it. If you have 20 competing, they are only each going to get so...

This is the entire post if you are interested. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...69#post5431469

I too think that they are splitting up their base far too much. Better to have just taken the chosen LP's into both systems...or reward the better ones for running tighter spreads much like PFL's. Admittedly, I've only been doing this for 6 months, but the changes at MBT over the 6 months have all been in the wrong direction, but fundamentally (PFL vs Free EXN) and now these issues w/ incorrect commissions, etc.

They need to get their ship in order a bit...
  • #9,373
  • Edited 9:33am May 1, 2012 9:21am | Edited 9:33am
I, too, have now had an undeniable incorrect commission charge.
My limit order was during a somewhat fast market (not during news release, about 10 min after)
....but it did rest in the order book for 9 secs and was almost 4 pips away from displayed current market.

I have traded in/out in seconds many times (+100) over the past months.

The only explanation, if MBT concludes they can find nothing wrong, is that
our quotes are somewhat "behind" on NavPro today (and potentially yesterday).

I don't care about any specific corrections for my individual account,
the costs were miniscule and I made +4 pips in 10 seconds or so...
but please investigate the root of the problem....

I've had literally hundreds of limit order executions for even fractions of a pip in fast markets with trade durations in seconds,
and no problems with "Pay for Limit" credits.

I can't recall a continuous problem like this occurring before.
edited: this account is Navigator Pro "Pay for Limits"
  • #9,374
  • May 1, 2012 9:39am May 1, 2012 9:39am
Quoting BroncoCap
Quant,
I too disagree w/ the premise, but here is Justin's response from a post a while back



This is the entire post if you are interested. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...69#post5431469

I too think that they are splitting up their base far too much. Better to have just taken the chosen LP's into both systems...or reward the better ones for running tighter spreads much like PFL's. Admittedly, I've only been doing this for 6 months, but the changes at MBT over the 6 months have all been in the wrong direction,...
Thanks for the link. I didnt aware of the Justin's reply on the spread issue.

Now my question is if FREE EXN model has less banks therefore better spread, why not just reduce the number of banks in PFL for a better competition?
  • #9,375
  • May 1, 2012 9:39am May 1, 2012 9:39am
Quoting Intu
I, too, have now had an undeniable incorrect commission charge.
My limit order was during a somewhat fast market (not during news release, about 10 min after)
....but it did rest in the order book for 9 secs and was almost 4 pips away from displayed current market.

I have traded in/out in seconds many times (+100) over the past months.

The only explanation, if MBT concludes they can find nothing wrong, is that
our quotes are somewhat "behind" on NavPro today (and potentially yesterday).

I don't care about any specific corrections for...
Intu,
I've had resting orders for over 10min that show wrong commissions, it's a bug in their system. I originally thought it was for limits filled w/ positive slippage, but found wrong commissions for limits filled at the entered price, so who knows. I am updating support daily w/ order IDs for all erroneous commissions. Luckily, I screen record my entire session so I have ~undeniable proof of order placement and market at that time--not that they could not somehow dismiss it...

Net-net, their system is currently malfunctioning, and I hope resolution occurs quickly. In the meantime, I am going to trade small and infrequently as keeping up w/ what is correct and what is erroneous is a pain in the arse. My suggestion is to document, document, document!

Fingers crossed,
BroncoCap
  • #9,376
  • May 1, 2012 9:45am May 1, 2012 9:45am
Quoting ForexQuant
Thanks for the link. I didnt aware of the Justin's reply on the spread issue.

Now my question is if FREE EXN model has less banks therefore better spread, why not just reduce the number of banks in PFL for a better competition?
That was my thought too, but I left it as is...pick your battles as they say. And, more importantly, it is the deep liquidity spread that truly matters, not just the net spread. A dishonest broker could keep a 0.1 spread using single microlots, making their stats look good, but the depth is key. I may open a Free EXN and an MT4 script to record Market Depth to compare to PFL. Rooicol had interesting stats on spreads and ticks before. Maybe we could lean on him as well for data.

For now, I need the commission issue rectified, then I'll move forward. Also about to submit acct application for my LLC, but a bit concerned now...
  • #9,377
  • May 1, 2012 9:58am May 1, 2012 9:58am
Quoting BroncoCap
Quant,
I too disagree w/ the premise, but here is Justin's response from a post a while back



This is the entire post if you are interested. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...69#post5431469
Thanks for posting that link.

I can't believe what I am reading here. So

- their best liquidity providers are exclusive to free exn - CHECK
- vast majority of their customers gone over to free exn - CHECK
- lots of $1000 micro lots in the order book - CHECK
- absolutely crap spreads in every instrument except EURUSD - CHECK
- Crap execution due to all the reasons above - CHECK
- instead of getting paid for limits, customers getting charged - CHECK

Basically only people left in PFL are you, me, the pakistani bank providing liquidity and that other guy... no wait he's gone too.


Seriously compare mbt spreads for any pair other than eurusd... do it

http://www.fxintel.com/live/
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #9,378
  • May 1, 2012 10:02am May 1, 2012 10:02am
Quoting BroncoCap
Intu,
I've had resting orders for over 10min that show wrong commissions, it's a bug in their system. I originally thought it was for limits filled w/ positive slippage, but found wrong commissions for limits filled at the entered price, so who knows. I am updating support daily w/ order IDs for all erroneous commissions. Luckily, I screen record my entire session so I have ~undeniable proof of order placement and market at that time--not that they could not somehow dismiss it...

Net-net, their system is currently malfunctioning, and I hope resolution...
It is unpleasant that support team doesn't communicate. I forgive that their system may have an issue, that can happen to any forex firm, but they should honestly communicate on it. Each time I contact support team, I have to explain over and over the issue, detailing each order characteristic, and invariably my interlocutor says : "open a ticket" or "send an email", what I do without any result.
  • #9,379
  • May 1, 2012 10:03am May 1, 2012 10:03am
Quoting Traderji
Because the free exn has better liquidity. More liquidity = better spread. Not only does the free exn have better spreads it has better spread even though MBT is adding in their markup. Can you imagine what the difference in the spread between free exn & pfl actually would be if you remove their markup?

Justin can BS here all he wants but we use PFL every day and we can see how bad it has become since their awesome idea to split the customer base.
That's just nonsense. I trade on both systems, and I can tell you that there is not any better liquidity on FREE EXN. A tighter spread doesn't mean better liquidity. As someone else said, a broker could set a 0.1 pip spread and not fill you on any real size and that's not liquidity. Also, on a system like this, if the banks are at 1.3000 by 1.3001 and someone puts a bid for a micro at 1.30007, suddenly the spread is 0.3 of a pip, but if you sell, you get filled on a micro and the bid drops 0.7 of a pip. That's not liquidity. I can tell you now that after trading on both systems for a while, it seems clear that what they have on the FREE EXN are a couple of banks that hold narrow spreads, but since there are only a couple (it appears), they get most of the order flow, so they are happy to stay at a lower spread which MB has said that they require them to do.

Now, I will say that the spreads are tighter on FREE EXN, and when it isn't news, fills in both environments are fast. For news, you should always use a limit to control slippage. But the idea that there is more liquidity on FREE EXN is nonsense. I've done testing on both systems firing orders for 50 lots at the same time and everything ends up about the same.
  • #9,380
  • May 1, 2012 10:08am May 1, 2012 10:08am
Quoting BroncoCap
Quant,
I too disagree w/ the premise, but here is Justin's response from a post a while back



This is the entire post if you are interested. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...69#post5431469

I too think that they are splitting up their base far too much. Better to have just taken the chosen LP's into both systems...or reward the better ones for running tighter spreads much like PFL's. Admittedly, I've only been doing this for 6 months, but the changes at MBT over the 6 months have all been in the wrong direction,...
You know, I don't run a huge account, but I did do some rather large (for me) live order size testing before I started trading with them full time. To me, demo trading is useless, and if you really want to know if a broker has good liquidity, you need to place a couple of decent sized trades. I did that on both PFL and FREE with several trades. To me, that's a start-up cost (testing my broker with real money). Point being, my fills and net costs were about the same on both. Someone on here saying that they have problems getting filled on anything over a standard lot. My regular trade size is bigger than that and I don't have that problem. Something doesn't make sense.
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