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  • #241
  • Apr 20, 2012 6:09am Apr 20, 2012 6:09am
Quoting Vogon
Would it negate the value of the Gann angle lines if we assume a constant flow of price time? This would certainly fix any differences in feeds etc.

But this would create lines that shift with every break in trading on our charts.

I'll defer to ILP on this point. we don't want to over complicate a working system.

Concerning time frames, The choice of time frames would seem to have more of an impact on the divergent oscillator used for confirmation than the angle lines. The angle lines should be very consistent across all time frames. So perhaps...
You said it. having confirmation and making the entry
  • #242
  • Apr 20, 2012 6:09am Apr 20, 2012 6:09am
We do not know how to build a Gann fan in MT4. But I want to put the next question. What are the possible extremes, from which must be build fans?
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #243
  • Apr 20, 2012 6:27am Apr 20, 2012 6:27am
Gann used three types of swings chart.

"One-Bar Swing Chart (1-Bar Swing Chart): The One-Bar Swing Chart, or Minor Trend Chart, follows the one-bar movements of the market. From a low price, each time the market makes a higher-high than the previous bar, a One-Bar trend line moves up from the recent low to the new high. This action makes the previous low price a One-Bar bottom. From a high price each time the market makes a lower-low than the previous bar, a One-Bar swing line moves down from the recent high to the new low. This action makes the previous high price a One-Bar top.
The combination of One-Bar tops and bottoms forms the One-Bar trend indicator chart. The crossing of a One-Bar swing top changes the One-Bar trend to up. The penetration of a One-Bar swing bottom changes the One-Bar trend to down."

"Two-Bar Swing Chart (2-Bar Swing Chart): The Two-Bar Swing Chart, or Intermediate Trend Chart, follows the two-bar movements of the market. From a low price each time the market makes a higher-high than the previous bar for two consecutive time periods, a Two-Bar trend line moves up from the low two bars back to the new high. This action makes the low price from two bars back a Two-Bar Swing Bottom. From a high price each time the market makes a lower-low than the previous bar for two consecutive time periods, a Two-Bar trend line moves down from the high two bars back to the new low. This action makes the high price from two bars back a Two-Bar Swing Top.
The combination of Two-Bar swing tops and bottoms forms the Two-Bar trend indicator chart. The crossing of a Two-Bar swing top changes the Two-Bar trend to up. The penetration of a Two-Bar trend bottom changes the Two-Bar trend to down."

"Main Trend: The main trend swing chart follows the three-bar movements of the market from a low price each time the market makes a higher-high than the previous bar for three consecutive time periods, a main trend line moves up from the low three bars back to the new high. This action makes the low price from three bars back to a main bottom. From a high price each time the market makes a lower-low from the previous bar for three consecutive time periods, a main trend line moves down from the high three bars back to the new low. This action makes the high price from the three bars back a main top.
The combination of main swing tops and bottoms forms the main trend indicator chart. The crossing of the main swing top changes the main swing to up. The penetration of a main swing bottom changes the main trend to down.
Depending on trader preference, sometimes a two-bar swing is used to determine the main trend."

Source: http://patternpricetime.com/
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #244
  • Apr 20, 2012 6:56am Apr 20, 2012 6:56am
It will be great if our chart has these swings.
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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #245
  • Apr 20, 2012 7:37am Apr 20, 2012 7:37am
We must construct fans of each extreme. Imagine what will look like the graph. Probably will not see the price, right? For me it is clear that there is no need to build fans of One-Bar Swing Chart. If you build a fans only Main Trend may have little support/resistance. Here I show that notorious sheet that Gann wrote "Use 2 day charts and rules better than 3 day".
Attached Image


And pass only the Two-Bar Swing Chart.
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Quite tired today. We will continue another day.
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #246
  • Apr 20, 2012 8:06am Apr 20, 2012 8:06am
I thought we wanted the 15m timeframe, but this works on all TFs.

We ideally enter after a failed "new high or low".
In EW terms this would be wave 2 or B.

There are several indi's that give a signal.
I have an indi that gives alternate buy/sell signals but this needs modification because ideally we reach an entry and lets say we are selling, then we keep selling on retraces as long as it keeps the trend.

The difference with this method vs others is that when we enter against the "prevailing" trend in a wave 2 or B we can do so with a short stop and avoid the trap that other trendfollowing systems have since the majority of those systems would go with the trend on a "strong" buy/sell since all indi's that are trendfollowing are showing a strong trend.

I would not use the swing indicator. It clogs up the screen.
  • #247
  • Apr 20, 2012 8:12am Apr 20, 2012 8:12am
Quoting Ilovepippin
I thought we wanted the 15m timeframe, but this works on all TFs.

We ideally enter after a failed "new high or low".
In EW terms this would be wave 2 or B.

There are several indi's that give a signal.
I have an indi that gives alternate buy/sell signals but this needs modification because ideally we reach an entry and lets say we are selling, then we keep selling on retraces as long as it keeps the trend.

The difference with this method vs others is that when we enter against the "prevailing" trend in a wave 2 or B we can do so with...
This is interesting, as usual, we wait for a pullback and then follow the wave. however, there are times, it just shoot up. for the pattern you just described, it sure makes sense if your indicator can differentiate versus the commonly trend following indicator. Visually, we just have to count or differentiate
  • #248
  • Apr 20, 2012 8:40am Apr 20, 2012 8:40am
Congratulations to everyone who has animated this forum in the last few days related to this trade.
I can see that the trade is called PVS ( Price Vibration System ) but up until this point the postings were made especially through the Gann Trend Structure Analysis Technique - Swing chart also have been followed related to the price cycles.Unfortunately, nothing, or almost nothing about the vibration of the price and the law of vibration.I eagerly await for this subject to be approached also.Good luck to everyone.
  • #249
  • Apr 20, 2012 9:35am Apr 20, 2012 9:35am
Quoting makefortune
This is interesting, as usual, we wait for a pullback and then follow the wave. however, there are times, it just shoot up. for the pattern you just described, it sure makes sense if your indicator can differentiate versus the commonly trend following indicator. Visually, we just have to count or differentiate
Trading is not without risk. You will lose trades.
However, we have to use indicators in order to minimize the risk and get into high probability trades.

First we need some coding done to some indi's.
- MACD divergence
- Vertical Grid
- Gann lines

This in addition to moneydeep indi.
  • #250
  • Apr 20, 2012 9:37am Apr 20, 2012 9:37am
Quoting matei
Congratulations to everyone who has animated this forum in the last few days related to this trade.
I can see that the trade is called PVS ( Price Vibration System ) but up until this point the postings were made especially through the Gann Trend Structure Analysis Technique - Swing chart also have been followed related to the price cycles.Unfortunately, nothing, or almost nothing about the vibration of the price and the law of vibration.I eagerly await for this subject to be approached also.Good luck to everyone.
From what I understand the moneydeep indicator is such a tool.
From what I see it uses a technique similar to what Jenkins is using by measuring the initial uptrend and calculating turning points from there.

Maybe you should look into that.
  • #251
  • Apr 20, 2012 10:43am Apr 20, 2012 10:43am
I know it's not very "gann-like" but observing the PVS system paired with HA candles gives good idea about trend and shows some good entries at the blue doji stars
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  • #252
  • Apr 20, 2012 11:44am Apr 20, 2012 11:44am
Quoting neuron
I know it's not very "gann-like" but observing the PVS system paired with HA candles gives good idea about trend and shows some good entries at the blue doji stars
I have run the deepmoney stuff that generate the Gann lines and grids automatically, I notice that the line does not match turning points. I have tried to adjust and pull the ControlBar, but it goes back to where it was after a while.

If I turn of the autoTFHiLos, the gann levels do not show up. What is it that I need to do?
  • #253
  • Edited 12:54pm Apr 20, 2012 11:57am | Edited 12:54pm
Quoting makefortune
I have run the deepmoney stuff that generate the Gann lines and grids automatically, I notice that the line does not match turning points. I have tried to adjust and pull the ControlBar, but it goes back to where it was after a while.

If I turn of the autoTFHiLos, the gann levels do not show up. What is it that I need to do?
turn off the Auto HiLo option in the indicator settings

near the current candle on the chart should be a vertical red bar, when you double click the bar two endpoints and one midpoint should appear. drag the end points to the hi and low you like, then double click the chart to deselect the line. you can wait for MT4 to refresh or manually right click and refresh the chart to see the new grid.

if you switch TFs you're gonna have to re do the red bar again, and manually delete the other TF red bar since it doesn't automatically disappear


also like to add that one should play with the cycle #, it's set default at 34, but check out this chart with it set at 55, the second chart is a line version zoomed out so you can see past activity. magical numbers
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  • #254
  • Apr 20, 2012 1:12pm Apr 20, 2012 1:12pm
Quoting neuron
turn off the Auto HiLo option in the indicator settings

near the current candle on the chart should be a vertical red bar, when you double click the bar two endpoints and one midpoint should appear. drag the end points to the hi and low you like, then double click the chart to deselect the line. you can wait for MT4 to refresh or manually right click and refresh the chart to see the new grid.

if you switch TFs you're gonna have to re do the red bar again, and manually delete the other TF red bar since it doesn't automatically disappear


also...

thanks for your speedy reply. looks like i have lots of experiment to do over the weekend. nevertheless, good to get the right cycles in place for each pari.
  • #255
  • Apr 21, 2012 1:35am Apr 21, 2012 1:35am
Quoting matei
Congratulations to everyone who has animated this forum in the last few days related to this trade.
I can see that the trade is called PVS ( Price Vibration System ) but up until this point the postings were made especially through the Gann Trend Structure Analysis Technique - Swing chart also have been followed related to the price cycles.Unfortunately, nothing, or almost nothing about the vibration of the price and the law of vibration.I eagerly await for this subject to be approached also.Good luck to everyone.
Yes. Matei! Matei us back to the first step of the process.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...70#post5590370
Can anyone give a definition of PVS (Price Vibration System)? It is good in this relation we to have agreed. Otherwise it is pointless to continue I with explanations. Explanations that you will not take in general.
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #256
  • Apr 21, 2012 1:56am Apr 21, 2012 1:56am
I found the definition of vibration on Wikipedia.
"Vibration is a mechanical phenomenon whereby oscillations occur about an equilibrium point. The oscillations may be periodic such as the motion of a pendulum or random such as the movement of a tire on a gravel road."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibration

We must disregard the mechanical definition. Because the price is something imaginary. So I alter the definition.

"Vibration is a phenomenon whereby oscillations the price occur about an equilibrium point. The oscillations may be periodic or random."
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #257
  • Apr 21, 2012 2:04am Apr 21, 2012 2:04am
“From my extensive investigations, studies and applied
tests, I find that not only do the various stocks vibrate, but
that the driving forces controlling the stocks are also in a
state of vibration”

“Stocks, like atoms, are really centres of energies. Therefore,
they are controlled mathematically…. There is no
chance in nature because mathematical principles of the
highest order lie at the foundation of all things”

“The power to determine the trend of the market is due
to my knowledge of the characteristics of each individual
stock and a certain grouping of different stocks under their
proper rates of vibration. Stocks are like electrons, atoms
and molecules, which hold persistently to their own individuality
in response to the fundamental Law Of Vibration….
After exhaustive researches and investigations of
the known sciences, I discovered that the Law Of Vibration
enabled me to accurately determine the exact points
to which stocks or commodities should rise and fall within
a given time. The working out of this law determines the
cause and predicts the effect long before the Street is aware
of either”



these are all quotes of W.D. Gann.

essentially, he believed that the behavior of commodity and stock prices could be mathematically determined based on research of past data that determined the unique vibration frequency

this could be approached in a variety of manners, visually from drawing Gann fan trendlines to mathematical calculations of price from square of 9 (or in this case, an excel sheet with the appropriate formulas)

the indicator for this PVS system provides mathematical calculations of potential price levels based on your input of hi and low data points, and a Gann grid is provided to plot potential turning points in the future (once properly calibrated)
  • #258
  • Apr 21, 2012 2:24am Apr 21, 2012 2:24am


"I soon began to note the periodical recurrence of the rise and fall in stocks and commodities. This led me to conclude that natural law was the basis of market movements. I then decided to devote ten years of my life to the study of natural law as applicable to the speculative markets and to devote my best energies toward making speculation a profitable profession. After exhaustive researches and investigations of the known sciences, I discovered that the law of vibration enabled me to accurately determine the exact points at which stocks or commodities should rise and fall within a given time."


"The law which I have applied will not only give these long cycles or swings, but the daily and even hourly movements of stocks. By knowing the exact vibration of each individual stock I am able to determine at what point each will receive support and at what point the greatest resistance is to be met."



"Stocks are like electrons, atoms and molecules, which hold persistently to their own individuality in response to the fundamental law of vibration. [...] From my extensive investigations, studies and applied tests, I find that not only do the various stocks vibrate, but that the driving forces controlling the stocks are also in a state of vibration. These vibratory forces can only be known by the movements they generate on the stocks and their values in the market. Since all great swings or movements of the market are cyclic, they act in accordance with periodic law."



"If we wish to avert failure in speculation we must deal with causes. Everything in existence is based on exact proportion and perfect relationship. There is no chance in nature, because mathematical principles of the highest order lie at the foundation of all things. Faraday said, "There is nothing in the universe but mathematical points of force."




"Vibration is fundamental: nothing is exempt from this law. It is universal, therefore applicable to every class of phenomena on the globe."



"Through the law of vibration every stock in the market moves in its own distinctive sphere of activities, as to intensity, volume and direction; all the essential qualities of its evolution are characterized in its own rate of vibration. Stocks, like atoms, are really centres of energy; therefore, they are controlled mathematically. Stocks create their own field of action and power: power to attract and repel, which principle explains why certain stocks at times lead the market and 'turn dead' at other times. Thus, to speculate scientifically it is absolutely necessary to follow natural law."



"After years of patient study I have proven to my entire satisfaction, as well as demonstrated to others, that vibration explains every possible phase and condition of the market."



W.D.Gann






  • #259
  • Apr 21, 2012 2:52am Apr 21, 2012 2:52am
Sorry to say it. Guys, you are responsible only blah-blah. Give it a comprehensive law of vibration. I hope finally a series of posts dedicated price vibration to have the definition given by Gann. I'm sure you know the definition.
Now I ask you: do you agree with the definition of vibration of the price written below?

"Vibration is a phenomenon whereby oscillations the price occur about an equilibrium point. The oscillations may be periodic or random."
"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
  • #260
  • Apr 21, 2012 3:30am Apr 21, 2012 3:30am
I continue. In order to enable us to predict the vibrations of the price we must know the points of oscillation and the law under which oscillations are made. Right? Gann offers a way to determine these points - these are swing charts. And Gann offered through these points to build lines of fans from different angles. Finally Gann wrote a rule that describes the price oscillation between these lines.
That is:
"Rule of All Angles: Another important guideline is what Gann called the Rule of All Angles. When a market breaks an angle, it will move toward the next angle. This is because as time passes, an angle’s importance weakens and the market eventually breaks through. Therefore a market breaking the 2 x 1 angle will begin to move toward the 1 x 1 angle; just as a market breaking the 1 x 1 angle will eventually reach the 1 x 2 angle. Conversely, in an up move, an angle that holds the 1 x 2 angle is likely to rally to the 1 x 1, just as overtaking the 1 x 1 is likely to lead to a rally to the 2 x 1."
Source:
http://patternpricetime.com/glossary...of-all-angles/

How does the chart aud/usd:
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"You have to BE before you can DO, and DO before you can HAVE." Zig Ziglar
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