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No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #301
  • Apr 9, 2012 4:06pm Apr 9, 2012 4:06pm
Quoting DedMatvey
Dear Fellow Traders,
To my shame, I start feeling bored staying in this thread because I have the strong feeling that we are turning what was initially a very interesting subject and thread into just a bla-bla show. Perhaps it is time to put an end to this?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As an alternative (I am applying now to all honorable ordinary traders of Nacho-Indrek-DedMatvey party), I suggest that we gather a group of volunteers, open demo accounts (one for each participant)...
Have been following this, excellent thread.

Sounds like a reasonable idea Dedmatvey.

Would be interesting to see the outcome of using or not using a stoploss, it sounds like Dedmatvey is certainly interested in running a demo and perhaps placing his results on here, and as such must be quite confident of his abilities, of course im sure one of the guys who have been so vocal on the need to use a stoploss will be more than willing to also take part, only takes a secong to place a demo trade after having first placed a live one so shouldnt get in the way of normal trading.

Im quite looking forward to the results, would certainly go a long way to either prove or dissprove the method, although of course one month in trading isn't a particularly long time.

M.

M.
  • #302
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:46pm Apr 9, 2012 10:46pm
Quoting pipmutt
Go check your egg man, it might have hatched!

....and for goodness sake stop clucking......I mean clicking......you're making way too much money for FF you brøker mole you!

SHHHHHHHHHHH....Mutts you will get your cut.

Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #303
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:53pm Apr 9, 2012 10:53pm
Quoting fxtr51
Yes, and when a sl-trader is placing a SL because he believes in it
and he is doing according to what the SL-believers is teaching their followers,
he is called an "idiot" and "display of trading ineptness" .

That makes so much sense and thatīs why 95 % lose part or all of their money.

Stoploss hunting is fact. The brokers have software for it.
Whoever is calling this a "conspiracy theory" is either a complete newbie or he is a broker mole or maybe something else is wrong with him.

Click, click, click

Nacho, of course your method...

Hmmmm.....Is this the kinds mole your talking about???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...up_of_mole.jpg
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #304
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:55pm Apr 9, 2012 10:55pm
Quoting Indrek
I think that I will just stay quiet in the future... I trade for living and it is a bit strange for me to hear from demo traders that I am doing things absolutely wrong...
I certainly do not recommend to trade without any SL. But hedging or not - it is matter of taste. Arguing about taste is senseless.
I also understand that no br*ker can accept such method of managing trades. And will do everything possible to mess up threads like this one.

Yes they will.....

Click...Click...Click...Click...Click...Click...Click...Click...
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #305
  • Apr 9, 2012 11:26pm Apr 9, 2012 11:26pm
Quoting DedMatvey
Have been managing a number of accounts with 5 br*kers - have not noticed anything special except for some minor details in the terms.
I meant that most probably many people in threads like this work for br*kers. Otherwise, it is difficult to explain why best threads are always killed quickly. Maybe just too many stupid people around, I do not know, but probably also clever ones asking stupid questions again and again. Or fighting directly against best ideas.
Anyway, it is clear that threads that contain really working and profitable trading systems die very early while the longest and most popular ones are always full of BS only.
That is why it is always wise to not reveal best ideas in anonymous places.
  • #306
  • Apr 9, 2012 11:41pm Apr 9, 2012 11:41pm
Quoting Indrek
I meant that most probably many people in threads like this work for br*kers. Otherwise, it is difficult to explain why best threads are always killed quickly. Maybe just too many stupid people around, I do not know, but probably also clever ones asking stupid questions again and again. Or fighting directly against best ideas.
Anyway, it is clear that threads that contain really working and profitable trading systems die very early while the longest and most popular ones are always full of BS only.
That is why it is always wise to not reveal best...

Some valid points for sure.
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #307
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:36am Apr 10, 2012 12:36am
Quoting fxtr51
A few years ago I trusted a "super forex trader", he had a good website and he was one of the best Elliott-Wave experts.
He managed my live-account and there we went:
Somehow his analysis was correct 99%, so for example he
opened a Short .... and set a SL at the last swing High + a few Pips for spread and safety.

You would not believe it ( not you, Jse Alsi, because you know the dirty game ) , but almost every time the market first spiked
up and got his SL, the price dropped like a stone shortly afterwards.

He lost almost every setup with...
I'm sorry for your loss, but your money manager was just a bad trader. Unfortunately you learned nothing from that experience. See what you and the no SL bunch don't seem to understand is that you don't need a stop for a br0ker to take your money. Unrealized loss is a loss. Just because you don't close the trade out doesn't mean the br0ker hasn't gotten you. On the contrary you are playing the game right into his hands by allowing it to fall deeper into loss.

Now if you truly believe the br0ker hunts stops, then why wouldn't you buy and sell simultaneously with the smaller position having a stop loss and the larger one not having a stop loss? Let the br0ker hunt your small trade's stop loss and close the bigger one for a profit at the same time the smaller one is stopped. Please explain why this would not work according to your theory.
  • #308
  • Edited 1:15am Apr 10, 2012 12:43am | Edited 1:15am
Quoting Jse Alsi
Stoplosses are the most highly promoted and punted lessons given out by every single retail fx broker there is . Why you may ask , well its there biggest moneymaker along with a good lashing of leverage.Ever asked yourself what would hapen if say for the next 6 months every single retail trader removed his S/L and lowered his leverage down to as near as 1:1 as possible ie very small lots? Every single retail broker would go out of business. evan with leverage ,they would shit themselves. "Dont forget your S/L chaps" Werever you look. and whobetied...
That is the fallacy that is so widely accepted. See trading is not easy nor was it meant to be. So when people fail there must be a reason, right? It can't be because I mismanaged my entry and exit. It must be because the damn broker hunted my stop. If that's the case then why couldn't the broker be fooled into chasing your smaller stops in order to cash in on your larger positions without a stop as I explained in the previous post? Furthermore, do you actually think the broker needs to hit your stop to take your money? If so, then try withdrawing your unrealized loss and see what happens.
  • #309
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:48am Apr 10, 2012 12:48am
Quoting Nacho
thing is that risking that little, I could afford a drawback on a single pair of more than 500 pips without needing to close the trade. I have to be very unlucky for having 5 pairs going all 500 pips against me . I agree that it could happen though.
But for example, I have 2 trades still pending now for several days already. But the other trades I have closed with TP already compensate for these two.
Plus, I can still manually close those trades that look to be going beyond control.
5oo pips is too little...need to go for at least 1000 of cushion...and maybe both ways...and different pairs...and trade with Oanda, no lots but say 100 pieces...you need to calculate ...excell and more excell...in the end is posible, provided you start with tiny lots...(forget about micro lots unless you have 100000 in the account...)
Market might move 5000 pips, slowly but surely....against you...itīs the name of the game...you will loose sleep if not carefull....
  • #310
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:51am Apr 10, 2012 12:51am
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7...so1_r1_500.gif


She's a beauty aint she ?

I think she's saying " Who's been hunting my stops?"
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #311
  • Apr 10, 2012 12:51am Apr 10, 2012 12:51am
Quoting bluesteele
Hmmmm.....Is this the kinds mole your talking about???
LOL. I laughed when I read that part. I guess we must be moles blue. If I am working for a br0ker then I'm pretty pissed right about now because I haven't received any paychecks from them! LOL
  • #312
  • Edited 1:39am Apr 10, 2012 1:11am | Edited 1:39am
Quoting nanningbob
I understand, but we all use a SL at some point and end a trade. We all do that or should. After years of playing with this stuff I have found that around 1% you are probably better off killing the trade. That is my limit but I have violated that limit if I think the fundamentals are with me. If you really think about it. A guy who trades 3 million or 30 million or more at a time is not trading with a 30 or 50 pip SL nor is he highly leveraged. He is most likely trading 1:1 or 2:1. He breaks up his trading amount, lets say 3 million for an example,...
Bob, it looks like your now totally confused. I will take responsibility for that. Please accept my apology.

See I never once told you that you cannot make money without a stop loss. My whole argument has been that it is more profitable long term (and without more risk) if you trade with a stop loss - if you know what you are doing. It's simple math to explain this, let alone visualize. See when you are turning over trades of larger position size more frequently, the more you compound the earnings. And since they are more frequent and of larger size, the compounding is exponential. Compare that to a tiny little trade floating around in drawdown for what seems like forever until it hits your take profit. Sure you will get those trades that hit TP same day, but again they are tiny trades since you are prepared for the possibility of a large drawdown. This way is such a WASTE OF TIME! Again, not saying you can't ultimately reap profits, but it's not really worth the hassle or time, imo. That is why I always say you might as well put your money in fixed return instruments if you are going to trade that way.

Anyway, getting back to why I feel responsible for twisting your mind up. Now you say you are cutting trades off at 1% with a position size that can withstand a 50K pip drawdown. Now that really makes no sense. If you are going to trade no stop loss then do it all the way. 1% drawdown on a position size that can withstand 50K pip drawdown is 500 pips, correct? Now you're really being inefficient with the use of your time. A 500 pip swing could take a few weeks or couple months. I suggest increasing the position size some and putting a shorter stop loss. You are going to get stopped out here and there. Yes that will happen! But if you enter and exit at good points consistently, you will make back any losses and some. Now watch someone call me a br0ker mole, lol.
  • #313
  • Apr 10, 2012 2:25am Apr 10, 2012 2:25am
Quoting bluesteele
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l7...so1_r1_500.gif


She's a beauty aint she ?

I think she's saying " Who's been hunting my stops?"
WRONG: thatīs your BROKER hunting your stops...donīt mess around with him (or Her)
  • #314
  • Apr 10, 2012 2:44am Apr 10, 2012 2:44am
In our normal day-to-day lives we are constrained by boundaries, obligations, socially acceptable behaviour, laws, and some things are just the accepted norm ie looking when crossing the street. In trading it's different, we're free to do more or less exactly as we please without any boundaries or obligations, we alone have to decide what is sensible and acceptable and what isn't, and we're totally responsible for maintaining our own discipline, there's no one threatening punishment, nannying us, or helping us avoid acting irresponsibly as in our normal day-to-day lives. That, I believe, is a significant difference.


-[/quote]
Hi pipmutt,
Exactly what we have been seeing happening in this thread for the last few days.
From what you are saying, isn't the solution for all our problems obvious?
Get back to normal human morals and discipline and earn money trading currencies.
  • #315
  • Apr 10, 2012 4:08am Apr 10, 2012 4:08am
It's a pity to say this, but for the obvious reasons the thread stopped being interesting to me.
Seeing no sense in following it any more, I am leaving.

Those of who may want to join the group of participants to try a no-SL strategy on demo accounts for one month (whether under my guidance or not) pls use the private message service.
If under my guidance, two conditions for choosing the right br*ker:
1. (Paramount importance) the account size/contract size ratio offered must be 1:2, for example 500/100 or 5,000/10,000, or 50,000/100,000.
2. (Important) that there be USD/SGD in the list of the pairs to trade.
I wish lucky trades to everybody.
  • #316
  • Apr 10, 2012 4:34am Apr 10, 2012 4:34am
Quoting DedMatvey
It's a pity to say this, but for the obvious reasons the thread stopped being interesting to me.
Seeing no sense in following it any more, I am leaving.

Those of who may want to join the group of participants to try a no-SL strategy on demo accounts for one month (whether under my guidance or not) pls use the private message service.
If under my guidance, two conditions for choosing the right br*ker:
1. (Paramount importance) the account size/contract size ratio offered must be 1:2, for example 500/100 or 5,000/10,000, or 50,000/100,000.
2. (Important)...

This is an interesting thread and I participate is this style of trading. We made much headway on the "Pitbull trader with position building" thread which seems to have run its course.

Its no surprise you leave as the idiots have run amok trying to wreck the thread. The tried but failed on Pitbull Trader with Position Building which seem similar in approach to this. I'd be interested in participating.

Well done to Nacho for putting up the thread.
  • #317
  • Apr 10, 2012 4:49am Apr 10, 2012 4:49am
I cannot believe that "experienced" traders know nothing about
virtual dealer plug-ins.
Either they lie or they are just ignorant or something else is
wrong with them.

Interesting that only the SL-missionaries here ridicule it although it
is fact.
There is a reason for that and they know it but will never admit it.

Nacho, please ban these guys.
They are only here to destroy your thread.

Quote
I think most of us will agree that the CFTC and the NFA can be pretty annoying. With the new regulations they have forced on the Forex market, leverage for Americans has dropped to 50:1 on the majors.


However the NFA also does some good. Have you ever heard of Virtual Dealer Plug-Ins?



If you haven’t, a virtual deal plug-in is a little piece of software that allows brokers to manipulate price slippages. It makes the slippage almost always fall on the traders side as opposed to the brokers side. As you can imagine over the course...
Interesting too that the very good Elliott Wave trader who managed my live account, was losing most of his setups using StopLoss exactly how
using StopLoss is taught by the whole SL-crowd and their gurus.

And even more interesting that I had my live-account at
Gain Capital back then.

Only thing: back then I didnīt know about the Virtual Dealer Desk plugin
and nobody else did until the NFA published their findings.

It is interesting too that the SL-missionaries here badmouth that
excellent trader for doing exactly what they are here to teach:
for placing a SL at a reasonable level ....
because no broker ever used nor ever will practice STOP HUNTING they say.

No, it never ever happened on this earth and
the NFA just invented that mysterious Dealer plugin software.
They fabricated a conspiracy theory only, right ?

And now the SL-missionaries continue to ricidule everybody who
has better knowledge about what is happening in Forex than they have.
They are spamming this thread with pictures and make very much noise
to obscure the facts.

If you want to read more of that stuff, google "naughty-brokers-busted-forex" and you will find the article.

If you google some more, you will find the offers where the virtual dealer plugin is sold. They offer several modules for different "needs" of the broker.
Hehehe, the "conspiracy theory" of the SL-missionaries is being sold as software.

Such software is used by brokers for things like changing the settings for your individual account if your EA or yourself are too profitable and because the broker takes the other side of your trade, he loses money.
It detects this automatically and allows the broker to change the settings
of your account ( slippage manipulation for example which includes spikes to take out your SL ).

So, better ask your broker if he uses software similar to the virtual dealer plugin and of course he will not lie about it because all brokers are
honest.
The SL-missionaries here guarantee that, they know that all brokers are honest and that the virtual dealer plugin or similar software is
only a "conspiracy theory".

Quoting courtneywild
Its no surprise you leave as the idiots have run amok trying to wreck the thread.
Nacho, why do you allow those guys to ruin your thread ?
Why donīt you ban them ?
  • #318
  • Apr 10, 2012 6:27am Apr 10, 2012 6:27am
Quoting courtneywild
This is an interesting thread and I participate is this style of trading. We made much headway on the "Pitbull trader with position building" thread which seems to have run its course.

Its no surprise you leave as the idiots have run amok trying to wreck the thread. The tried but failed on Pitbull Trader with Position Building which seem similar in approach to this. I'd be interested in participating.

Well done to Nacho for putting up the thread.
Nice to see you on here Courtney

Its an interesting thread, however as you say, its attracted some interesting views from the no stoploss and must use stoploss brigade.

One of the no stop loss chaps has offered to set up a demo to explore the possibility of not using a stoploss, it would be interesting to see one of the vocal 'you must use a stoploss' guru's also doing the same, however Im doubting that they will come forward.

Brian, and chips laterly started a fire on the pitbull thread, but for reasons that you and i know about the posse tried to put the fire out but ended up pissing down their balls, hopefully the same will happen here.

M.
  • #319
  • Edited 7:53am Apr 10, 2012 7:35am | Edited 7:53am
I always listen to the SL bunch. Just to figure out your weaknesses, whereas you, in your orthodoxy literally go ballistic when you hear somebody employing a different strategy. I personally use SL sometimes. Sometimes I don't, depending on how I perceive the risk of the trade to be. That being said, you can use all the SLs in the world, if you are not consistently profitable, you will lose your money. Same applies for the no SL approach.

Anyway, anybody thinking only they know the truth are a bunch of

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Just learn how to trade, and then come here with your BS. Muppets...
  • #320
  • Apr 10, 2012 7:52am Apr 10, 2012 7:52am
Quoting moodybot
Nice to see you on here Courtney

Its an interesting thread, however as you say, its attracted some interesting views from the no stoploss and must use stoploss brigade.

One of the no stop loss chaps has offered to set up a demo to explore the possibility of not using a stoploss, it would be interesting to see one of the vocal 'you must use a stoploss' guru's also doing the same, however Im doubting that they will come forward.

Brian, and chips laterly started a fire on the pitbull thread, but for reasons that you and i know about the posse tried...
Now you got moodybutt and cortnyvild onboard....
They are trading live with big succes not using SL or No SL.
They could probaly teach you a thing or 2...
They just Freeze the Loss...
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
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