No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far | Page 14 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

High leverage vs Low leverage 74 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 21 replies

High Leverage vs Low Leverage 20 replies

Working of Leverage!!! 4 replies

Right now My metatrader3 is not working is yours working? 0 replies

Attachments: No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far
Exit Attachments

No SL No Leverage Strategy - working so far

  • #261
  • Apr 9, 2012 7:18am Apr 9, 2012 7:18am
Quoting nanningbob

I understand, but we all use a SL at some point and end a trade. We all do that or should. After years of playing with this stuff I have found that around 1% you are probably better off killing the trade.
Well hallelujah, after 'years of playing with this stuff' the penny has finally dropped for Bob! Jeez Bob it's not a revelation, traders have been trading this way since the beginning of time!


Quoting nanningbob

3 million or 30 million or more

He breaks up his trading amount, lets say 3 million for an example, into several sections
Commonly called scaling in or averaging in, but don't forget those guys are chasing liquidity all the time, we aren't. That's one big advantage retail traders have, instant fills with very little (if any) slippage.


Quoting nanningbob

You think if they made a mistake they wont hedge their trade and wait for a better entrance or exit.
Hedge it, perhaps. Nedge it, never!


Quoting nanningbob

Since they arent leveraged they dont have swap costs.
There's always interest on cash, leveraged or not.
  • #262
  • Apr 9, 2012 7:18am Apr 9, 2012 7:18am
Quoting attila
I know, it fits perfectly. Equity under water.. LOL.
lol, brilliant! lol
  • #263
  • Apr 9, 2012 7:26am Apr 9, 2012 7:26am
Quoting nanningbob
You state you have empirical evidence,
bob, ecactly there is the problem.
He has no empirical evidence.
He has a locked mind and is defending his beliefs only.

Quote
I have real live evidence backed by years of trading.
Yes.
I have no doubts about that.
But I seriously doubt he has made those profits you made all those years.
Because only a few percent of both parties have that success.

Quote
You fail to recognize that alternative trading styles can be and have been successful.
His beliefs don´t allow him to think against them.
Rather he will fight for his "convictions" forever.

We have such fights in science, politics and especially religions.
Only proves that mankind is not developed enough to live in peace.
  • #264
  • Apr 9, 2012 7:43am Apr 9, 2012 7:43am
Quoting 2+2=4ex
Game. Set. Match.

Shut the thread down.
2+2=4,
a little hint for you:

The debate with LazyPawn was not about comparing different trading styles in a sober manner.

It was a fight of 2 egos because one did not dignify the other.

Remember ?
5 setups.
4 hit SL.
1 hits TP.

Losser: -1 , -1 , -1 , -1 , +1 = - 3
Locker: 0 , 0 , 0 , 0 , +1 = +1

Instead of simply accepting this basic math, he tried to prove something which was besides the point and after he insulted me, he got his knockout from me.

I could have avoided the debate if I would have said:
Ok, you don´t understand nor accept that simple math.
That is ok for me. Now tell me what is on your mind.

Then his ego would have been flattered and he would have been happy and not insulting me.

Right ?

Therefore both are responsible for the fight.

The conclusion for me is this:

Trading it with lock-unlock ( under the premise I outlined ) is profitable.

Trading with SL is profitable too if you know how to trade profitable.
95% don´t , although they religiously use SL.
How come ?

My method can only be traded profitably if you have experience, patience and discipline.
Same applies to SL taking.

It is a matter of preference only.

For one party to say: " No, our method is the only one, the other is crap and nonsense and will kill your account etc." is not true.

It is like the Roman Catholic Church which claims they are the only ones and all others are cults and will go to hell.
Such wrong dogma only fuel strife and the worst in mankind.
  • #265
  • Apr 9, 2012 7:52am Apr 9, 2012 7:52am
I skimmed this thread, and now my head hurts..

edit...

and I'm feeling gassy..
Look Sharp/Trade Tight
  • #266
  • Apr 9, 2012 8:05am Apr 9, 2012 8:05am
Quoting PayTheLimit
I skimmed this thread, and now my head hurts..

edit...

and I'm feeling gassy..
Here you are.. Chilli again?

Man, I'm bored as hell..
  • #267
  • Apr 9, 2012 8:11am Apr 9, 2012 8:11am
Stoplosses are the most highly promoted and punted lessons given out by every single retail fx broker there is . Why you may ask , well its there biggest moneymaker along with a good lashing of leverage.Ever asked yourself what would hapen if say for the next 6 months every single retail trader removed his S/L and lowered his leverage down to as near as 1:1 as possible ie very small lots? Every single retail broker would go out of business. evan with leverage ,they would shit themselves. "Dont forget your S/L chaps" Werever you look. and whobetied anybody that goes against the norm , you get ridiculed and slandered by so called experts (probably FX broker moles)Given the nature of the fx mkt the chances of your 20-50 pip s/l being taken out are huge.Take say a 30 pip stop on any major, mark it with a coulored rectangle and then go back in history to say as far back as when the euro came into play , look and see how many times price crossed that band?? plenty. The same goes for a take profit. So what iam saying is,find a suitable pair that is not at the top or bot. of its range, find a good entry bassed on your own style of trading, make sure you have enough margin to carry u to bot/top end of chart , a healthy t/p and walk away without a knot in your stomach , knowing full well that youve just fucked your broker up the arse and there s nothing he can do about it.You` ve also crossed the floor from being a leveraged gambler to a investment trader .Remeber what FX trading is about, changeing one curr. for another , waiting for it to rise in value ,then changing it back, if u did this at the airport kiosk u would have no problem if it sat in your pocket for 6 mnths , so do the same on your fx acc. Remeber for 2 strong currencies to have a good tradeing agreement for exports etc they have to remain in a state of equilibreium to trade ,hence the yo-yo effect or zig zag, price will allways come back guys if u are caught on the wrong side . the pain u choose to inflict apon youself depends on your leverage
  • #268
  • Apr 9, 2012 8:23am Apr 9, 2012 8:23am
Quoting fxtr51

It is a matter of preference only.
Well not quite!

Your argument seems to base itself solely around the premise that an unrealized loss is not really a loss, a spurious argument to say the least, have you never heard of the terms 'mark to market' or 'net asset value'?

LazyPawn, hanover, and numerous other experienced traders have tried to explain this and other things to you patiently, quietly, with diagrams, examples, and even a pdf!

You, and a few others, seem to have failed to grasp some very simple concepts.

Have you learned nothing from the recent financial meltdown? Institutions also kept floating losses hidden and declared everything was fine, and everything did appear fine until they were forced to mark to market and the proverbial hit the fan! Lesson learned? Seems not.....
  • #269
  • Edited 10:27am Apr 9, 2012 9:44am | Edited 10:27am
Quoting pipmutt
Well not quite!

Your argument seems to base itself solely around the premise that an unrealized loss is not really a loss,
Wrong.
Read again until you understand.
I will not take the time to repeat it all specially for you.
It is all there ....

And remember: -3 % is not equal to +1 % , that is what LazyPawn
and you and others from the SL-party never understood and still haven´t.
Thus you bicker continuously into the wrong direction.

Quoting Jse Alse
Ever asked yourself what would hapen if say for the next 6 months every single retail trader removed his S/L and lowered his leverage down to as near as 1:1 as possible ie very small lots? Every single retail broker would go out of business. evan with leverage ,they would shit themselves. "Dont forget your S/L chaps" Werever you look. and whobetied anybody that goes against the norm , you get ridiculed and slandered by so called experts (probably FX broker moles)
Yes, that is a very good point.
Very very good, because why should a sober and intelligent trader with an open mind fight methods which are profitable ?

I am adding a similar thought which hasn´t been mentioned yet:
A forum makes more money for each click somebody makes.
It is a simple necessity so to speak to have broker moles or other moles who start a fight here or there , to provoke, to offend if necessary
to keep the debates going, to heaten them up, to fuel them ....
because that translates into cash.

Of course FF is not like other forums. Here are no moles , only
honest and well meaning members. What a relief to know that, right ?
  • #270
  • Apr 9, 2012 9:58am Apr 9, 2012 9:58am
Quoting Jse Alsi
Take say a 30 pip stop on any major, mark it with a coulored rectangle and then go back in history to say as far back as when the euro came into play , look and see how many times price crossed that band?? plenty. The same goes for a take profit. So what iam saying is,find a suitable pair that is not at the top or bot. of its range, find a good entry bassed on your own style of trading, make sure you have enough margin to carry u to bot/top end of chart , a healthy t/p and walk away without a knot in your stomach
This really is the essence of my thinking of not using a predefined SL.
I couldnt have expressed it any better than you did. Totally agree. Thanks!
  • #271
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:08am Apr 9, 2012 10:08am
Pleasure ,dont actualy trade fx,did originaly but i now only do the indexes mainly our jse alsi top 40 . fx is the biggest retail scam out if u have to leverage to make it work.Remeber if they punting it ,its for a reason. our Alsi moves on average 300 /600 pips/point a day, here if i get it wrong i have to hedge quickley as iam on a -+ 1:12 leverage . I also only trade the direction of the daily gaps.
  • #272
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:36am Apr 9, 2012 10:36am
Quoting pipmutt
Well not quite!

Your argument seems to base itself solely around the premise that an unrealized loss is not really a loss, a spurious argument to say the least, have you never heard of the terms 'mark to market' or 'net asset value'?

LazyPawn, hanover, and numerous other experienced traders have tried to explain this and other things to you patiently, quietly, with diagrams, examples, and even a pdf!

You, and a few others, seem to have failed to grasp some very simple concepts.

Have you learned nothing from the recent financial meltdown? Institutions...

Hey Mutts... I am a man of few words as my momma told me "son if you cant convince a fool in 30 words dont waste 300" my momma said.

Just catching up here on the thread...

FXTR51's head is in the sand but looking for a light bulb.

Bob has discovered a new way of trading aa 1% loss ! gobsmacked I am.

Atilla is enjoying his new friends in the playground and I think he may be near the top of the class.


2+2=4x.... aahhh 2by....where have you bee? 2by is faster than a rat to jump off a sinking ship. WOOF....

Dedmatvey...what can I say who the hell calls themselves Dead..I dunno???


And last but not least....dum de da dum....

NACHO... Nacho may I suggest to clear things up head on over to :
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=297516

It's the No SL vs SL thread that will clear everything up. trust me....


OK Mutts did I get everything clear???

I gotta go check on my golden egg..... now you fellas knock yourselves out


Cheers

Bluesteele
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #273
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:36am Apr 9, 2012 10:36am
Quoting Jse Alsi
Pleasure ,dont actualy trade fx,did originaly but i now only do the indexes mainly our jse alsi top 40 . fx is the biggest retail scam out if u have to leverage to make it work.Remeber if they punting it ,its for a reason. our Alsi moves on average 300 /600 pips/point a day, here if i get it wrong i have to hedge quickley as iam on a -+ 1:12 leverage . I also only trade the direction of the daily gaps.
A few years ago I trusted a "super forex trader", he had a good website and he was one of the best Elliott-Wave experts.
He managed my live-account and there we went:
Somehow his analysis was correct 99%, so for example he
opened a Short .... and set a SL at the last swing High + a few Pips for spread and safety.

You would not believe it ( not you, Jse Alsi, because you know the dirty game ) , but almost every time the market first spiked
up and got his SL, the price dropped like a stone shortly afterwards.

He lost almost every setup with his SL and even when he put his SL further away the broker hunted it. That was one of the biggest brokers, I won´t name it for obvious reasons.

End of story: after he ruined my live account almost completely, I set a new password and he was out and I told him that I would not use his services
any longer.

The SL-believers will say: No , no, no. Always place a SL and take your loss and move on.
  • #274
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:47am Apr 9, 2012 10:47am
Hey bluesteele,
I just went to the thread you recommended.

Quote
NACHO... Nacho may I suggest to clear things up head on over to :
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=297516

It's the No SL vs SL thread that will clear everything up. trust me....
Great.
It just cleared everything up.

Look:
Quote
My other fellow trader recently started trading about 1 year ago and after learning from a certain guru, advocates no stop loss (your margin call is your stop loss), horrible risk to reward ratios but has similar low leverage. He has been doing phenomenal. Often times achieving 3-4 times more than I make a month in terms of percentage (30-50%)

He claims that because you have a very low leverage, you can withstand a drawdown of maybe 1000 or even 2000 pips before you blow an account - often times for a reward of 100 or 200 pips. It is "impossible"...
Maybe you missed it.

If you don´t agree, then please make a PDF with all quotes from that thread which seem to support your SL-belief,
but don´t forget:
- 3 % is not equal to + 1 % .

And don´t forget that the no sl methods are proven in real life
while you have only theory which doesn´t fit to reality for your claims.

Click, click, click .....
  • #275
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:47am Apr 9, 2012 10:47am
Quoting fxtr51
A few years ago I trusted a "super forex trader", he had a good website and he was one of the best Elliott-Wave experts.
He managed my live-account and there we went:
Somehow his analysis was correct 99%, so for example he
opened a Short .... and set a SL at the last swing High + a few Pips for spread and safety.

You would not believe it ( not you, Jse Alsi, because you know the dirty game ) , but almost every time the market first spiked
up and got his SL, the price dropped like a stone shortly afterwards.

He lost almost every setup with his...

NO NO NO dont trust an idiot to place your stops. Thats the lesson..furthermore perhaps learn yourself...Why dont you just follow what 60 does???? Does he not place stops??? Are his gains not enough for you?

Or you just have to prove your right. Because thats a failed course your on sonny.

Come back in a yr and let us know how it all works for you???

The experienced guys already know. Why dont you listen?


SH!!!! T I just used 30 words again..

gotta go.
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #276
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:49am Apr 9, 2012 10:49am
click click click.. get outta my head..LOL
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #277
  • Apr 9, 2012 10:51am Apr 9, 2012 10:51am
Glad u could see what i was getting at fx51 , when u trade like this it actually becomes so easy and pleasurable , i was amazed to see how many people were trading this morning (south african time). You just never trade without one of the major exchanges being open, there is no direction. its like one idiot tradeing against another , and i saw a good few V10 trading in the various rooms. LMFAO
  • #278
  • Apr 9, 2012 11:06am Apr 9, 2012 11:06am
Oh boy... LOL.. This never ends well, does it? Have fun.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 4irBq.jpg Size: 93 KB
  • #279
  • Apr 9, 2012 11:33am Apr 9, 2012 11:33am
Quoting bluesteele

Hey Mutts... I am a man of few words as my momma told me "son if you cant convince a fool in 30 words dont waste 300" my momma said.
True, and my momma said "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink", and also "a fool and his money are soon parted". Seems both apply to some of the people in this thread!

I see we've got some fresh cannon fodder, the conspiracy theorists are in the house, "my brøker hunted my stops", "my brøker wants me to lose". I love this bit, an "investment trader"!!

Go check your egg man, it might have hatched!

....and for goodness sake stop clucking......I mean clicking......you're making way too much money for FF you brøker mole you!
  • #280
  • Edited 4:58pm Apr 9, 2012 11:35am | Edited 4:58pm
Quoting fxtr51

And remember: -3 % is not equal to +1 %
No shit Sherlock! And your point is?


Quoting fxtr51

why should a sober and intelligent trader with an open mind fight methods which are profitable ?
You said it!


Quoting fxtr51

almost every time the market first spiked up and got his SL, the price dropped like a stone shortly afterwards.

He lost almost every setup
Well doh!

And that display of trading ineptitude somehow justifies, supports, or motivates your argument against using a stop? Boy, you really are lost!


http://i39.tinypic.com/2qjw3e1.jpg


-
0 traders viewing now