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Are you a consistently profitable trader?

  • #281
  • Apr 3, 2012 7:13pm Apr 3, 2012 7:13pm
Quoting hanover
^ means "to the power of", i.e. exponentiation.

I'm not aware of any fundamental difference between a robot, an EA ("expert advisor") and an automated trader. Just different names for the same thing. Maybe somebody else has an answer?
Thanks Hanover for the clarity.

RE: The robot, EA etc...glad to know I wasn't too lost with all the various terminologies out there .

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #282
  • Edited 7:45pm Apr 3, 2012 7:19pm | Edited 7:45pm
Now here's a question (that actually became four) for those of you who use EAs/robots to auto-trade:

When you first started trading, did you start as most traders using indicators etc. and more of a discretionary approach? Having made the transition to robots,

1. How have you changed as a trader?

2. How has your trading approach changed?

3. How have your bottom line results changed?

4. Why did you change to using robots in your trading?

Looking forward to hearing from those who may program these as well. I'm sure there is also some impact on your thinking if, as a programmer, you also trade.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #283
  • Apr 3, 2012 7:56pm Apr 3, 2012 7:56pm
1... for the better...

2... for the better...

3... for the better...

4.... cause manual trading is not one of my abilities.....

//---
//---

as far as lucky streaks mentioned above....

it's quite common to have hundreds and hundreds of wins in a row.... esp when trends are long.... last year i had somewhere around 500....

a live account of mine has yet to have a loss this year with about 150 trades..... another has had only 3 losers, with about 160 trades..... another has had about a dozen, with many many trades.....

is that luck.... perhaps it is..... we might never know..... for sure i am lucky in that the trends favored me...... and i might go so far to say the next 3 months will be as lucky/favorable.....

the bottom line could be as jeanlouie said above, we need a clear definition of what makes money......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #284
  • Apr 3, 2012 8:15pm Apr 3, 2012 8:15pm
Quoting hayseed

1... for the better...

2... for the better...

3... for the better...

4.... cause manual trading is not one of my abilities.....

//---
//---
Great! How long did it take you to find/design and test your system (s). Do you scalp for the most part? Would you manually trade a little if it were one of your abilities?

it's quite common to have hundreds and hundreds of wins in a row.... esp when trends are long.... last year i had somewhere around 500....

a live account of mine has yet to have a loss this year with about 150 trades..... another has had only 3 losers, with about 160 trades..... another has had about a dozen, with many many trades.....

is that luck.... perhaps it is..... we might never know..... for sure i am lucky in that the trends favored me...... and i might go so far to say the next 3 months will be as lucky/favorable.....

If I may ask...what time-frame are you trading and is your robot trading 24/5?

Thanks for the reply,

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #285
  • Apr 3, 2012 8:56pm Apr 3, 2012 8:56pm
1.... it took quite a while, didn't keep track.....

2.... never scalp.... average trade length is > 3 days and > 60 pips....

3.... actually i can manual trade just ea's suit my laid back lifestyle......... similar to i can walk the 2000 miles to peace river, alberta...... but prefer to drive.....

4.... 60, 240 and 1440.....

//----
//----

some might say there are no timeframes..... to each his own.... my view is there are standard, nonstandard and adaptive timeframes....

now it's true, the information, o,h,l,c,v, will differ between us due to differing brokers.... without the standard 60, 240 and 1440 timeframes, my ea will place no trades.....h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #286
  • Apr 3, 2012 9:05pm Apr 3, 2012 9:05pm
Quoting hayseed
4.... 60, 240 and 1440.....

some might say there are no timeframes..... to each his own.... my view is there are standard, nonstandard and adaptive timeframes....

now it's true, the information, o,h,l,c,v, will differ between us due to differing brokers.... without the standard 60, 240 and 1440 timeframes, my ea will place no trades.....h
Great!

Maybe I wasn't clear when I wrote 24/5...I meant 24 hours a day, 5 days a week are your robots running?

What is your understanding/interpretation of "adaptive timeframes"?

Many thanks,

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #287
  • Apr 3, 2012 9:39pm Apr 3, 2012 9:39pm
1.... they run non-stop every minute the market is open.....

2.... adaptive timeframes are multi-minute..... have a look at metastock 11.....

//---

time to lockup the livestock, so that'll do it for me tonite.......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #288
  • Apr 3, 2012 9:40pm Apr 3, 2012 9:40pm
Quoting hayseed
1.... they run non-stop every minute the market is open.....

2.... adaptive timeframes are multi-minute..... have a look at metastock 11.....

//---

time to lockup the livestock, so that'll do it for me tonite.......h
Appreciate the time taken to answer. Have a good night.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #289
  • Apr 3, 2012 11:11pm Apr 3, 2012 11:11pm
marvelous results hayseed

momentarily i was envious.....then i remembered my system required only 50% winners in order to be very successful at this game

which is lucky,........i can continue being mediocre

Quoting hayseed
it's quite common to have hundreds and hundreds of wins in a row.... esp when trends are long.... last year i had somewhere around 500....

a live account of mine has yet to have a loss this year with about 150 trades..... another has had only 3 losers, with about 160 trades..... another has had about a dozen, with many many trades.....
  • #290
  • Apr 4, 2012 7:19am Apr 4, 2012 7:19am
Quoting PeterE
marvelous results hayseed
Agreed PeterE!

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #291
  • Apr 4, 2012 7:26am Apr 4, 2012 7:26am
hey peter..... exactly..... and someone that only averaged only 1% wins could quite possibly beat us both.....

there are those that say %wins mean nothing..... it's true that figure is often abused, misapplied or unduly weighted....

//----

there was guy back in 05/06 that was pushing a heiken-ashi candle ea for sale on his flashy website..... he was common around here, back then..... claimed incredible results with no losing trades.....

and it was all undeniably true..... until the trend changed..... then his winning streak hit the wall along with his website.....

//---

btw, you might be selling yourself short...... for someone that is very successful at this game is a tad more than mediocre.......h
to trade and code, keep both simple... no call to impress....h
  • #292
  • Apr 5, 2012 2:41am Apr 5, 2012 2:41am
Quoting hayseed
hey peter..... exactly..... and someone that only averaged only 1% wins could quite possibly beat us both.....

there are those that say %wins mean nothing..... it's true that figure is often abused, misapplied or unduly weighted....

//----

there was guy back in 05/06 that was pushing a heiken-ashi candle ea for sale on his flashy website..... he was common around here, back then..... claimed incredible results with no losing trades.....

and it was all undeniably true..... until the trend changed..... then his winning streak hit the wall...
Good point Hayseed:

there are those that say %wins mean nothing..... it's true that figure is often abused, misapplied or unduly weighted....

Maybe if it were coupled with some position sizing "formula" it would have more significance. When a trader starts to focus on the math behind making the money, not just the number or percentage of winners vs. losers, the level of the game changes bigtime.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #293
  • Edited 8:26am Apr 5, 2012 5:20am | Edited 8:26am
I've lost count as there have been a few discussion questions along the way.

Here it is...

Of the 55% thus far (at the time of this post) of consistently profitable traders, what percentage of those traders do you think use EAs or robots to trade?

Might be hard to say, but I think it is worth asking. Let's see what we get.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #294
  • Apr 5, 2012 8:33am Apr 5, 2012 8:33am
This might be a tip to help newbies out...

It has been said that newbies try to catch the move very early, just when it might be starting to turn. Beware! If you use stops, you'll probably find that you're being stopped out alot right at those swing highs and lows that you're trying to get in on from the very beginning.

Hope that helps some with their current level of profitability.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #295
  • Edited 10:38am Apr 6, 2012 7:54am | Edited 10:38am
Hey FX4N

Just a passing thought.........

A very good friend trades off quite a large account, over 6 figures.
He entered 6 trades last year, ending the financial year with 19%+ growth on his equity, 4 of the months last year he didnt even make a trade........
2 months were in a row....

A successful year ? absolutely...


All the best JA.
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #296
  • Apr 6, 2012 10:53am Apr 6, 2012 10:53am
Quoting j4d
Hey FX4N

Just a passing thought.........

A very good friend trades off quite a large account, over 6 figures.
He entered 6 trades last year, ending the financial year with 19%+ growth on his equity, 4 of the months last year he didnt even make a trade........
2 months were in a row....

A successful year ? absolutely...


All the best JA.
nice post!
  • #297
  • Edited 3:25pm Apr 6, 2012 3:14pm | Edited 3:25pm
Quoting j4d
Hey FX4N

Just a passing thought.........

A very good friend trades off quite a large account, over 6 figures.
He entered 6 trades last year, ending the financial year with 19%+ growth on his equity, 4 of the months last year he didnt even make a trade........
2 months were in a row....

A successful year ? absolutely...


All the best JA.
Very good j4d...

It is certainly not my intention to argue with profitability . Some people who put on large positions and are not "consistently" trading on a monthly basis do pull in good annual returns. Can they be considered consistently profitable? Gave this definition (from a Google search) of consistent some time ago, but I think repeating it here would be fitting:

 

  1. (of a person, behavior, or process) Unchanging in achievement or effect over a period of time.

It just depends on how one defines consistent. I chose to define it monthly, as I believe that is how the majority of traders would be thinking or evaluating their performance. Many are looking for monthly incomes. With the sporadic, monthly trading schedule of your friend, the definition of "consistently" would have to be modified. I don't think the majority of traders trade that way. If a trader is more of an annual trader, which is what your friend seems to be, then they could be "consistently profitable" by another definition. "A successful year ? absolutely..."...I think you've already defined his style of profitable trading.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

FX4

Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #298
  • Apr 6, 2012 4:38pm Apr 6, 2012 4:38pm
Hey FX4N,

I appreciate your reply, indeed if you think I was trying to manipulate the thread please except my apology.
I suppose i was really trying to "air" the unique ways in which it is possible to make hard edged returns in retail trading industry.

My Friend trades this way purely because of his circumstances, he enjoys a well paid job, He works exceedingly long hours, he checks the daily charts
for 20 min's every day and waits for what he thinks are high expectation trades.

My Friend has the patience of a saint, it works for him.

Thanks for starting the thread anyway, its been interesting reading...

JA.
Memories caught in time but never forgotten
  • #299
  • Apr 6, 2012 4:59pm Apr 6, 2012 4:59pm
"My Friend trades this way purely because of his circumstances, he enjoys a well paid job, He works exceedingly long hours, he checks the daily charts
for 20 min's every day and waits for what he thinks are high expectation trades."

Hi j4d,
if only you don't mind to answer...
what kind of sign that your friend see as high expectation trades.
I wanna know-wanna know-wanna know

thank you,
Gofi
  • #300
  • Apr 6, 2012 5:06pm Apr 6, 2012 5:06pm
Quoting j4d
Hey FX4N,

I appreciate your reply, indeed if you think I was trying to manipulate the thread please except my apology.
I suppose i was really trying to "air" the unique ways in which it is possible to make hard edged returns in retail trading industry.

My Friend trades this way purely because of his circumstances, he enjoys a well paid job, He works exceedingly long hours, he checks the daily charts
for 20 min's every day and waits for what he thinks are high expectation trades.

My Friend has the patience of a saint, it works for him.

Thanks...
No JA, I didn't think you were, and sorry if my reply sounded like I did. I am very glad that you aired that reality...that people actually do make profits in the retail trading industry.

...the patience of a saint...That is one of the ingredients of successful trading, especially position trading. The "best" trading opportunities come when a trader can wait for things to "line up"...it just takes time. Scalping based on momentum works for some. It's really funny how different folks and different "trading" strokes can still come out with + pips at the end of it all.

Profitability is really the bottom line. Consistency is an added bonus.

Thanks again for sharing,

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
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