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90% of traders lose money! True or False?

  • #61
  • Feb 25, 2012 11:28am Feb 25, 2012 11:28am
Quoting Pommegranate
Guys, let's be simple. 90% of traders loose money constantly because they fail to follow one simple rule - to place stop loss.
Quoting Pommegranate
I wasn't saying that placing stop loss orders will make you a kick ass trader. It will help you to survive much much longer and adjust your strategy. Otherwise you gonna blow up very shortly.

Trading was and never will be a simple business.
well, your first statement implies that you will become a profitable trader when employing a stoploss.

Now your second statement suggests, that you will still lose, just slowlier. I can agree with that. Just employing a stoploss is definitely not something that can make you a profitable trader.
  • #62
  • Feb 25, 2012 11:47am Feb 25, 2012 11:47am
Have only read the first post, sorry, couldn't be bothered to read 4 pages. I just want to share my opinion.

I think the retail failure rate is above 90%. Even so, are you surprised? I'm not anymore. There are so many aspects of trading that cause retailers to fail.

Firstly, the education that is offered to retailers is often BS.

Secondly, retailers are obsessed with indicators which provide them with a 'smoke and mirrors' view of the market.

Thirdly, because forex is advertised as 'easy money', retailers are led to believe that it does not take thousands of hours practise, study and effort to get the hang of it - you need to be committed and dedicated.

Fourthly, you need to have a good hold on yourself and your emotions. Fear, greed, regret, resentment, revenge, ect. are all emotions that control a trader and cause them to make bad decisions. Learning to trade is also about training yourself to control your state and emotion - a very good thing to learn as a life skill anyway.

Fifthly, misunderstanding or misusing money/risk management. MM is one of the main and hardest skills of trading. It relates strongly to my previous point.

Lastly, there are many more reasons.

If you really want to trade for a living then forget about the statistics that say '95% fail blah blah blah, forex is impossible blah blah blah.' Get down and get dirty and get yourself successful. If anyone tells you that you can't do something tell them to fuck off. Be dedicated and persistent and you will be a successful and profitable trader.

Right now I am not profitable because I am still learning and I am trading with relatively small funds while I learn. I am getting better, working hard on my psychology/emotions and MM. Being a scalper, those things are very important.

Anyway, hope this helps.
  • #63
  • Feb 25, 2012 12:47pm Feb 25, 2012 12:47pm
Quoting rafaello
i wanna find out if the statistics is right about it, so let;s say for the last 3 months did you
1) lose money
2)make money

and in your opinion, do you agree that the only side who makes money on forex is FX companies themselfs, and of course Interbanks.

A basic stats course would make it clear how the sample you'd get from this forum wouldn't be statistically relevant.

Look up the CFTC survey number as submitted by brokers... ~30-40% are profitable at any given time but that number is skewed since old busted out accounts are removed from the client base from inactivity.
FXGears.com
  • #64
  • Feb 25, 2012 5:28pm Feb 25, 2012 5:28pm
First off yes people lose money because

A- They hop in to fast; they think that there is this magical secret to trading Forex, some indicator, or EA, or method that will let them win all the time. The goal is to learn how to trade, I can't tell you how many times I have been asked to help others trade and when I give them a simple chart set up using EMAs they ask me where can they find the EMA indicator if I can give it to them.......really, in real life they just said that!

B- People don't take the time to learn how the market moves. I also don't buy into the BS that it will take you years to learn how to trade; it depends on you and you alone! Yes if you have someone who is already a trader and successful at it teach you it cuts your learning curve in half. You have to find out what kind of trader you are, do you like scalping, intraday, long term etc.

C- Lack of knowledge, if you can’t tell me about multiple time frame analysis, trend lines, Support and Resistance lines, news, candle stick patterns and so forth then you lack knowledge that you will need in order to trade.

D- Don’t buy into that BS of you can trade with 100, 200, or even 500$ Does not matter what type of risk management you have in place because you will not be able to ride a trade while it either pulls back, gets pushed up by news, or test a new low or high, thus you get a margin call, that’s what kills most new traders.

E- DEMO, DEMO and DEMO some more, consider it your internship, learn, you need to have a method down whatever it might be, because there is no right or wrong way to trade Forex, if I use a magical unicorn horn and you use the left molar of a leprechauns’ tooth and we both come in to profit then good! You need to demo until it becomes so redundant that when you go live the fear of placing a live trade will be gone because you know that price is going to go in your direction.

F- Last but not least don’t hope on the market, and yes the market will do what the market wants to do, it will blow past your fib lines, 200EMAs, and look at you and laugh! That’s Forex for you!
  • #65
  • Feb 25, 2012 5:55pm Feb 25, 2012 5:55pm
not sure about others or the 90%, though i made money for last 2 months, been trading for last 4 years and have had my best two months in 4 years on this tiny account, however does not prove that i will be profitable in the future, only recently it has become known to me what works and what doesn't, for me anyways
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  • #66
  • Feb 26, 2012 2:08am Feb 26, 2012 2:08am
Quoting iTrade FX
C- Lack of knowledge, if you can’t tell me about multiple time frame analysis, trend lines, Support and Resistance lines, news, candle stick patterns and so forth then you lack knowledge that you will need in order to trade.
that knowledge is not needed at all to become profitable.
Quoting iTrade FX
D- Don’t buy into that BS of you can trade with 100, 200, or even 500$ Does not matter what type of risk management you have in place because you will not be able to ride a trade while it either pulls back, gets pushed up by news, or test a new low or high, thus you get a margin call, that’s what kills most new traders.
please explain further, I don't understand that argument. For newbs there are brokers that allow you to trade nanolots. So, even with a 100 dollar, you would be able to have proper risk management and not get margin called
Quoting iTrade FX
F- Last but not least don’t hope on the market, and yes the market will do what the market wants to do, it will blow past your fib lines, 200EMAs, and look at you and laugh! That’s Forex for you!
yeah, cause all that crap is irrelevant.
  • #67
  • Feb 26, 2012 2:52pm Feb 26, 2012 2:52pm
Quoting rafaello
i wanna find out if the statistics is right about it, so let;s say for the last 3 months did you
1) lose money
2)make money

and in your opinion, do you agree that the only side who makes money on forex is FX companies themselfs, and of course Interbanks.
I traded 3 year demo,and finally decided to go live.

I started October 1st (last year) and to date have a turned £2000 in to £2223.41,I'm happy with that.

Max drawdown 2.71%

Those who lose(tend to be,not always) people who trade live too early,or think it's easy to do(it isn't).

I'm trading 0.1 lots,of which people say is to high for a small account (50/1 leverage)

It's all about experience,discipline and money management.

I could have went 0.2/3 lots HIGH risk and made a lot more,BUT also it could have gone against me and I'd then be in a VERY negative position,maybe leading to( as others have done, a blown account)

I'm sure I can go on from this in a very positive manner,but please remember I traded demo,for 3 years
  • #68
  • Feb 26, 2012 4:01pm Feb 26, 2012 4:01pm
Quoting kendeb57
I traded 3 year demo,and finally decided to go live.
I am yet to go live fully, first of all are you trading the same way you did in demo as you are now on live?
Also apart from your emotions did you notice any difference between trading demo and live? i.e some claim to see spikes in live data feed which arnt there on demo?
Thanks
  • #69
  • Feb 26, 2012 5:50pm Feb 26, 2012 5:50pm
Quoting robthorp
I am yet to go live fully, first of all are you trading the same way you did in demo as you are now on live?
Also apart from your emotions did you notice any difference between trading demo and live? i.e some claim to see spikes in live data feed which arnt there on demo?
Thanks
Noticed no difference(slippage,a little) none in demo,but as I've already stated risk/money management is the key.

On demo I made a LOT but had over 30% drawdown,which (to me) live is practically impossible to live with,unless you want to wipe out your account.

Hope that helps
  • #70
  • Feb 26, 2012 7:35pm Feb 26, 2012 7:35pm
Quote
that knowledge is not needed at all to become profitable
.Really now..!! .. Trading S/R levels , have been traded profitably since before you were shitting green.



Quote
yeah, cause all that crap is irrelevant.
Of course it is...if you spend your time jumping from one system to another...But find yourself a solid method, and stick to it...You just may find,that this crap does become relevant.
  • #71
  • Feb 28, 2012 1:03pm Feb 28, 2012 1:03pm
Quoting GibsonL6
.Really now..!! .. Trading S/R levels , have been traded profitably since before you were shitting green.
Custos didn't say that knowing S/R wouldn't make you profitable, he said that knowing S/R is not necessary to make you profitable. To add, and I think he'd agree, even if you do know S/R in and out like the back of your hand, even if you can draw S/R with the best of them and match the charts of a fantastic trader, it still is not enough by itself to make you profitable.

If you took a successful trader and had him draw up his chart daily and give it to an unsuccessful trader, I can virtually guarantee you not much will change for the unsuccessful trader. Conversely, have an unsuccessful trader draw up his chart daily and give it to the successful trader and I would bet he will still make money.

As for the 90% (or 95, or 99) figure, there will never be a definitive answer. It's a vague statement that could be interpreted in many ways. The way I prefer to think of it, as it seems most practical to most of us, is that 99% of people who attempt to trade give up without reaching their goal of consistent profitability. This includes a huge chunk of traders who don't necessarily lose money, but are never able to make the final push past breakeven into profitability. I would venture to guess that the portion of people who neither lose nor win a lot of money is larger than that of people who just straight up lose, lose, and lose again before giving up.
  • #72
  • Feb 29, 2012 9:10am Feb 29, 2012 9:10am
Quoting GibsonL6
.Really now..!! .. Trading S/R levels , have been traded profitably since before you were shitting green.



Of course it is...if you spend your time jumping from one system to another...But find yourself a solid method, and stick to it...You just may find,that this crap does become relevant.
sorry, only noticed just now that you replied to my post.
Yeah, as smittens4212 already said, I only said that you can as well be profitable without knowing about S/R levels.

And sorry to disappoint you. I am not a system jumper, but stick to the systems I researched and have shown to make consistent profits. And none of them needs fib lines, ema's or any other of this crap

but funny that you got so heated up by my post. Normally people only get so defensive very fast if they are themselves unsecure or not sure if their approach really works. I guess you are just working on becoming profitable by trading S/R levels and that is why you found my post offensive
  • #73
  • Edited 2:11pm Feb 29, 2012 1:50pm | Edited 2:11pm
Quoting Custos

fib lines, ema's or any other of this crap
Fib lines and ema's 'crap'? lol, ok

Nothing is 'crap' if it helps a trader produce consistent profitability, heck some traders use moon cycles for chrissakes!
  • #74
  • Feb 29, 2012 11:53pm Feb 29, 2012 11:53pm
Quoting pipmutt
Fib lines and ema's 'crap'? lol, ok

Nothing is 'crap' if it helps a trader produce consistent profitability, heck some traders use moon cycles for chrissakes!
I just mean they are overcomplicating the matter.
  • #75
  • Mar 4, 2012 8:20pm Mar 4, 2012 8:20pm
regardless of what percentage there is between those who profit continuously and are affluent from trading, and those who loose continuously... is one main factor and that is: Discipline.

And you'll ONLY learn it by loosing money.

No study, courses, demo accounts, lecturer's will ever teach you how to control your emotions. Only live trading will teach you that.
  • #76
  • Mar 4, 2012 8:29pm Mar 4, 2012 8:29pm
Quoting Sohail786
not sure about others or the 90%, though i made money for last 2 months, been trading for last 4 years and have had my best two months in 4 years on this tiny account, however does not prove that i will be profitable in the future, only recently it has become known to me what works and what doesn't, for me anyways
Your balance chart seems to have a very strong support trend!!!
  • #77
  • Mar 7, 2012 11:39am Mar 7, 2012 11:39am
so 10% make it? since when did forex become charity?

the number is more like 2%.now digest that.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #78
  • Mar 10, 2012 12:09pm Mar 10, 2012 12:09pm
Well interesting thing is forex. I think 75 percent depends on psychology. So you should learn that first. And with real money. Of course with small ( 1-10 bucks accounts with microbrokers like grandcapital, tradefort. Even they give you no deposit bonus). Your task is to trade, and closely observe yourself. You must after trading begin to know, under which emotion you were in variuos moments. And try to control them. Second big obstacle - anxiety. In trading it becomes huge. So before trade you need to ,,heal'' yourself, or in other words like ancient Japan warriors meditate. Meditation should be thinking about bad things. Thinking, what bad will happen to you then you will be trading. You will get a lot of drawdawns... Also, to defeat anxiety you should sit before pc only after you had sports, cleaning workplace, even doing something with your body - shaving...etc. Also, you need to have little ,,party''. And another thing - you have to get from somethere emotion help. Maybe forum of your adored musician.... And these things should be done only to fight back a liitle anxiety. So it's whole ceremony before trading. If you don't do that, you will feel another symptoms: 1. Paralyzis of mind or going in ,,sleeping mode'' during important periods. About 30 minutes it lasts. 2. Unnoticed afraid attacks. 3. Irracional thinking 4. Your winner trades will make you very risk averse. 5. Negativity, sadness 6. Big drawdawns will crush you for long. Then gradually you will find your weak places - your risk, your moments. You have to find how to deal with them. Only then you can increase money deposits. Van tharp said also how to train yourself. When you loose, stand by your working place and look into your chair. Imagine there sits some supertrader and he got the same drawdawn like you. Thing that he thinks at that moment and what his approach to that problem. Another thing - you should go to some park sit and talk to yourself. About your biggest mistake. You should vocaly repeat and promise to yourself : I will make that mistake, but 10 times smaller another time. So that only surface of psychology. You can do research on yourself by finding your weaknesses. Horoscope, type of temperament, type of character 12 types (intj, intp)... Van tharp has tests on his website... When you according to findings will build your system, there weak places will be eliminated or automatized. System is 10 percent of success I think. It can be SMA only. And probabilities, statistics, history ,''laws'' of history of instrument. System should be 70 - 80 percent accurate. Only then you can try on her martingale or anti martingale systems. So your accuracy maximum can reach 93-95 percent. Remember, system must work in times then market is not volatile, and in trending time (CCI, ADX, MA)... Trends trade is easiest way. Then market is calm , SR holds stronger, so you can do scalping TP1, SL3..., stoch... A million ways... And rest thing is money management. Dont use more 0.5 percent of depozit on one trade to loose. And 3 percent of depozit on all trades opened to loose. It's long way. Then you will reach destination initial, another problems will arise... And becoming a trader takes about 10 000 hours of practice... Almost like jet pilot...
  • #79
  • Mar 10, 2012 3:55pm Mar 10, 2012 3:55pm
Quoting vaidas7777
Well interesting thing is forex. I think 75 percent depends on psychology. So you should learn that first. And with real money. Of course with small ( 1-10 bucks accounts with microbrokers like grandcapital, tradefort. Even they give you no deposit bonus). Your task is to trade, and closely observe yourself. You must after trading begin to know, under which emotion you were in variuos moments. And try to control them. Second big obstacle - anxiety. In trading it becomes huge. So before trade you need to ,,heal'' yourself, or in other words like...
puh, apparently the job as a trader really requires us to consult a thousand dollar per hour shrink. Thanks for warning us in advance.
Quoting vaidas7777
System is 10 percent of success I think. It can be SMA only. And probabilities, statistics, history ,''laws'' of history of instrument. System should be 70 - 80 percent accurate. Only then you can try on her martingale or anti martingale systems. So your accuracy maximum can reach 93-95 percent. Remember, system must work in times then market is not volatile, and in trending time (CCI, ADX, MA)... Trends trade is easiest way. Then market is calm , SR holds stronger, so you can do scalping TP1, SL3..., stoch... A million ways... And rest thing...
newbie talk, have heard that crap a thousand times, and it still didn't become anymore true/correct than in the beginning when I heard that bollox the first time.
  • #80
  • Mar 10, 2012 4:11pm Mar 10, 2012 4:11pm
So please tell your opinion. I did it all what I talked about.
I don't want tu use dirty tricks trading like broker weaknesses, signal between two brokers etc... Or use bonuses/rebates...
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