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Which system is the best? Or which combinations of systems work the best? 46 replies

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Best High Risk trading in Forex?

  • #41
  • Feb 10, 2012 6:42pm Feb 10, 2012 6:42pm
Quoting Brutalpip
Exactly, and from this on my only goal was this:

In order to be able to risk 30% of your total account, you must find an occasion every day, that gives you a perfectly foreseeable trade.

A situation where the balance of power in the markets is 100% obvious.
Oh, and in my opinion no "system" gives you that, only you alone, measuring power of bulls and bears by eyesight.

A happy and fast journey
yes that 30% risk can produce 100% that's the fact.
-----------------
  • #42
  • Feb 11, 2012 5:05am Feb 11, 2012 5:05am
Come one, dude. You want to get rich super fast, without any knowledge and work. You have much better chance of doing so by going to casino.

Quoting Proffesor Pi
I just don't have to patience for doing the long grind the "safe" way which would take most likely 20-30 years with my small starting capital.
I want to have a HIGH RISK and if I make it I'll be rich after that year and if I lose then I can finally stop my struggle of becoming rich sometime in my life.
  • #43
  • Feb 11, 2012 5:48am Feb 11, 2012 5:48am
Quoting Brutalpip
They posted their results.
Don't you find it strange that 99% of people here only post positive results and almost no negative ones? Either everybody here is a trading genius, or they just post when they are in a profitable position and forget about all the losers.
In my opinion they only post profitable trades.

Quoting Brutalpip
I remember one older guy on here, he had a pretty complicated combination of indies, the core signal was a bounce from the upper Bollinger Band, falling with increasing volatility. I have seen this setup hundreds of times on all TFs. The man showed his results for the last couple of months, the R/R was incredible.
Did you know that the brain can see patterns in totally random data. It was actually researched by some american scientists. This structuring of data or our environment has been very important for our survival. But in the financial markets this ability of the brain to make sense of its environment is hindering it to find profitable ways. I can give you any setup and you will find any of these setups a hundred times on all tfs as well, and your brain will disregard all the instances when it didn't work. In the end you believe you have a profitable system, when in fact you tricked yourself (unintentionally).
Quoting Brutalpip
The next thing is, I have seen this statement to be true:
Discretionary trading is the most successful way of trading, for those who get it.
Discretion: Rules that you haven't formulated yet. Everybody is using a system, some just don't know the rules of their own system.
Quoting Brutalpip
It sounds illogical maybe, but really, a system holds you back and keeps you on a moderate level (moderate returns still can be amazing, if they come every day).
Every day? It's not about getting profits everyday. It's about growing the account over the long-term. And believe me, you don't need profits every day to do that.

Quoting Brutalpip
I love statistics, but there seems to be more than one truth, and things that can't be measured.
For example? Don't stay vague. If you have something to say, then give examples.
  • #44
  • Feb 11, 2012 1:22pm Feb 11, 2012 1:22pm
Quoting Proffesor Pi
Seriously, 99% of all people on this forum seems set on making unconstructive comments.
Everything is on this forum is just "CANT CANT CANT".
Who said can't? You did, for the second time. Someone's trying to tell you something.

Putting aside the fact you want to do no work, you don't understand expectancy, you want a 10-fold increase in your account. You're now upset that someone doesn't agree with your hairbrained method of achieving it too?

Quoting Proffesor Pi
Try and help me or stop posting in my thread.
Sure thing. I've just done both
  • #45
  • Feb 12, 2012 10:29am Feb 12, 2012 10:29am
Custos, thanks for the answer. Ill try to be more concrete.

From the beginning, I was interested in detecting, not even predicting but detecting a massive rise up or massive fall down. I checked candles, the good old Engulfing and the Pins, I played with slow and fast EMAs for months. Btw, for some reason, I never cared for trendlines, because price shows me if there is a resistance or not.
So I have finally achieved my goal. Without any of the above, but by just subjective relying on the strength and the play of pressure from bulls and bears, I see and feel when to trust the dominant force. New Highs and Lows are more precious than any measure in numbers or any caculations.

This "system" gives me the very results I want. Whenever I saw a massive rock rolling over one side, over the bears everyday this January, I jumped onto it and never was disappointed. Plus, I am able to enter long before a new high is made. What else could you wish for?

In numbers, this can give you anything you want, solely depending on how picky you are. At times, so much power is accumulated that you dont need to fear price running against you for a single pip. You can see with your open eyes that one side is struggling hard and is about to be slaughtered by the other one. Almost everyday, I watch the charts for 20 or more bars, and they speak only the same one word.

This is my way of mastering what the Thread starter asked for.

Agree? Success everyone
  • #46
  • Feb 12, 2012 10:34am Feb 12, 2012 10:34am
I agree that skepticism towards all the claims is justified, but there are two things that have guided me in this forum:

- the sound, the way a trader expresses himself, shows if he has a deep understanding and full control over his thoughts, and if he does have history in the game

- immediately searching for the mechanics that made them money, on my own charts.

There is not more available than that if you really want to find out about unconventional approaches, in my opinion.

PS: I am preparing to formulate hard rules of mine, and Ill share them soon.
  • #47
  • Feb 12, 2012 11:06am Feb 12, 2012 11:06am
well, but all this can be statistically verified as well. It's not an example of what cannot be statistically verified.

Quoting Brutalpip
Custos, thanks for the answer. Ill try to be more concrete.

From the beginning, I was interested in detecting, not even predicting but detecting a massive rise up or massive fall down. I checked candles, the good old Engulfing and the Pins, I played with slow and fast EMAs for months. Btw, for some reason, I never cared for trendlines, because price shows me if there is a resistance or not.
So I have finally achieved my goal. Without any of the above, but by just subjective relying on the strength and the play of pressure from bulls and bears,...
  • #48
  • Feb 12, 2012 12:10pm Feb 12, 2012 12:10pm
How?

I said, none of the above are really necessary indications. I trade based on how "much" either side is able to move price, and my entries never tolerate more than 8-10 pips against me. Noone taught me a statistically and mechanically describable method to achieve this, but Id love to hear from others having a similar approach.
  • #49
  • Feb 12, 2012 12:17pm Feb 12, 2012 12:17pm
Quoting Brutalpip
How?

I said, none of the above are really necessary indications. I trade based on how "much" either side is able to move price, and my entries never tolerate more than 8-10 pips against me. Noone taught me a statistically and mechanically describable method to achieve this, but Id love to hear from others having a similar approach.
Okay, let me give you a quick guideline on how to use stats.

Log a couple of thousand trades into excel using your "discretionary system". Once you got this you can do a statistical analysis on how much your average winners and your average loser are, what the outliers are, which months are the best, which are the worst,...

You can do a statistical analysis of almost anything, even of your discretionary system.
  • #50
  • Feb 12, 2012 1:17pm Feb 12, 2012 1:17pm
I dont care about statistics. I have lost hundreds of hours with moderate methods which put a tight corsette onto yourself.

They work, I have seen it. But you need either 10 years or 50 000 to start with.



Custos, do you know that exceptional traders started out with nothing? nothing means: 100 dollar. Do you think they made 1% each month? This is not exceptional.

I know your opinions, Ive been reading you for months. Still Id like to see a kind of openness and allowing for the ultimatum to unfold before your eyes, so that you will not discourage people from trying what few practice.

If not in this thread, then well talk again on a special one, statistically proven by charts. I like long time skeptics like you
  • #51
  • Feb 12, 2012 1:22pm Feb 12, 2012 1:22pm
Seems like you haven't read my recent posts.
I know now that high returns in the realms of 1000% a year are perfectly possible. One just needs a good system and allow for big drawdowns. But I have something against trading with big risk. If you trade with too big risk, you will blow your account. The returns you want to achieve have to be in balance with the max drawdown you allow.

And about openness. I am open for anything, I just need to verify it. As long as I see it in numbers, I can change my opinions in an instant. Too much crap gets blown out there, you need a method that cuts through the bs, and for me that is statistics.

Quoting Brutalpip
I dont care about statistics. I have lost hundreds of hours with moderate methods which put a tight corsette onto yourself.

They work, I have seen it. But you need either 10 years or 50 000 to start with.



Custos, do you know that exceptional traders started out with nothing? nothing means: 100 dollar. Do you think they made 1% each month? This is not exceptional.

I know your opinions, Ive been reading you for months. Still Id like to see a kind of openness and allowing for the ultimatum to unfold before your eyes, so that you will not...
  • #52
  • Feb 12, 2012 2:16pm Feb 12, 2012 2:16pm
Ok, lets stay concrete - 1000% a year is realistic. this would mean to turn the 100 dollar of those exceptional traders into 1000 at the end of the year.

are you sure that thats would these people do? i am serious with that question, Id like to bend your beliefs so that you will acknowledge those "unrealistic goals" idealistic people have, on here as possible.

the claim that you absolutely need to have 10 000 to achieve anything in trading has been proven false by many traders outside of any message boards.

Success
  • #53
  • Feb 12, 2012 3:37pm Feb 12, 2012 3:37pm
Quoting Brutalpip
Ok, lets stay concrete - 1000% a year is realistic. this would mean to turn the 100 dollar of those exceptional traders into 1000 at the end of the year.

are you sure that thats would these people do? i am serious with that question, Id like to bend your beliefs so that you will acknowledge those "unrealistic goals" idealistic people have, on here as possible.

the claim that you absolutely need to have 10 000 to achieve anything in trading has been proven false by many traders outside of any message boards.

Success
I don't know what you want from me, all I said is that you should be more specific on what can't get statistically verified. You still didn't give me an example.

Now we are at a totally different topic. When did I say that somebody needs 10.000 $ to be successful? Yeah, 1000% is possible, just not for most people. Cause most don't do the research required and many are not comfortable with the drawdowns (me included).

Not sure what you are trying to prove or disprove. And no, you can't bend my beliefs, cause I don't have any. I either know something or I don't, and that only comes from my research. YOU definitely can't bend or change what I know, only my future research can.
  • #54
  • Feb 18, 2012 7:40pm Feb 18, 2012 7:40pm
20 trading days in a month x 12 = 240 trading days

$1000 is 1000% of $100

$1000 / 240 = $4.16 means around 5% a day you need profit to reach 1000% in a year

so

what is method to get 5% a day?

This calculation is wrong in a sense.(Making 1000% per year is possible) i will go in details in a bit a simple $1,000*1000% = $11,000 100% of $1,000=$2,000 your money is double * it by 10 which mean 100% *10 and you have 1000% which result in $10,000 hence $10.000 + capital =$11,000 which mean that you only need to make as you said %4.16 means around 5% a day you need profit to reach around %1000 in a year but it posssible if you look on it with another twist to calulation compond intrest.just something to think about(For the record i have another user name just was looking to see what's up on this forum and say this trend)
  • #55
  • Feb 18, 2012 11:45pm Feb 18, 2012 11:45pm
To begin with....Forex is High Risk, all by itself...
Even with the best MM, it's still High Risk...That will never change..!!!

Compounding an already High Risk Investment, with Foolish Risks, only leads to one road... The Blown Account Road....
Any experienced Trader, will tell you the same thing....

No matter how long you've been Trading,or how experienced you are.... there will always be losing Trades...There will always be periods of Drawdown...

If you're always Maxing out your Margin, all it takes is one Bad Trade to wipe you out ....Because , chances are... if you are taking such Big Risks on each Trade, you will have a real hard time letting go of those Big Losers...
Thats when it becomes a Psychological thing.....seeing those Big Dollar Figures that your Broker now has...and you want back....
It just spirals downward from there..!!!!

It just doesn't work...!!!

Trading is about keeping an Edge ...always...

There is no Edge in Foolish Trades....!!!
  • #56
  • Edited 12:25am Feb 19, 2012 12:10am | Edited 12:25am
What if said trader loses all your money? If it is done legally than you can try
to get funds back, if not it's your loss. That's why it's not worth in many instances for a pro to legally trade a small amount of risk capital
like 10,000 in high risk markets like FX.

There are people that will trade your account using orders and Long term trades
You're not going to pay 10% more like at least 30%

It is very time consuming / grueling for one person to manage multiple accounts of real money as well as their own.
XAU-XAG/USD_Gold n Silver Trader's Thread = Technicals, Fundamentals & News
  • #57
  • Feb 19, 2012 7:31am Feb 19, 2012 7:31am
Quoting GibsonL6
To begin with....Forex is High Risk, all by itself...
Even with the best MM, it's still High Risk...That will never change..!!!

Compounding an already High Risk Investment, with Foolish Risks, only leads to one road... The Blown Account Road....
Any experienced Trader, will tell you the same thing....

No matter how long you've been Trading,or how experienced you are.... there will always be losing Trades...There will always be periods of Drawdown...

If you're always Maxing out your Margin, all it takes is one Bad Trade to wipe you out ....Because...
By compounding you can lower your risk in order to make %1000 for the year let me explain making 1% per day for a period of 20 trading day per month calculation for an a average will work out at %1000 return on your investment it's no brainer which mean you can make 50 pips per day at 20c using $1,000 and make $10 which is 1% and you keep that risk going with same calulation for the whole year and you will have %1000 return @ 20C on $1000 you would need 5000pips drawdown on a 200:1 account to blown your account and if your are a trader that's not possible and if capable of making 100pips per day then you lower your risk to 10c per day which give you more room of 10,000 pips to blow your account and as i said if you are a trader that's not possible trading is simple and making money is also just your approach is the key as young trader learn to trade they lose their way because they can't see how simple it's is they complicate it with making bigger return and there method of trading and lose there way. I hope this open the eyes to many and yes i do agree with having a edge.
  • #58
  • Feb 19, 2012 9:59am Feb 19, 2012 9:59am
You will not find a trader making this kind of return to trade your money unless you know them personally. You may find a profitable money manager with normal returns that you do not know personally to agree to trade your account using extremely high risk per trade for you, but they will not take peanuts and you will probably not be willing to lose their minimum deposit.

If you truly do not mind losing your initial deposit and am in it for a gamble then I would recommend a no loss strategy. Take a look at martingale or grid trading strategies. I would not normally recommend this to any 'trader', but if you are here for a gamble then these strategies have the chance for huge return with no experience or knowledge of the forex market. You are much more likely to lose your initial deposit though. You would probably be better off taking your money to the casino

I don't know what your definition of rich is. Your profile says you live in sweden so I am guessing in excess of 1 million. Keep in mind that you will need to put $100,000 on the line to get a million at 1000% return. A 1000% return with no experience is very unlikely and you will almost certainly loose your $100,000. If you want to reduce your initial capital to $10,000 then you will need to gain 10,000% which is such a minuscule chance that you would have to be the stupidest of stupid gamblers to expect it if you have no idea what you are doing. The forex market is definitely not the best place for gambling. You are better of at the casino or the track.
  • #59
  • Feb 19, 2012 9:49pm Feb 19, 2012 9:49pm
Quoting Tip2Top
By compounding you can lower your risk in order to make %1000 for the year let me explain making 1% per day for a period of 20 trading day per month calculation for an a average will work out at %1000 return on your investment it's no brainer which mean you can make 50 pips per day at 20c using $1,000 and make $10 which is 1% and you keep that risk going with same calulation for the whole year and you will have %1000 return @ 20C on $1000 you would need 5000pips drawdown on a 200:1 account to blown your account and if your are a trader that's not...

LOL...You talk very Newbie..ish..!!!

I can also achieve any desired result on paper..
The only problem is...It never works out that way, in the real world..

What are you going to do during losing streaks...
What if you have a bad week, or a bad month....

You certainly can't compound that....


You simply can't bank on making an "X " amount of pips everyday....consistently month after month...
You can only take , what the market gives you...
Or lose what the market takes from you....

You are setting yourself up, for a Big disappointment my friend..!!!
Once you've been around the block a few times, you'll begin to see how the real Forex world works..
  • #60
  • Feb 19, 2012 10:15pm Feb 19, 2012 10:15pm
Quoting GibsonL6
LOL...You talk very Newbie..ish..!!!

I can also achieve any desired result on paper..
The only problem is...It never works out that way, in the real world..

What are you going to do during losing streaks...
What if you have a bad week, or a bad month....

You certainly can't compound that....


You simply can't bank on making an "X " amount of pips everyday....consistently month after month...
You can only take , what the market gives you...
Or lose what the market takes from you....

You are setting yourself up, for a Big disappointment...
Good day for the record around the block lol i see your profile say 1-3 years trading, times it by 3 and you are geting close to catching up on me. I mean no harm just had to point that out to you the point of this trend is to find out if 1000% is reachable in a year and i am saying yes it's once you accomplish it for yourself then you will see that it's possible and it's not as hard as it sound and will not spend time debating but just telling you it's possible and very much possible making 1% per day is possible as you develope into a trader and that's all it will take to make 1000% for the year if your mind is set around it not being possible it's all because you have not fully develope as yet as a trader and when you do then you will see the possibilty
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