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i want only 1 pip everyday

  • #41
  • Feb 10, 2012 3:13pm Feb 10, 2012 3:13pm
screw that 1 pip a day, 30 pip a month. secure 30 pips a day and chill for the rest of the month.
  • #42
  • Feb 11, 2012 1:19am Feb 11, 2012 1:19am
Quoting barefoot1988
screw that 1 pip a day, 30 pip a month. secure 30 pips a day and chill for the rest of the month.
That's impossible. Forex market doesn't move one way.
  • #43
  • Feb 11, 2012 4:39pm Feb 11, 2012 4:39pm
I can't post a new thread yet so this seems like as decent as any to ask my question...

I am looking to get back into trading, forex specifically. I had some experience with forex 5-6 years ago, but most of my trading was in stocks and options, with some futures.

When assessing your risk in a trade, is it safe to plan it based on the stop loss? Or are there multiple times when the market will simply move very quickly against you and the stop loss means nothing? In stocks and most futures, these kind of moves usually happen at the open. I don't feel I have enough experience with forex yet to know whether it's good enough to say "I'm going to trade 1 lot with a stop loss of 20 pips, that's $200 at risk and thus fits my profile of not risking more than 2% of a $10,000 account" - or should one think of it more like options, and that the bulk of the margin requirement for the lot is the risk factor, even with smaller stop losses set? (i.e., if it costs $2,000 to open the position margin-wise, the account should be $100,000)

Also for accounts that are at $20-30k - is it safe to be trading 4-5 lots then on an intraday basis? Or should that be the grounds for trading 2 lots?
  • #44
  • Feb 20, 2012 9:39am Feb 20, 2012 9:39am
Quoting forexfella
When assessing your risk in a trade, is it safe to plan it based on the stop loss? Or are there multiple times when the market will simply move very quickly against you and the stop loss means nothing? In stocks and most futures, these kind of moves usually happen at the open. I don't feel I have enough experience with forex yet to know whether it's good enough to say "I'm going to trade 1 lot with a stop loss of 20 pips, that's $200 at risk and thus fits my profile of not risking more than 2% of a $10,000 account"
this is how i work out all trades and i believe it is how most work out there risk per trade

its rare that there will be a big move which will not trigger your stop at the level it is at. The only time this might possibly happen is around high impact news announcements which i don't trade around anyway.
  • #45
  • Mar 1, 2012 7:14am Mar 1, 2012 7:14am
This thread is only 3 page long and there are so many wrong assumptions!
I don't know if such a system may exist or not. Yet I would never reject an idea based on guts feeling and wrong assumptions.

- Wrong assumption #1 1 pip per day means 1 pip TP.
If you close at +10 you also have your +1. It doesn't go against the idea of letting the profit run. Of course better to state "at least 1pip per day".
Say you're up +15 after a sudden move in your direction, trail the SL to spread + 3 (2 pip slippage security, plus your 1 pip target). Trail your stop 1 pip every day. Now you've your target profit without preventing the trade to grow.

- Wrong assumption #2 You must do this every day.
It has never been said you couldn't do 1 pip per day in average instead. Moreover no system is 100% full proof, some days you won't hit the goal. Just accept it instead of revenging by doubling, tripling, etc the lot size every next day. This method is clearly dangerous enough.

- Wrong assumption #3 trading this way implies that you don't know what you're doing.
You can look at the market as a combination of a trend + cyclic moves + noise. Everybody using a MA tries to smooth out this noise. This method seems (my assumption here ;-) ) to trade the noise. Which requires you know there is noise to trade.

- Wrong assumption #4 trading this way implies that you don't take care of the market (trend direction, S/R...)
Nothing in trading the noise imposes you to enter at random price or at random time.

- Wrong assumption #5 trading this way implies that you must trade a near 0 spread pair.
Obviously to go in the green your position must first overcome the spread, but since you're trading the noise isn't it better to select a very noisy pair instead?
The spread is yet to be kept in mind for sure. Please note I'm not advocating you should trade GBP/SEK...

- Wrong assumption #6 trading this way implies that you use a huge leverage (therefore huge risks).
Here is the original poster wrong assumption! Trading the noise is just another way to trade not to become a millionaire next week.

- Wrong assumption #7 This method trades the noise
(my own wrong assumption) Not necessarily. One can also trade the very long cycles by waiting a losing position to come back in the green. Of course, better to be in the direction of the swap . This method requires that you take profit at one pip less than the drawdown the position has undergone. I leave the demonstration as an exercise to the reader.

- Wrong assumption #8 the risk is unbounded (counter trend position, never coming back)
Nothing prevents the system to use some sort of hedging. There are such systems based on a basket of pairs (ATR-weighted cyclic pairs hedging). Note that they don't trade the noise but the fact that correlated pairs do decorrelate from time to time (spread trading).

- Wrong assumption #9 This is over trading
Just read the point #1, the position may be kept open for weeks with no need to open any new one.

<quote>there is no 1 pip a day system. Find an EDGE!</quote>
Thanks for stating it, but can you prove it? I mean mathematically demonstrate it. Knowing what a Poisson distribution is may also be some sort of edge.

<quote>But to me, it's silly. 20K account to win 50 dollars a day?</quote>
Hmm let me do the maths. $50/day, 20 session days per month in average, that's $1000/month. 12 months per year, we get $12000 at end of year from a $20K account. That's +60% a year. IMHO that's quite decent for a silly method!

What about been constructive instead? Either prove such a system cannot be made. Here the story ends. Too bad for stuborn people who keep trying to square the circle; (market needs losers)
Or build one even if isn't profitable enough to actually use it. Just for the fun of showing it is indeed possible. And certainly learning a lot in the process.
Or demonstrate that it is easier to find one which can only be better in average... Because in the end I fully agree with AlastorFate: you can do much better with less risk ;-)

Just to say that an idea shall not be rejected just because it is more conventional to reject it.
No greed. No fear. Just maths.
  • #46
  • Mar 1, 2012 8:46am Mar 1, 2012 8:46am
won't the spread be a factor in this type of trading
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #47
  • Mar 1, 2012 9:49am Mar 1, 2012 9:49am
I'd be interested in seeing if we could make an EA that tries to accomplish this 1pip a day/average per day idea. With the amount of volatility or 'noise' in the market, I'm sure that at least at key times of the trading day that this idea may just work out, a very low win size but a very high win rate. Below I've tried to make a EA proposal that would exploit market noise for at least a pip (hopefully of course) and at the same attempt to exploit strong moves to "fatten up for the inevitable winter periods".

If any coder is up to it, I think this may be a good start to an EA:

User input:

1. Entry Signal Position Size = x % risk on available equity
2. Pyramid Add? = Yes/No
3. Add Pyramid Position when prior entry signal trade goes = x pips in positive
4. If add Pyramid position move Entry Signal Postion = x pips in positive
5. Pyramid Position size = x % of signal position size SL moved in positive(so risk of added position is contained within SL of prior entry signal position)
6. SL1 = x % of ATR5 (0 if using SL2)
7. SL2 = x pips (0 if using SL1)
8. TP = x pips (0 if none)
9. Trailing Stop = x pips
10. Move to BE+1 entry signal trades and pyramid trades when = x pips in positive

System:

1. Apply to 15min chart

2. Entries:
a. ATR 5period on the 15min above 10pip
bi. Long: 4 bars of a bottom fractal have formed (last bar on the potential fractal will indeed be open to repainting the whole fractal)
bii. Short: 4 bars of a top fractal have formed
c. Pyramid position added once 1st trade goes x pips positive
d. Also enter new normal size trades further Long/Short signals
d. EA "keeps running", eg. long entered, then long pyramid entered, short signal, short entered, and all previous long trades are subject to predefined exit rules and so are kept open. This way smaller potential trades can be made which themselves are subject to the same exit rules and BE condition

4. Exits:
a. TP ? pips
b. Trailing Stop ? pips
c. SL ? pips
d. BE once trade goes ? pips in positive

5. Trade Management:
a. Position Size = ?% risk of account balance
b. Pyramid Entry = once original trades goes ?pips in positive
c. (Pyramid Position SL must be equal to the size of moved SL in positive of first trade eg. First trade up 15pips, pyramid position added with SL=5pip and first trade SL moved to +5pip so pyramid risk is contained in positive value SL)
c. Pyramid Size = ? fraction of original trade

Thought this up on the fly and it's pretty late here so I hope it makes sense.

Any one interested in seeing this in EA?
  • #48
  • Mar 1, 2012 9:59am Mar 1, 2012 9:59am
Quoting PipMeUp
This thread is only 3 page long and there are so many wrong assumptions!
I don't know if such a system may exist or not. Yet I would never reject an idea based on guts feeling and wrong assumptions.

- Wrong assumption #1 1 pip per day means 1 pip TP.
If you close at +10 you also have your +1. It doesn't go against the idea of letting the profit run. Of course better to state "at least 1pip per day".
Say you're up +15 after a sudden move in your direction, trail the SL to spread + 3 (2 pip slippage security, plus your 1 pip target). Trail your stop 1 pip every day. Now you've your target profit without preventing the trade to grow.

- Wrong assumption #2 You must do this every day.
It has never been said you couldn't do 1 pip per day in average instead. Moreover no system is 100% full proof, some days you won't hit the goal. Just accept it instead of revenging by doubling, tripling, etc the lot size every next day. This method is clearly dangerous enough.

- Wrong assumption #3 trading this way implies that you don't know what you're doing.
You can look at the market as a combination of a trend + cyclic moves + noise. Everybody using a MA tries to smooth out this noise. This method seems (my assumption here ;-) ) to trade the noise. Which requires you know there is noise to trade.

- Wrong assumption #4 trading this way implies that you don't take care of the market (trend direction, S/R...)
Nothing in trading the noise imposes you to enter at random price or at random time.

- Wrong assumption #5 trading this way implies that you must trade a near 0 spread pair.
Obviously to go in the green your position must first overcome the spread, but since you're trading the noise isn't it better to select a very noisy pair instead?
The spread is yet to be kept in mind for sure. Please note I'm not advocating you should trade GBP/SEK...

- Wrong assumption #6 trading this way implies that you use a huge leverage (therefore huge risks).
Here is the original poster wrong assumption! Trading the noise is just another way to trade not to become a millionaire next week.

- Wrong assumption #7 This method trades the noise
(my own wrong assumption) Not necessarily. One can also trade the very long cycles by waiting a losing position to come back in the green. Of course, better to be in the direction of the swap . This method requires that you take profit at one pip less than the drawdown the position has undergone. I leave the demonstration as an exercise to the reader.

- Wrong assumption #8 the risk is unbounded (counter trend position, never coming back)
Nothing prevents the system to use some sort of hedging. There are such systems based on a basket of pairs (ATR-weighted cyclic pairs hedging). Note that they don't trade the noise but the fact that correlated pairs do decorrelate from time to time (spread trading).

- Wrong assumption #9 This is over trading
Just read the point #1, the position may be kept open for weeks with no need to open any new one.

<quote>there is no 1 pip a day system. Find an EDGE!</quote>
Thanks for stating it, but can you prove it? I mean mathematically demonstrate it. Knowing what a Poisson distribution is may also be some sort of edge.

<quote>But to me, it's silly. 20K account to win 50 dollars a day?</quote>
Hmm let me do the maths. $50/day, 20 session days per month in average, that's $1000/month. 12 months per year, we get $12000 at end of year from a $20K account. That's +60% a year. IMHO that's quite decent for a silly method!

What about been constructive instead? Either prove such a system cannot be made. Here the story ends. Too bad for stuborn people who keep trying to square the circle; (market needs losers)
Or build one even if isn't profitable enough to actually use it. Just for the fun of showing it is indeed possible. And certainly learning a lot in the process.
Or demonstrate that it is easier to find one which can only be better in average... Because in the end I fully agree with AlastorFate: you can do much better with less risk ;-)

Just to say that an idea shall not be rejected just because it is more conventional to reject it.
wrong assumption number 10

You have a clue what you are talking about
  • #49
  • Mar 1, 2012 6:05pm Mar 1, 2012 6:05pm
Quoting sparky28
this is how i work out all trades and i believe it is how most work out there risk per trade

its rare that there will be a big move which will not trigger your stop at the level it is at. The only time this might possibly happen is around high impact news announcements which i don't trade around anyway.
Thanks for the feedback, that's what I was looking for. (in the meantime I've gotten a lot more experience at various times so I feel a lot more comfortable with the way it moves)
  • #50
  • Mar 6, 2012 6:57am Mar 6, 2012 6:57am
Quoting markmc27
wrong assumption number 10

You have a clue what you are talking about
And you fell so easily in the trap by throwing an a priori with no explanations.
I expected more flame and destruction against my post yet...[disappointed]

Technically it is not impossible to achieve. For instance, you take a cross of very correlated currencies (like AUD/NZD), so they range. Fund your account with $600K. Go in the direction of the carry over. Your risk is more or less 2000pips (picking in the middle). Wait 8 years. You are at BE (or broke!). Now, you can start getting $3000 per month out of your account...

What it's stupid?! I said *technically*!
No greed. No fear. Just maths.
  • #51
  • Mar 7, 2012 12:55am Mar 7, 2012 12:55am
PipMeUp, you mean a trade like: Long NZDUSD Long AUDNZD simultaneously and wait for one to go black? +be able to take paper losses on the shitty trade?
  • #52
  • Mar 7, 2012 10:28am Mar 7, 2012 10:28am
Quoting yankeewh1te
PipMeUp, you mean a trade like: Long NZDUSD Long AUDNZD simultaneously and wait for one to go black? +be able to take paper losses on the shitty trade?
No that's not what I meant. But it is not important. My first post was to point out that people reject any idea based on beliefs rather than pragmatic approch.

All wrote the equivalent of "it's well known impossible (I read it on the Net/my brother in law told me/I'm sure that it isn't therefore it isn't....)", none explained why it isn't possible. So I gave a counter-example making it possible. Yet this example was just given as an absurd demonstration. Would you have $600K would you risk them for $3K per month?? That's 6% per year before tax, any bank can offer the equivalent for no risk. It's like building your own power plant to light your bathroom. It is possible.... just plain non-sense.

A more constructive way would have been to list the scenarios and reject them one by one.

Let's destroy the "TP=1pip" strategy for instance. That's the easiest to kill.
The idea is entering the market with a certain SL and TP=1pip. Let R be your risk. R=SL+spread. As long as you're in the red you can't close the position because a single loser cancels R winners. You cannot afford accumulating the losses. You can only wait. The expectancy of this system is E = p - R(1-p), where p is the probability of success. You immediately see that:

 

  1. This system works if the risk is less than p/(1-p). If your probability of success is 50%, your risk must not be more than 1pip. With a 2 pips spread, your SL needs be negative!
  2. The probability you must have for a given risk is R/(1+R). So if you accept a 30 pip risk (1 loser destroys a full month of profit) you must have a success ratio of 95.23% to ONLY breakeven!
  3. With a probability of 99.9% (God came on Earth to teach you trading) and a risk of 3 pips (SL=1, spread=2), your average return is 0.999 - 3 * (1 - 0.999) = 0.996 pip. You don't even reach the 1pip target!

No greed. No fear. Just maths.
  • #53
  • Mar 7, 2012 9:46pm Mar 7, 2012 9:46pm
Quoting PipMeUp

A more constructive way would have been to list the scenarios and reject them one by one.
You sound like you're having an argument with yourself there Pip, but a gold star for effort!

It seems like an unnecessarily long-winded way to reach the same obvious conclusion, some things are just patently obvious! Were you bored or something?


Next: Walking across a busy freeway with your eyes shut......
  • #54
  • Mar 7, 2012 10:14pm Mar 7, 2012 10:14pm
Quoting PipMeUp
A more constructive way would have been to list the scenarios and reject them one by one.
so it's not that you don't like the facts, you just reject them because you don't like the format it was presented?

if people just use a little common sense then they can understand and accept the answers given. no one needs to go all rocket scientist just to explain that the thread's question / theme is dumb and the entire premise simply boils down to "i want pips and i don't want to lose".

you've imagined a whole story and argument against something that doesn't exist. you rally against assumptions, while making a whole list of your own. i smell a troll, or someone who just talks a big talk without the simple reasoning skills to back it up.

i have a feeling you might be a university student.... taught to learn how to argue against something but not taught to actually think.

anyways, boring. bring on some more walls of text over a silly initial premise. here's a tip : some things just aren't worth debating. this thread being one of them.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #55
  • Mar 7, 2012 11:44pm Mar 7, 2012 11:44pm
to be honest its really a practical thought and there is nothing harm to trade it...

as far as 1 pip is concern...it is very much possible.
Trade responsiblypatience is the key/Swing trader
  • #56
  • Mar 8, 2012 12:40am Mar 8, 2012 12:40am
Has anyone even tried to make an EA that would aim for this?
  • #57
  • Mar 9, 2012 11:04pm Mar 9, 2012 11:04pm
Quoting zek132
I have a easy way. Take a trade with no SL, long if you flip the coin Heads, and Short if you flip tails, and take profit at 1 pip. This will give you 1 pip most of the days. On the days that you don't hit 1pip profit, trade double the size and if that fails, next day 3x the size, eventually you will cover the deficit of pips and you can reduce the size of the trade to the original amount. There you go...
  • #58
  • Mar 9, 2012 11:45pm Mar 9, 2012 11:45pm
I can get u that 1 pip every day
Trade responsiblypatience is the key/Swing trader
  • #59
  • Mar 10, 2012 12:02am Mar 10, 2012 12:02am
why everyday? why not every hour? every 5min? every 1min? etc
why do you enter? these are questions you need to answer. i have some serious scalper friends who do this on equities and futures...avg about 300 rt's a day. it can be done...but you need to practice, know when to push it, when to hold, scale-in, etc.
for those who keep mentioning spread...get off the mt4 brokers and your life is a bit easier. heck, just trade index futures.
  • #60
  • Edited 2:46am Mar 10, 2012 2:31am | Edited 2:46am
Yeah it's pretty simple. Learn how to trade, beat the spread and close the trade.

Why do you need five accounts? More risk more loss.
Take all the capital and put it in one or two accounts.

To make ONE pip a day on five accounts you actually are asking how to make 5 pips a day and assuming you are not executing all the trades at the same time you have to enter and exit at some less favorable times.

If you really want to do this> take one account and trade the asian session.
Quoting Ged
Noobs, go away.

For pro's. Do you know the way how to earn 1 pip everyday trading on forex?
I trade 3 lots at once. That's 30$ per trade. 20 days = 600$. On 5 accounts that's enough for me (3000$). That's all i want. Do you know the way how could i achieve this?
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