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  • #3,561
  • Jan 7, 2012 7:02am Jan 7, 2012 7:02am
Quoting tpaulbeaumon
Very profound ILP

400pips in a 200 pip range over the xmas week is amazing trading 8) Why close yesterday prior to your supports though?
I also traded gbp. Was short the whole week.
And indeed, i went out before nfp. I could not be at my computer and don't like the volatility. But i try not to think in terms of 'could have', it is what it is.
Gann also left positions to reenter at a later time.
  • #3,562
  • Jan 7, 2012 7:06am Jan 7, 2012 7:06am
Quoting tpaulbeaumon
ILP - Ive just seen youre in Holland, and realised there may have been some misunderstanding here:






I meant 3 month old child, having 'left it in' 12 months ago! :$ Some coarse English humour
No misunderstanding, i know what you meant. :-)
  • #3,563
  • Jan 7, 2012 7:07am Jan 7, 2012 7:07am
bumapatria:

How on EARTH did you manage to post over 7 000 posts since August 2011??? That has GOT to be a record!!! LOL!!! My usual 'hangout' is BabyPips and believe me I've posted my 'ar*e' off since 2007 and even although I've got the highest post count (second only to one of the Admins) I'm ALMOST on 4 000 posts!!! LOL!!! Do you have time to trade or sleep if you don't mind my asking??? LOL!!!

Anyway: please believe me that it is NOT my intention to 'hijack' this thread at all. It's just that I noticed that somebody mentioned Wilder's 'Delta Phenomenon' earlier on in this thread and I had some experience with it some years back (but didn't 'stick with it' long enough to give it a sort of 'fighting chance'). But not too long ago I 'discovered' Wilder's other work (book) called 'The Adam Theory of Markets' and I'm currently 'messing about' with that and so far so good (although as I've noted: 'one good trade does not a good trading system make').

Here is a link to my latest post HERE on Forex Factory on the subject:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...09#post5275209

What I'm saying really is that a few years ago if I saw a thread with the same or a similar title to that of THIS thread I wouldn't even have bothered to look at it. But you know what??? My 'stance' on this type of stuff has definitely changed let me tell you and I think that anybody that simply dismisses this type of stuff out of hand and considers this type of stuff to be 'mumbo jumbo' is doing themselves a disservice. Now that doesn't mean I'm going to rush out every day to buy some or the other magazine or newspaper to read my horoscope!!! LOL!!! But there definitely is 'something' to this stuff.

Just adding some value (I hope anyway) to this thread for what it's worth.

Regards,

Dale.
  • #3,564
  • Jan 7, 2012 8:01am Jan 7, 2012 8:01am
Quoting Ilovepippin
I also traded gbp. Was short the whole week.
And indeed, i went out before nfp. I could not be at my computer and don't like the volatility. But i try not to think in terms of 'could have', it is what it is.
Gann also left positions to reenter at a later time.
hey ILP, i have to honestly say i am good at entries but exits i can freak at times. Do you try to hold a position for as long as that aspect is in certain positions and effecting the momentum still and wait for an opposing aspect or opposing cycle to exit? Do you use time as an exit or price? since Gann said that price is equivalent to time that means time could be an exit as well .. just wondering

thanks in advance
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #3,565
  • Jan 7, 2012 8:03am Jan 7, 2012 8:03am
Quoting fintrans
bumapatria:

How on EARTH did you manage to post over 7 000 posts since August 2011??? That has GOT to be a record!!! LOL!!! My usual 'hangout' is BabyPips and believe me I've posted my 'ar*e' off since 2007 and even although I've got the highest post count (second only to one of the Admins) I'm ALMOST on 4 000 posts!!! LOL!!! Do you have time to trade or sleep if you don't mind my asking??? LOL!!!

Anyway: please believe me that it is NOT my intention to 'hijack' this thread at all. It's just that I noticed that somebody mentioned...
Hi Dale,

Delta works but it is like Elliott. You need to keep a correct count. It is not astro related in the sense that you need to read your horoscope everyday. You can just follow the price without looking up the heavens.
Kind of like the tides, you know when high water comes without looking at the moon.
My 10cents, the horoscopes in the paper are a bunch of mumbo jumbo and there is absolutely no relation to what goes on in here.
Astrology is the oldest science in the world, nowadays they don't want to call it a science anymore and that does our ancestors a great disservice.

I used Delta for a while, handplotted the charts on metatrader. Wilders has software which is of course at a steep price. However, like any system, there are times that you are just uncertain, even if you use it in addition to other techniques like Elliott Wave. It takes a lot of time, but it helps if you do it right.
  • #3,566
  • Jan 7, 2012 8:13am Jan 7, 2012 8:13am
Quoting bumapatria
hey ILP, i have to honestly say i am good at entries but exits i can freak at times. Do you try to hold a position for as long as that aspect is in certain positions and effecting the momentum still and wait for an opposing aspect or opposing cycle to exit? Do you use time as an exit or price? since Gann said that price is equivalent to time that means time could be an exit as well .. just wondering

thanks in advance
Buma,

There is a big difference in what Gann did and what we are doing.
Gann used futures, they trend much longer and are bound to seasons. We are trading forex which is much more complex.
Our trading rules should therefore be different.
Lets say I enter a short, you take your risk and prepare to lose it.
If the trade goes against you at first you hold on and walk away, you already took the risk when you entered and you uses sound money management.
If my stop holds, and I am still in it, I just got a better price and short some more. When the trade goes your way, you start eliminating risk. Meaning you move your stops according to the trade. I use elliott wave rules for that.
The exit is tricky. There are many exit rules, but I found that taking fixed pips works just as good as anything else. So 100 or 200 pips whatever and exit.

Days like yesterday at 8:30 we were close to a natural support and NFP was due. I had to leave the computer so I closed out. I did that because I did not see a good level to move my stop to to protect my profit. So, I closed out was happy and moved on. If the price retracted I would have reentered short. and kept my profit. The markets are here to stay. You live to trade another day. There thats my motto. I have traded for 4 years now, never lost an account. Am still profitable. I aim for small profits in terms of percentage and capital protection should be first priority.
  • #3,567
  • Jan 7, 2012 8:45am Jan 7, 2012 8:45am
Quoting Ilovepippin
Buma,

There is a big difference in what Gann did and what we are doing.
Gann used futures, they trend much longer and are bound to seasons. We are trading forex which is much more complex.
Our trading rules should therefore be different.
Lets say I enter a short, you take your risk and prepare to lose it.
If the trade goes against you at first you hold on and walk away, you already took the risk when you entered and you uses sound money management.
If my stop holds, and I am still in it, I just got a better price and short some more. When the...
yeah forex is one hell of a "unique" market. fixed pips... i never thoguht of that but i like the principle trade antoher day and make profit - after all all that matters if you come out profitable right? Capital protection is a must. One thing i do is use absorption with a highly profitable trade sometimes iwth a tad bit of leverage. say you get the top on with a short, price bottomed and u got a cycle to go long, and u got divergence, etc etc for xample, and you go long and hold that short and now you have locked pips with same lot sizes. that locks profit of pips and price moves up or down ur profit is locked. keep that locked as long as possible (i have broker with no swaps and comissions, and overnight costs). Its either that or you think the trend mgiht hold out longer use a smaller lot size to minimize "paper loss" or virtual loss from a retracement with a long and if price does go down, you wont have locked profit, just minimized profit. also with this try to keep it as long as possible. IT allos me to trade something else say GBPusd or some other pair or something.. for a swing with a higher leverage as well than usual perhaps 1:3 as my usual is 1:1 - 1:2. if you lose that trade you got the lock to absorb the loss. or you can scalp as long as that lock holds..



just an idea to share - since you gave me somethign valuable, i decide to give something good of mine as well
Have I got something on my face, SOLDIER?
  • #3,568
  • Jan 7, 2012 2:13pm Jan 7, 2012 2:13pm
Quoting fintrans
bumapatria:

How on EARTH did you manage to post over 7 000 posts since August 2011??? That has GOT to be a record!!! LOL!!! My usual 'hangout' is BabyPips and believe me I've posted my 'ar*e' off since 2007 and even although I've got the highest post count (second only to one of the Admins) I'm ALMOST on 4 000 posts!!! LOL!!! Do you have time to trade or sleep if you don't mind my asking??? LOL!!!

Anyway: please believe me that it is NOT my intention to 'hijack' this thread at all. It's just that I noticed that somebody mentioned Wilder's...
Thanks for sharing the ebook. I'd used Delta before but never made the commitment to buy that Adam book. Now I'd got a chance to read it and realised that it's exactly the same that I've been debating/arguing with a few other fellow traders via IM online last year. Not 'Surrender', but follow and let go......

Now that might be a little bit of massage to my ego .... I've arrived, if only philosophically (let go, let go.....)
  • #3,569
  • Jan 8, 2012 1:46am Jan 8, 2012 1:46am
Good morning.

Quoting Oshawa
Thanks for sharing the ebook. I'd used Delta before but never made the commitment to buy that Adam book. Now I'd got a chance to read it and realised that it's exactly the same that I've been debating/arguing with a few other fellow traders via IM online last year. Not 'Surrender', but follow and let go......

Now that might be a little bit of massage to my ego .... I've arrived, if only philosophically (let go, let go.....)
It's my pleasure. I was just contributing here because I felt that stuff like Adam Theory and The Delta Phenomenon (well more so The Delta Phenomenon) sort of 'fitted in well' with the topic of this thread and was complimentary to the topic of this thread.

Adam Theory: I'm just 'messing about' with it at the moment although it has resulted in one of the simplest, low maintenance, and profitable FOREX trades ever (and I don't trade FOREX and wasn't about to go 'testing an unknown' on something like the Dow or the DAX given the $ / € value for point movement)!!! LOL!!!

But as I noted: even if you forget about Adam Theory for a minute that book has some of the most valuable insights in it especially for new traders. Even for experienced traders!!! I've been at this 'lark' for just over six years now. I call myself a trend trader and yet it only occurred to me, after reading the book, that most times I'm sitting 'out' WATCHING a trend and waiting for the reversal of such trend before getting 'in'!!! And I wasn't even aware that I was doing it. That book just 'spoke' to me I guess. Alright: I have a 'Wilder bias'. The point is that any other author could have (and has) noted the sames things just in a different way and I probably wouldn't (didn't???) have 'taken heed'.

Anyway: I guess I'm NOW getting off the topic of this thread. So I'll now 'bow out gracefully'.

Keep going everyone and good and highly profitable trading always.

Regards,

Dale.
  • #3,570
  • Edited 7:03am Jan 8, 2012 2:01am | Edited 7:03am
Quoting Ilovepippin
Hi Dale,

Delta works but it is like Elliott. You need to keep a correct count. It is not astro related in the sense that you need to read your horoscope everyday. You can just follow the price without looking up the heavens.
Kind of like the tides, you know when high water comes without looking at the moon.
My 10cents, the horoscopes in the paper are a bunch of mumbo jumbo and there is absolutely no relation to what goes on in here.
Astrology is the oldest science in the world, nowadays they don't want to call it a science anymore and that does...
Sorry: before 'bowing out gracefully' from this thread I didn't realise that you'd replied to me. Thank you for that. You make some fine points. As I said: I never REALLY gave Delta a 'fighting chance'. 'Solving' Delta manually is time consuming to say the least and, well, I soon gave up especially seeing as I was already 'bound' to Wilder's Swing Index System by that stage if I remember correctly. But I must be honest and say that BECAUSE of Delta I DO normally watch out for New Moon and there is NO doubt in my mind that market behaviour or market sentiment definitely does undergo some type of change on or around every Full Moon. It's just not 'exact' enough for someone like me to trade around and, well, Delta is just a 'tad' 'over my head' to be honest. Sometimes: my solving Delta (always only for the Dow) was 'spot on' while other times it made no sense. Now we ALL know that NO trading system or methodology is correct 100% of the time. The problem with Delta is that the potential losses if 'wrong', given how far away your stop and reverse points would be placed on occasion, could be disastrous. Either that or you'd need a VERY large account in order to manage risk and take the inevitable Delta losses from time to time!!! LOL!!!

And I don't know if it needs mentioning: but I was only joking about horoscopes!!! LOL!!!

Thanks for the input.

Regards,

Dale.
  • #3,571
  • Jan 8, 2012 5:38am Jan 8, 2012 5:38am
fintrans,

i doubt that you have studied the Delta cycles or even read the Wilder book: The reality is that at new moon dates nothing important happens.

Sixer
  • #3,572
  • Edited 6:10am Jan 8, 2012 5:53am | Edited 6:10am
Oh.

Quoting Sixer
fintrans,

i doubt that you have studied the Delta cycles or even read the Wilder book: The reality is that at new moon dates nothing important happens.

Sixer
So sorry. My mistake. "... each coloured line is on the date of each FULL MOON" (not NEW MOON i.e. MY MISTAKE) and "Markets repeat directly or inversely every four lunar months." - Part II, THE MOMENT OF TRUTH, Page 61 of The Delta Phenomenon. Want me to take a photograph and send it to you???

Out of respect for the others on this thread: I'm not going to say to you what I want to say I'll tell you. Here's a hint though: "who the FU*K do you think YOU are making an assumption like that and getting personal with me"??? Capiche???

What possible OTHER reason could I have for posting here???

It's a REAL pity (and your 'LUCK') that you don't live somewhere near me let me tell you. Then again: maybe you're not that 'LUCKY' and DO live somewhere near me. How do I know. My contact details are all over the Internet so I'm easy to find. Why don't you 'pop around. I'll show you the book and then we can 'square off'. How about that???

Regards,

Dale.
  • #3,573
  • Jan 8, 2012 6:34am Jan 8, 2012 6:34am
Delta cycles work but they arent all that accurate, well sometimes they are sometimes they are not, since its only really an average of turning points accumulated for any of their cycles. That being said they are definitely very hard for day traders but very handy tool for mid term long term swing traders as they were designed for. Very helpful when you have a good idea as to when you should begin accumulating and pyramiding
"Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do"
  • #3,574
  • Edited 7:25am Jan 8, 2012 7:10am | Edited 7:25am
Hi.

Quoting OrionsWay
Delta cycles work but they arent all that accurate, well sometimes they are sometimes they are not, since its only really an average of turning points accumulated for any of their cycles. That being said they are definitely very hard for day traders but very handy tool for mid term long term swing traders as they were designed for. Very helpful when you have a good idea as to when you should begin accumulating and pyramiding
Well said or well put. That's why I happened to mention that The Delta Phenomenon was a bit too 'open ended' for my personal liking anyway.

That being said: I didn't post on this thread to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of Wilder's Delta Phenomenon. I just saw the title of the thread and thought it worth mentioning that certain 'non scientific' or 'non mathematical approaches' should not be simply discounted 'out of hand' (which is what I was 'guilty' of doing a while back). But look where that ended up.

Regards,

Dale.
  • #3,575
  • Jan 8, 2012 7:22am Jan 8, 2012 7:22am
To Sixer:

I've edited (corrected) my post that appeared to offend you so much.

So here's the deal:

Given that this little 'altercation' has nothing at all to do with the content of this thread and achieves nothing: you delete your derogatory and defamatory post and I'll delete my initial reply to that post as well as this one and we'll go our separate ways and no harm done.

Your call.

If this is not acceptable: somebody sometime is going to teach you some manners and what the meaning of the word 'courtesy' is.

All you had to do was correct me ('Full Moon' vs. 'New Moon'). That's all that was required.

And by the way: I was posting about The Delta Phenomenon on these very forums at or around the time you joined in 2008. So next time you decide to get 'smart': do your 'due diligence' first.

Anyway: if this offer is not acceptable to you well, then, I guess, these posts will hang around here wasting space and everybody else's time for time and all eternity (and just remember that you only have 24-hours to edit or delete your posts if the post is not your first post on a thread so 'the clock is ticking').

Regards,

Dale.
  • #3,576
  • Jan 8, 2012 7:25am Jan 8, 2012 7:25am
Quoting fintrans
Hi.



Well said or well put. That's why I happened to mention that The Delta Phenomenon was a bit too 'open ended' for my personal liking anyway.

That being said: I didn't post on this thread to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of Wilder's Delta Phenomenon. I just saw the title of the thread and thought it worth mentioning that certain 'non scientific' or 'non mathematical equations' should not be simply discounted 'out of hand'. But look where that ended up.

Regards,

Dale.
Well it is a function of our solar system, even if tiny aspect of it. tides are a great timing function and are a constant. the division of them cycles into average points of market turns is the basis of the delta, BUT in the end all functions no matter what you apply still ends up with supply and demand. They know everything under the sun and fade most always the initiation of most everything the mind can imagine, This is why somethings work sometimes and others another. That in its self would be a great oscillator, tracking the action reaction of different systems ppl use LOL
"Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do"
  • #3,577
  • Jan 8, 2012 7:37am Jan 8, 2012 7:37am
Quoting OrionsWay
That in its self would be a great oscillator, tracking the action reaction of different systems ppl use LOL
No kidding!!! LOL!!!

Actually (and this I realise is WAY off topic): but some study or the other even revealed that TWITTER turned out to be an 'indicator' of market sentiment during the sub-prime crisis!!! LOL!!! Unfortunately: because the study was only concluded a year or two later (only last year if memory serves me correctly) it sort of 'lagged' a bit!!! LOL!!!

Regards,

Dale.
  • #3,578
  • Jan 8, 2012 8:47am Jan 8, 2012 8:47am
Quoting fintrans

. I call myself a trend trader and yet it only occurred to me, after reading the book, that most times I'm sitting 'out' WATCHING a trend and waiting for the reversal of such trend before getting 'in'!!! And I wasn't even aware that I was doing it.
In here lies great wisdom!
I found myself doing the same when I was trading with technical and EW.
That's why I took up cycle trading.

Gann has very simple tools for that, for one the 1x1, 1x2 etc lines.
Anyway, its better to look for clues that can confirm the trend instead of clues that may turn the trend. Way more profitable at least.
  • #3,579
  • Jan 8, 2012 9:42am Jan 8, 2012 9:42am
Quoting fintrans
Good morning.

I call myself a trend trader and yet it only occurred to me, after reading the book, that most times I'm sitting 'out' WATCHING a trend and waiting for the reversal of such trend before getting 'in'!!! And I wasn't even aware that I was doing it. That book just 'spoke' to me I guess. Alright: I have a 'Wilder bias'. The point is that any other author could have (and has) noted the sames things just in a different way and I probably wouldn't (didn't???) have 'taken heed'.
I think many have done and/or perhasp still do the same. I think it's a former pit-trader who once told me that he called that 'trader's disease'.... thinking that the market can't go any higher/lower and so it's our natural impulse to want to get in the next leg and so try picking tops/bottoms.

Yes, what is in the Adam book is not new. I found Wilder had the tendency (also in the Delta book) to state the obvious in a repetive but simple way, in an attempt to really drive home the message. However, knowing is not the same as doing (the same old, same old...). What I think a trader needs is the discipline to be disciplined
  • #3,580
  • Jan 8, 2012 11:02am Jan 8, 2012 11:02am
fintrans,


you should really read the Wilder book again – tell me any “full moon” date (vertical lines) of the EURUSD at which we have had a turning point. Choose any time frame you want:


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...eurusdd61.gif/


Btw, the “Adam Projection” is a simple mirroring of former prices only. It will work perfectly in trending markets and fail in sideway patterns. I can`t recognize any power in this tool.


Sixer
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