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Do you guys find that forex trading sucks?

  • #261
  • Dec 22, 2011 8:24am Dec 22, 2011 8:24am
I actually think that USD/CHF FX SPOT chart is more attractive to trade than the USD/CHF futures.
  • #262
  • Dec 22, 2011 8:25am Dec 22, 2011 8:25am
Quoting erock
Take a look at the attachments. You have spot forex on top and futures contracts on the bottom. This is for swiss / usd.

They in complete opposite directions, comparison between futures contracts and spot forex. Do you see my point, More volatility, wilder swings, typically less of a trading pattern.

Attachment

Attachment

Spot fx is Usd/Chf not Chf/Usd It's all in how it's quoted.
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  • #263
  • Dec 22, 2011 8:42am Dec 22, 2011 8:42am
Quoting TheDirtySerb
No actually those two charts are in the same direction. Think about it. Top chart is USD, bottom chart is CHF against dollar. But you are correct, swings are wilder. Forex isnt for everyone, if Futures and equities work for you stick with it, nothing to be ashamed of. Honestly, I dont have 100K to put into futures, if I did I would trade it. FX is riskier, but can more more rewarding than futures and equities combined. I think that's what appeals to some many average people, including me. Best of luck to you.
May be some day I'll revisit FX, as of now I think futures and equities are better suited for me. If I do trade FX it will be a different strategy and very small.
  • #264
  • Dec 22, 2011 8:44am Dec 22, 2011 8:44am
Quoting erock
May be some day I'll revisit FX, as of now I think futures and equities are better suited for me. If I do trade FX it will be a different strategy and very small.
Try starting out just swing trading. The daily charts are crystal clear in what they want to do and where they are headed. Then you don't have to deal with a lot of the intraday 'noise' either.
  • #265
  • Dec 22, 2011 8:49am Dec 22, 2011 8:49am
it depends on your method of trading...
for my means I do find futures (non currency) to be much better. much more liquid (of course depending on the instrument), regulated markets, etc; essentially less b.s. on all levels and rarely any 'surprises'
but I do keep an eye on e/u and a few other pairs for additional daily opportunities.
  • #266
  • Dec 22, 2011 8:57am Dec 22, 2011 8:57am
Quoting erock
May be some day I'll revisit FX, as of now I think futures and equities are better suited for me. If I do trade FX it will be a different strategy and very small.
Good idea and as Venice put it, long-term swing trades of the higher timeframes (d1/w1) and seek out trades with positive swap rates.
  • #267
  • Dec 22, 2011 9:13am Dec 22, 2011 9:13am
Quoting Trotty
Stop pussy footing around and saying what you really mean. I get the feline that you're a whisker away from pawing more scorn on a poster than i've seen before.
dont know what you're on about but i love the way you hiss fit
All systems of divination, like music itself,work through patterns.
  • #268
  • Dec 22, 2011 10:11am Dec 22, 2011 10:11am
Quoting 123456789
hi erock, were you actually screwed yourself up by EURCHF on 6th of september?
ha erock, I see you use swiss france chart, maybe my asumption was correct lol..
actually I saw the futures chart above is the same with the spot fx, it only replaces the wild swings with wild gaps..
anyway just choose your best instrument that suit you erock
if you never give up trading I believe next time you will open a celebrating thread for success with no more whining lol..

happy holiday to all
santa is giving many pips this year
  • #269
  • Dec 22, 2011 10:30am Dec 22, 2011 10:30am
Quoting erock
Take a look at the attachments. You have spot forex on top and futures contracts on the bottom. This is for swiss / usd.

They in complete opposite directions, ...
You've gone too far. Now we know it's a joke.
  • #270
  • Dec 22, 2011 11:12am Dec 22, 2011 11:12am
Quoting erock
May be some day I'll revisit FX, as of now I think futures and equities are better suited for me. If I do trade FX it will be a different strategy and very small.
That's the ticket.

And maybe be a little more honest about it too.

With your harsh comments about FX it can be seen right through that that you lost your shirt trading it. And that is where the problem lies. Not that it doesn't act right.

And when comparing derivative markets it helps to look at apples to apples:

EURUSD to 6EH2 CME futures
  • #271
  • Dec 22, 2011 11:40am Dec 22, 2011 11:40am
Quoting Taigen
No wonder I don't like cats; they're irritating. Just kidding but what's it to you if people want to post their views on a dead market. We're like fisherman on the dock of the bay waiting for the fish run (which will take place in January) having a beer talking about old times, fishing techniques, the one that got away and fish theory. Why not? What are you doing that's so important?

I'm only 14% up on my account this month so far and instead of pissing and moaning about it, I'll join in the conversation if something interests me. Otherwise...
You're absolutely right Taigen, so apologies big time for being such as arse. And to you erock, I hope I did not offend you with my drivel. You have every right to post whatever you wish, that's what so great about forums. I'm sorry forex has not worked out for you. It is more volatile for sure, but worth persevering with because if you can trade forex successfully, you can trade anything. I wish you every success with your trading in the future. Merry Christmas.
  • #272
  • Dec 22, 2011 12:24pm Dec 22, 2011 12:24pm
Quoting erock
Take a look at the attachments. You have spot forex on top and futures contracts on the bottom. This is for swiss / usd.

They in complete opposite directions, comparison between futures contracts and spot forex. Do you see my point, More volatility, wilder swings, typically less of a trading pattern.

Attachment

Attachment
Actually if I take a look at the pip distance of the FOREX chart between lowest low 0,7070 (August 9th 2011) to recent high 0,9550 (December 15th 2011), then I get a pip distance of 2480 pips. For the same time period on your futures chart I take the high which is at around 1.39 and the low at December 15th 2011, which is around 1.05, then I get a pip distance of 3400 pips.

So actually from your example it seems that the futures market is more volatile than the currency market.
  • #273
  • Dec 22, 2011 1:38pm Dec 22, 2011 1:38pm
Quoting SunTrader
I do trade completely discretionary. But timeframe matters if you want to make more than just pips per trade.

Trading lower timeframes increases the decision making and the chances for more errors just like an average driver running with the big dogs in the Indy 500. Sure they can drive, but not at 225mph.

And what kind of strategies are those. The thread author said nothing of timeframe. It is others that made these assertions.
Timeframe does not matter much apart from adjusting your position sizing (to deal with larger stops), which I (perhaps foolishly) thought would be an inherent assumption there.

Trading lower timeframes increases the decision making and the chances for more errors. You are also increasing the chance for profit. If anything you've just highlighted the huge opportunity cost of trading the longer time frames. Risk 1%, trade the daily chart, every trade you make is going to likely take some time to come to fruition (or fail). In that time, you're a lame duck. Risk 1%, trade the 5m chart, most trades you make will probably either fail or make some serious headway in less than a half hour. Wrong? Oh well, you wasted 30 minutes, try again. Wrong on a daily? Welp, you just wasted two weeks.

As for your last point, it had been discussed numerous times in this thread before, but hedge funds don't typically trade shorter term because they can't. Perhaps you can devise a strategy that allows a $2bn fund to just pop a few trades in here and there without running into liquidity issues?
  • #274
  • Dec 22, 2011 3:04pm Dec 22, 2011 3:04pm
Quoting erock
Take a look at the attachments. You have spot forex on top and futures contracts on the bottom. This is for swiss / usd.

They in complete opposite directions, comparison between futures contracts and spot forex. Do you see my point, More volatility, wilder swings, typically less of a trading pattern.

Attachment

Attachment
Currency futures and spot forex move practically tick for tick the same and the charts will look identical.

There are 3 reasons why your charts look different -

Currency futures are typically xxxUSD while the normally normal Swissy quote is USDCHF ie. the inverse of the 6S futures chart.

Some charting packages show only the "pit traded" hours not the full 24H globex data

Currency futures are for delivery on a particular date. When looking at daily data the charting package has to choose some means of joining the quarterly data together into a continuous chart which will result in a gap which doesn't really exist.
  • #275
  • Edited 6:59pm Dec 22, 2011 6:21pm | Edited 6:59pm
I used to believe that there was no money to be made in forex. Until I stopped studying pairs and started studying individual indices. Once you realize what moves the markets then you'll start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Stop chasing entries and wait for your opportunities and the pips will make their way to your account. I'm sure you've all read the article on a traders progression, and of you haven't then please do so.

Once you know you're past that last stage you'll stop worrying about making up for losses and start to see your trades as just another number.

You have no reason to believe me but if you consistently have a mindset that you're going to learn how to trade then it will come with time.

Hell... I'm up 1100 pips in a week and a half on my first live account. Now I know it's only a week, but I have studied demo for a long time..
Learn the basics and stick to them. R:r and MM are the two tools that you need to rely on the most. After all, even after a couple losses, you still want to live to fight another day

Cheers
  • #276
  • Dec 23, 2011 3:42am Dec 23, 2011 3:42am
with anything its all about getting a strategy that works (most of the time!)

Happy xmas & New Year to all
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  • #277
  • Dec 23, 2011 6:04am Dec 23, 2011 6:04am
Have a good break everyone , lets stop the bitching for a few days lol. i've done trading now until new year even though i think their are pips to be made. i had a bad first 3 days trading which is normal but recovered with 850ish pips not the normal 900 + but hey ho happy days. ALL THE BEST EVERYONE
SEE LINE,TRADE LINE..PRICE HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE,,, PRICE WILL GO SOMEWHERE.
  • #278
  • Edited 10:18am Dec 23, 2011 9:59am | Edited 10:18am
who does not use stops? I'll use them again when the market dictates it but lately I've noticed the only time I lose is with a SL only to see the market turn around when I'm out. I've been doing this strategy for about three months now and rarely get out of a trade red anymore. I should count my win/loss ratio but can't it being less than a 20:1 respectively. If the market shifts that will require me to use stops again I will do so but until then I am stop free.

I should add that I don't walk away from the computer too far and that I have alarms set strategically which are emailed to me so I know pretty much know where I'm positioned at all times. If it goes long term, I will put in profit or a zero stop to ensure I stay in the green.
Taigen Profit This Month: na
  • #279
  • Dec 23, 2011 10:15am Dec 23, 2011 10:15am
Quoting Taigen
who does not use stops? I'll use them again when the market dictates it but lately I've noticed the only time I lose is with a SL only to see the market turn around when I'm out. I've been doing this strategy for about three months now and rarely get out of a trade red anymore. I should count my win/loss ratio but can't it being less than a 20:1 respectively. If the market shifts that will require me to use stops again I will do so but until then I am stop free.
Sorry to say this , but if you find that after you set SL and price hits and turns around...then something is wrong with your entry strategy.

SL is must...you will regret it later if you trade SL free.

Just my opinion, i am not claiming or making any statement here that SL is a must.

if you are ok to take huge loss, that's fine, as long as you know you are taking them.
  • #280
  • Dec 23, 2011 10:29am Dec 23, 2011 10:29am
Quoting zamfir
Sorry to say this , but if you find that after you set SL and price hits and turns around...then something is wrong with your entry strategy.

SL is must...you will regret it later if you trade SL free.

Just my opinion, i am not claiming or making any statement here that SL is a must.

if you are ok to take huge loss, that's fine, as long as you know you are taking them.
Yep. I use a worst-case-scenario stop loss... but other then that, most of my orders are closed manually because a close above/below a level is what tells me i'm wrong, not a touch.

Just my way.
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