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Do you guys find that forex trading sucks?

  • #221
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:16pm Dec 21, 2011 1:16pm
Traders forget a pinBar is a 3 bar pattern.

Entering on, not after 3rd bar, is speculating bar will continue in desired direction.
  • #222
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:23pm Dec 21, 2011 1:23pm
100k account and you cant trade in forex successfully ? you could easily pull in 0.10%-0.30% of profit without using any leverage or risk every day,not to mention if your only after 15% return annually ,its a no brainer to me.And you say the futures markets are more stable,still if you makin money someone has to be there on the giving end ? And still you cant be professional in everything you do,so stick to what works best
  • #223
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:30pm Dec 21, 2011 1:30pm
Quoting SunTrader
For every scalper that makes big bucks there are 10, no probably 50 or more, that make it on daily/swing trading basis.

Not a single hedge fund that I know of trades the short timeframes predominently.
Doubt it. In my opinion, the best traders are at least partially discretionary (and if you are not, don't take offense, this is just my personal opinion), and are nimble enough to apply their methodology and knowledge to multiple time frames. That being said, the shorter the time frame, the more opportunities arise, so my hypothesis is that the better traders actually tend toward the smallest comfortable time frame possible. Of course as funds are accumulated and position sizes increase, the time frames would subsequently move out, but that's really neither here nor there.

As for the hedge fund comment, in this thread alone, multiple times, it's been explained why hedge funds don't engage in these types of strategies.
  • #224
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:33pm Dec 21, 2011 1:33pm
We have talked about almost every thing in this thread. What % targets are possible and which ones are not, randomness, statistics, probabilities and more that some of what i even dont understand.

What i think is that whole debate is more focused on NUMBERS and it should be naturally as afterall all we do is trade the money itself. So Most of us stepping into this business start thinking like what can we make, how much we need, what can we loose, how much we can afford to loose, can i do this fulltime or should do it only as a side business.
That's all pretty much most traders thinks about the market and try's to sum it in an excel sheet of statistics and probabilities. So we make our own perceptions about it and stand by them and defend them on forums (and windup making FF rich. LOL).

Is there anything wrong with? NO!

But we are too much into Maths and completely ignoring Art's.

What about " The Love of The Game "???

In almost all the other high paying professions people focus more towards becoming better and better and better at what they do and money just follows them. First thing that comes to mind is Sports, entertainment than doctors and engineers and so on. They know that as long they got game money is not a problem but when they start failing to perform everything's a problem.

Why can't we be the same? Why not just put aside all the probabilities, possibilities, stats, limits and boundaries posted and preached on the internets and books and TRY TO ACHIEVE EXCELLENCE, TRY AND BECOME BETTER EVERY DAY. Try to become the trader who executes his rules flawlessly, try not to make the same mistakes over and over.

After that if make 20% a year or 100% a month, just accept it cause that's what you desrve and get your a$$ back to becoming better again.

One of the greatest traders of all time and greatest trading books of all time. Jesse livermore.

What did he talked about?

All he talked about was beating the game, Becoming better, learning from mistakes... That's all. He never advised on what are realistic targets and what are not.

Another analogy that comes to mind is racecar drivers and speedometers. Figure the rest.

Sorry for the long rant.
.
  • #225
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:34pm Dec 21, 2011 1:34pm
Quoting smittens4212
Doubt it. In my opinion, the best traders are at least partially discretionary (and if you are not, don't take offense, this is just my personal opinion), and are nimble enough to apply their methodology and knowledge to multiple time frames. That being said, the shorter the time frame, the more opportunities arise, so my hypothesis is that the better traders actually tend toward the smallest comfortable time frame possible. Of course as funds are accumulated and position sizes increase, the time frames would subsequently move out, but that's really...
If you understand price well enough, the same strategy can be applied to the daily chart, as it can the 1m. I personally prefer the 5m, as I would need smaller spreads to make it worth my time on the 1m.

I always have some swing cooking or in the preheating phase. Then I hammer the 5m/15m/1h dependent on my current level of boredom. Same strategy, same risk setups. The only thing that is different is the pips risked/gained. But it is proportional to the time frame.

I will say, that my stats do show a slight drop in accuracy on the lower time frames (accuracy drops about 10%). At the same time, I take a lot more trades on the smaller time frames. The daily, it's a good week if I have entered more than 1-2 trades. Usually I aim for 1 swing a week though.
  • #226
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:43pm Dec 21, 2011 1:43pm
Quoting Venice
If you understand price well enough, the same strategy can be applied to the daily chart, as it can the 1m. I personally prefer the 5m, as I would need smaller spreads to make it worth my time on the 1m.

I always have some swing cooking or in the preheating phase. Then I hammer the 5m/15m/1h dependent on my current level of boredom. Same strategy, same risk setups. The only thing that is different is the pips risked/gained. But it is proportional to the time frame.

I will say, that my stats do show a slight drop in accuracy on the lower time frames (accuracy drops about 10%). At the same time, I take a lot more trades on the smaller time frames. The daily, it's a good week if I have entered more than 1-2 trades. Usually I aim for 1 swing a week though.
Yup, that is literally exactly what I was thinking of when I say that better traders are discretionary (to a point) and able to apply their knowledge to multiple time frames (of course this wouldn't be pointed towards purely FA traders). I actually think you can just give traders such as these price charts with no time frame label and they will be able to trade it nearly as well as if they had been on their preferred time frame.

And it is worth noting as you did that accuracy may decrease slightly on the lower time frames, and spread does take a bigger chunk, but I think these are fairly self-evident.
  • #227
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:52pm Dec 21, 2011 1:52pm
Quoting erock

You guys are trading something where there is no herd, you can't follow the herd. You can take the best trader in the world and he will not make profit long term, say 10 to 15 years trading forex.
Hello erock,

"You trade markets where people all have the same objective as you, to make a profit."

Really? I suppose you trade equities where their objective is to lose money.

You guys are trading something where there is no herd, you can't follow the herd.

Well now that explains everything. What was that thing called that just ran your ass over when you entered a trade in the wrong direction? A flock maybe, a covey, a gaggle, a school, a pod, a bevy, a swarm or a freaking 80,000# truck. Whatever you want to call the sucker. Your one dead MTF. Rest in peace.

I heard the Nerd:nerd: say there was no HERD
So I sat at my computer and laid down a bet
as a fortune in Pips was going to increase my net.
When along came a wave that I never saw
that wiped my account to a Margin Call.

Love that road kill,

Johnny
  • #228
  • Dec 21, 2011 1:57pm Dec 21, 2011 1:57pm
Quoting nhen
As others have said you cannot compare people like Buffet to retail traders trading forex.

I don't think anyone who is doing 20%+ a month is claiming that they are compounding the full amount, most are trading for a wage and compounding part of that. For instance trading with a 50k account, risking 1% a trade, taking in 20%+ a month and taking a wage of around 3k a week.
This is not what I am doing but those that are close to me - one extended family member.
No smoke and mirrors or illusions here, they have just mastered the instruments they trade...
This is an interesting thread and that is a great post.

The OP does seem to have forgotten that skillful daytraders can consistently add huge percentages to relatively small accounts (10 - 20k) then extract the profits and do it all over again weekly / monthly, whatever.

1-10% a day is a damn good living, believe me people are doing it every day on this forum.
  • #229
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:00pm Dec 21, 2011 2:00pm
Quoting nasir.khan
We have talked about almost every thing in this thread. What % targets are possible and which ones are not, randomness, statistics, probabilities and more that some of what i even dont understand.

What i think is that whole debate is more focused on NUMBERS and it should be naturally as afterall all we do is trade the money itself. So Most of us stepping into this business start thinking like what can we make, how much we need, what can we loose, how much we can afford to loose, can i do this fulltime or should do it only as a side business.
That's...
Excellent rant, mate. Some people just 'do not get it'. What you have stated is something I apply to my life as well. Trading is just one facet of it.

From EXCELLENCE to EMINENCE...
  • #230
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:00pm Dec 21, 2011 2:00pm
Quoting nhen
Once again you have selectively read a post, please read it again, I clearly said he takes a wage from his trading every month and compounds what percentage is left over.
He can and does make those percentages every month and yes effectively could compound to infinity BUT as I said some people have a psychological limit on the $ value of a pip they can handle.
The point is it is absolutely possible to make even 40%+ a month trading forex, what is more difficult is to continue doing those figures when the $ pip value gets past a certain point.

Do...
another good post.

Who gives a sh*t about compounding except the deluded dreamers. We are here to make a living. Do it for long enough and you will gradually increase your trade sizes and your account size with it.
  • #231
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:09pm Dec 21, 2011 2:09pm
Quoting smittens4212
Doubt it. In my opinion, the best traders are at least partially discretionary (and if you are not, don't take offense, this is just my personal opinion), ...... hedge funds don't engage in these types of strategies.
I do trade completely discretionary. But timeframe matters if you want to make more than just pips per trade.

Trading lower timeframes increases the decision making and the chances for more errors just like an average driver running with the big dogs in the Indy 500. Sure they can drive, but not at 225mph.

And what kind of strategies are those. The thread author said nothing of timeframe. It is others that made these assertions.
  • #232
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:11pm Dec 21, 2011 2:11pm
Quoting SunTrader
And what kind of strategies are those. The thread author said nothing of timeframe. It is others that made these assertions.
To be fair, we have been all over the place in this thread in terms of topic, LOL.
  • #233
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:12pm Dec 21, 2011 2:12pm
Quoting jag1966
another good post.

Who gives a sh*t about compounding except the deluded dreamers. We are here to make a living. Do it for long enough and you will gradually increase your trade sizes and your account size with it.
That's how you make money off of the compounding. You don't make money off of high risk high leveraged trades.

I can see where you guys are coming from if you only have $400-$1,500 in an account then forex is really your only bet available.
  • #234
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:19pm Dec 21, 2011 2:19pm
Quoting erock
That's how you make money off of the compounding. You don't make money off of high risk high leveraged trades.

I can see where you guys are coming from if you only have $400-$1,500 in an account then forex is really your only bet available.
Uh... High leverage != High Risk. Are you still ignoring all the discussions in this thread regarding calculated risk? Do you not do this in the equities or futures market? If that was true, and you were any type of fund manager, you wouldn't get anywhere near my cash.

Pray and hope, what a strategy!
  • #235
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:21pm Dec 21, 2011 2:21pm
Quoting jag1966
another good post.

Who gives a sh*t about compounding except the deluded dreamers. We are here to make a living. Do it for long enough and you will gradually increase your trade sizes and your account size with it.
Which is technically just another form of compounding really.

This thread has been interesting but it's followed the same path most threads do.. Turns into a debate about patterns, randomness, and money management. If you think the market is random, then you're just looking at it from the wrong angle.
Time hides Nothing
  • #236
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:22pm Dec 21, 2011 2:22pm
Quoting nasir.khan
We have talked about almost every thing in this thread. What % targets are possible and which ones are not, randomness, statistics, probabilities and more that some of what i even dont understand.

What i think is that whole debate is more focused on NUMBERS and it should be naturally as afterall all we do is trade the money itself. So Most of us stepping into this business start thinking like what can we make, how much we need, what can we loose, how much we can afford to loose, can i do this fulltime or should do it only as a side business.
That's...
Adding more to the "Love" part.

If you ask the question, why forex/trading?

Among the most common answers, the one is " just love it". Well that invalidates my whole point in my previos post doesn't it? If everyone loves it than why most are loosing?

Well the ans is, they don't love Forex, actually HATE their other JOB. They see it as a shortcut to financial freedom (thats how i saw it at first too). Pump the cash into an account, Load some indi's and Give it a try for a month,2,6 a year, Fail and go back to their job and that's how you get the 95% failure ratio. They never wanna know why it moves? why the SR works and when it doesn't? why the hell it moves a 200 pips up all of a sudden when everybody thought euro was doomed? all you hear is wow this market is crazy, ohhh it so random. In end they get pissed off and you get threads like these once in a while.

On the other hand when you fall in love with something, you want to know about it more and more. Not because it may reward you but because it just fascinates you. More you get to know more u feel that there is so much more to learn.

Ive seen people on this forum who way ahead of most of us and they aren't stopping and it makes sense too. If you can make 10% a month than there is no reasoon to belive you can't make 12% next month.

Question is are you just focusing on the figure "2%" or are you really in love.

Think now i am starting to sound crazy to most of you. So that's it.
  • #237
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:28pm Dec 21, 2011 2:28pm
Quoting nasir.khan
But we are too much into Maths and completely ignoring Art's.
.
x2 Nice rant
Time hides Nothing
  • #238
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:41pm Dec 21, 2011 2:41pm
Thanks Venice & Cindy.releaved my hurting thumbs (on phone).
  • #239
  • Dec 21, 2011 2:59pm Dec 21, 2011 2:59pm
Quoting nasir.khan
...What about " The Love of The Game "???

In almost all the other high paying professions people focus more towards becoming better and better and better at what they do and money just follows them. First thing that comes to mind is Sports, entertainment than doctors and engineers and so on. They know that as long they got game money is not a problem but when they start failing to perform everything's a problem.

Why can't we be the same? Why not just put aside all the probabilities, possibilities, stats, limits and boundaries posted and preached...
You could have just said focus on the trading and not the money, but the rant makes the point quite nicely.
  • #240
  • Dec 21, 2011 4:33pm Dec 21, 2011 4:33pm
Quoting bbakker
You could have just said focus on the trading and not the money
Haha, that sums it up nicely, and I think it's also the general answer to the question asked in the title of the thread. No, we don't think forex trading sucks, because we love it. Though many of us keep hopes up: whether we make money or not is only of secondary importance.
The nail that sticks out gets hammered back in
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