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20% per month. Is this possible?

  • #201
  • Dec 16, 2011 5:21pm Dec 16, 2011 5:21pm
Sure it is possible. However, if you are new to Trading... it might be best to aim a bit lower like 3-6% on the month.

There is plenty of time to earn handsome returns after 18-24 months of consistency. I know... who wants to wait that long right?

GLGT
  • #202
  • Dec 16, 2011 6:29pm Dec 16, 2011 6:29pm
Some people like the easy way and some work had for it, well as I struggled with my emotions and how hard it was for me to be consistent, I tried every strategy I cud find online, I done fib trading MACD trading, I used all indicators u can find, u name it I properly used that one aswell, thy say trade what u see, I did that aswell and still ended up with no result, after 2years with no consistency filled with frustrations finally fund my holy grail, simple price action with mm = market makers business plan, combine this 2, u’ll be guru himself, well just to be clear I don’t have mm business plan, but what i do know is how to predicate mm business plans, by merging this 2 it made my trading easier, 20% a month is possible, again yes it is, I can make 20% in one day, if u don’t believe me see my demo account, see the attachment, as u can see, in 8weeks made 961% plus I wasn’t even trading for 2weeks,

like phenomenal said “the beauty of trading is that everyone trade differently” when it comes to risk me and M.A.C.Doug we do thing the opposite way, life is all about taking risking, stay cool my friends
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #203
  • Dec 16, 2011 8:14pm Dec 16, 2011 8:14pm
Quoting phenomenal
Hehe! Those companies weren't trying to make 20% a month. They were trying to make 1000% a month.

Probably more than that... but over leveraged is over leveraged... percentage of attempted return rate is only speculation.

To put this into better perspective for you... I don't know you. You don't know me. I have been here in FF for a long time... since Dec 2007. You haven't been here that long at all...about 15 posts worth... which classifies you as a noob.
(It doesn't mean you are, except for your membership here. I can only assume.)

Can you imagine how many conversations I've read in the 4 yrs I've been here that claim the same or similar sentiments you claim?

I only have 1 question for you...

Where are all those people?
  • #204
  • Dec 16, 2011 9:28pm Dec 16, 2011 9:28pm
Quoting pip_seeker
Probably more than that... but over leveraged is over leveraged... percentage of attempted return rate is only speculation.

To put this into better perspective for you... I don't know you. You don't know me. I have been here in FF for a long time... since Dec 2007. You haven't been here that long at all...about 15 posts worth... which classifies you as a noob.
(It doesn't mean you are, except for your membership here. I can only assume.)

[size=3]Can you imagine how many conversations I've read in...
Maybe those people have decided to leave these forums as they're the ones raking in money and see the forums as zoos of traders squabbling over each other where some 10voucher members don't even trade live, members that have been members for several years are still not making a living and hundreds of systems, thousands of opinions piling up on top and yet few are actually making money, and they want nothing more to do with it...maybe...
  • #205
  • Dec 16, 2011 10:34pm Dec 16, 2011 10:34pm
Hi, this is an interesting thread but very lacking in ambition.

Why do we think a proficient experienced retail trader should be targetting less than 20% a month? Thats only 10 pips a day over 20 days with a moderate 2% level of risk.
eg. 20% of a $10k trading account = $2k
over 20 trading days thats an average of $100 a day profit or about 10 pips at 1 lot of EURUSD net of losses. With a 2% risk per trade thats a 20 pip stop loss so nothing overly agressive if trading 5 minute timeframes.

Obviously at higher timeframes lower lot sizes would be needed for a larger stop loss but htis would be compensated with a larger expected pip win.

With an increase in trading account size nothing has to change other than the lot size traded.

Now does anyone really think that a professional non institutional trader cannot manage an average of 10 pips a day? Being able to trade anytime of the day for any length of time, any pair?

Why can't a proficient amateur do this when theere are hundreds of pips to be had each day?

I think the answers lie in

1. Lack of time investment. If we accept that it takes 10,000 hours to become expert at something at 10 hours a week thats 1,000 weeks or approx 20 years. To become moderately proficient allow say 4,000 hours or about 8 years. I know from my experience there is a long and complex learning curve primarily to understand what trading techniques suit each person , then to learn to use them consistently then to go through this process time and time again.

I have thoughts on a range of other reasons but thats enough for now.

By the way I'm not proficient and can't manage 20% a month but
have expectations with many more days and weeks of practice of this being easily achievable.

rgds

Peter
  • #206
  • Dec 16, 2011 10:45pm Dec 16, 2011 10:45pm
Quoting jeanlouie
Maybe those people have decided to leave these forums as they're the ones raking in money and see the forums as zoos of traders squabbling over each other where some 10voucher members don't even trade live, members that have been members for several years are still not making a living and hundreds of systems, thousands of opinions piling up on top and yet few are actually making money, and they want nothing more to do with it...maybe...

I agree. I mean how many Top hedge fund managers are here in forums like this. Forums to me are just for entertainment. Some people in forums like this take comments too seriously. Come on...
  • #207
  • Dec 17, 2011 2:58am Dec 17, 2011 2:58am
Quoting faceme
Some people like the easy way and some work had for it, well as I struggled with my emotions and how hard it was for me to be consistent, I tried every strategy I cud find online, I done fib trading MACD trading, I used all indicators u can find, u name it I properly used that one aswell, thy say trade what u see, I did that aswell and still ended up with no result, after 2years with no consistency filled with frustrations finally fund my holy grail, simple price action with mm = market makers business plan, combine this 2, u’ll be guru himself,...
this is a demo account - you have taken no risk and achieved no return. You will not be able to reproduce anything like this result when real fear and greed are involved. I am profitable in every demo account, dozens of them for years. The experience had value but has nothing to do with real trading results. Only very naive people with little or no experience believe a demo account represents reality
BTC Return This Year: na
  • #208
  • Dec 17, 2011 4:39am Dec 17, 2011 4:39am
Quoting peterke
Hi, this is an interesting thread but very lacking in ambition.

Why do we think a proficient experienced retail trader should be targetting less than 20% a month? Thats only 10 pips a day over 20 days with a moderate 2% level of risk.
eg. 20% of a $10k trading account = $2k
over 20 trading days thats an average of $100 a day profit or about 10 pips at 1 lot of EURUSD net of losses. With a 2% risk per trade thats a 20 pip stop loss so nothing overly agressive if trading 5 minute timeframes.

Obviously at higher timeframes lower lot sizes would...
Great attitude, nice post, stay positive and never give up.
  • #209
  • Dec 17, 2011 6:19am Dec 17, 2011 6:19am
Interesting discussion!!
One of the most interesting parts is the talk of compounding and the fact that most commenting think that REAL traders are in fact doing this i.e. trying to be the richest man on the planet in 5 years starting from a $100 account with a $200 K Mart Laptop and a micro account with a broker.
There are Many traders out there making a very comfortable living trading Forex or Futures and in some rare cases Stocks with an initial annual bank of around $10000
By comfortable I mean $80000 to $100000 plus
Take Forex for example 10 pips per day average ((((((which if you are even contemplating playing the game is very achievable, and if it isn’t go back to “”INVESTING in lottery tickets””))) using a $10000 account and running 5 contracts trading 4 days a week and taking a 4 week break per year equates to an income of $96000 per year!!!! Now that is not a bad income and the chance are that if you have the “RIGHT” trading methodology and some discipline you will achieve this in only a few hours of those 4 days I am talking about. s@#t there may even be weeks when you may be able to rattle your lazy bones for 5 days, but hey you only live once and there is a lot of fishing and sailing to do.
I personally know of quite a few traders who do this!!!!!!
As with most Human Endeavours there are the talkers and the doers, and I believe that there are many, many “TRADERS” out there making a living TRADING who do not participate or indeed read any of the discussions that are put forward in any of the many trading forums that exist.
I have been trading on and off since 1985 and enjoy reading some of the discussions in FOREX Factory especially “The Comedy Club” no just joking. I must gratefully acknowledge and thank many contributors whose knowledge and Ideas I have played with and adapted over the years.
For all the negative naysayers out there “Please refer to the comments above about investing in Lotto Tickets” and let those who have the drive and positivity find their way in the Trading Jungle, without you trying to drag them down because you cannot do it*****
Go For It in 2012
Cheers Bearman
  • #210
  • Dec 17, 2011 7:39am Dec 17, 2011 7:39am
Quoting Bearman52
Interesting discussion!!
One of the most interesting parts is the talk of compounding and the fact that most commenting think that REAL traders are in fact doing this i.e. trying to be the richest man on the planet in 5 years starting from a $100 account with a $200 K Mart Laptop and a micro account with a broker.
[size=3][font=Calibri]There are Many traders out there making a very comfortable living trading Forex or Futures and in some rare cases Stocks with an initial annual...
Yet another very nice post. Believe what Bearman says, I do almost exactly what he mentioned, I make about 20 trades a week yet need no more than an hours chart time a day.

It takes time to build your own method but even it it takes five years it is well worth the effort.
  • #211
  • Dec 17, 2011 9:22am Dec 17, 2011 9:22am
20% a month is possible, but consistently, no. The first thing that comes to mind is that you will get diminishing returns as you hit the maximum lot limit of your broker, unless you are able to find even more pips with your strategy. If you get to trade on EBS prices, you'll quickly realise that the spreads are wider on the real interbank market than they are on retail brokers, so it's another hurdle to overcome.

I pose the readers a question: Have you ever lost 50% of your account, where tens of thousands of pounds (or equivalent) are lost? And more importantly have you recovered it back? Unless you have experience of some serious losses you won't appreciate what it takes to be successful (consistently profitable).

Risk control is important, but it's even more important that your strategy has a positive expectancy, otherwise you're going to end up with zero. Being positive and confident alone will not cut it. It's easy pickings for brokers when the default human behaviour is to be overly-confident.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
  • #212
  • Dec 17, 2011 9:34am Dec 17, 2011 9:34am
Quoting jeanlouie
Maybe those people have decided to leave these forums as they're the ones raking in money and see the forums as zoos of traders squabbling over each other where some 10voucher members don't even trade live, members that have been members for several years are still not making a living and hundreds of systems, thousands of opinions piling up on top and yet few are actually making money, and they want nothing more to do with it...maybe...
Maybe this could be true except for the fact that the forum is littered with people who used to be here but got discarded due to multiple user names, infractions overload or whatever the reason.

There there's the ones that just go silent... probably because they get tired of the incessant need of some people who feel they need to piss on everyone.

You might claim it's me pissing on you... but let me remind you we are in the Rookie Discussion section of the forum board. There is a plethora of people who come to FX with the imagination of getting rich quick... but leave it by going broke even faster.

Risk / Leverage is a two edged sword.... not everyone can play with 400:1 leverage and even some that have the opportunity to trade with 400:1 leverage still wind up blowing the wind. 50:1 leverage doesn't give you much wiggle room. So everything I have said here will hopefully be astoundingly clear to you and all who read it.

PS: I don't have vouchers because I don't care about vouchers. I am a trader first and foremost. I trade live and am successful at it. I don't need an ego boost by showing my live account in a public forum, the demos I show from my journal page and other places are for demonstration purposes only.

The thing is I'm real... and my longevity here proves it. You can try and discount it as much as you like I'm not here for a popularity contest as my voucher count would otherwise dictate that to you quite nicely.
  • #213
  • Dec 17, 2011 10:33am Dec 17, 2011 10:33am
Have any of you actually sat down and formulated how one could achieve or atleast set out to accomplish this task of 20% per month?
  • #214
  • Dec 17, 2011 10:48am Dec 17, 2011 10:48am
Quoting Reactor
20% a month is possible, but consistently, no. The first thing that comes to mind is that you will get diminishing returns as you hit the maximum lot limit of your broker, unless you are able to find even more pips with your strategy. If you get to trade on EBS prices, you'll quickly realise that the spreads are wider on the real interbank market than they are on retail brokers, so it's another hurdle to overcome.

I pose the readers a question: Have you ever lost 50% of your account, where tens of thousands of pounds (or equivalent) are lost?...
Losing 50% of your account should only be a newb problem, admittedly alot of us do it when we start out but once you implement strict money management that should never happen.

As for reaching brokers limit whatever happened to having a high probability trading method and making 20% a week, withdrawing it and doing the exact same thing the following week.

20% of 10K or 20k a week is a great wage for most people, nowhere near the brokers limit.
  • #215
  • Dec 17, 2011 12:41pm Dec 17, 2011 12:41pm
Quoting InnerOTrader
Have any of you actually sat down and formulated how one could achieve or atleast set out to accomplish this task of 20% per month?
Someone on the previous page already did, it comes out to about 10pips in the green a day with 2% risk over 20 trading days in the month.
  • #216
  • Dec 17, 2011 12:51pm Dec 17, 2011 12:51pm
Quoting pip_seeker
Maybe this could be true except for the fact that the forum is littered with people who used to be here but got discarded due to multiple user names, infractions overload or whatever the reason.

There there's the ones that just go silent... probably because they get tired of the incessant need of some people who feel they need to piss on everyone.

[size=3]You might claim it's me pissing on you... but let me remind you we are in the Rookie Discussion section of the forum board. There is a plethora of people who come...
"Maybe", that's the key word here isn't it, 'maybe' they did this, 'maybe' they did that. In the end it just boils down to either proofs or assumptions. I don't really care either way. But I do understand where you're coming from, which is really the lack of proof of winning traders who were once members and went off the radar for whatever reason.

I'm not accusing you of anything, just informing on the reality that high voucher members and low voucher members as well as members with 'longevity' whether they are making money or not, don't always share out live account stats.
  • #217
  • Dec 17, 2011 3:10pm Dec 17, 2011 3:10pm
Quoting InnerOTrader
Have any of you actually sat down and formulated how one could achieve or atleast set out to accomplish this task of 20% per month?
Yup, 20% a week makes more sense tbh.
  • #218
  • Dec 17, 2011 9:37pm Dec 17, 2011 9:37pm
Quoting Xenaga03
I am not so new to forex, but I would like to know if any professional traders have been able to consistently pull off 20% a month, at least uptil a $100,000 account. Is this possible? I am trying to figure out what my target should be monthly for my return on capital and what figures are realistic.
A friend of mine said he knew someone who would guarantee 10% return every month. I can't trust anyone when it comes to my investments, either I trade or I won't invest at all. I am looking for 5-10% return every month and I'll be happy.
  • #219
  • Dec 17, 2011 9:59pm Dec 17, 2011 9:59pm
Quoting jeanlouie
"Maybe", that's the key word here isn't it, 'maybe' they did this, 'maybe' they did that. In the end it just boils down to either proofs or assumptions. I don't really care either way. But I do understand where you're coming from, which is really the lack of proof of winning traders who were once members and went off the radar for whatever reason.

I'm not accusing you of anything, just informing on the reality that high voucher members and low voucher members as well as members with 'longevity' whether they are making money or not, don't always...

The magical connotation here is that I am profitable... I have longevity. This isn't to mean I am the only one. There are quite a few here that joined FF right around the time that I did that I assume by their comments that they are profitable.

I never got into the voucher stuff because I am a trader not a salesman when it comes to FX. The voucher system is more for someone looking to sell something other than trade currencies.

I display demo stats. I don't display live acct stats. The demo's show profits so you believe what you want to as far as the live acct is concerned.

I'm not here to prove anything to you... only to myself. The demos offer a glimpse of what I can do. It's not break neck speed and it doesn't have to be for me as FX isn't the only thing I do.

FX is one of the most riskiest investments... if not why all the disclaimers everywhere. So I look for safety anyway I can find it, but not to the point where the investment isn't worth it to me. Your feelings about it maybe different than mine and that's ok... You have to know when enough is because Greed is a powerful emotion that too many traders get killed by.

Most traders that fit into the 20% or more a month bracket will have break neck returns one minute and flush the account the next. Most of them are ego maniacs that think they are God's gift to forex.

(Now notice I said most. I didn't say all and therefore I also said within that same paragraph that it's not impossible... but there in lies the rub. You will have a higher casualty rate than someone who clocks around 5-12% a month with rarely a worry of bringing harm to the account.)

Never forget the story about the RACE... Rabbit vs. Turtle.


  • #220
  • Dec 18, 2011 12:09am Dec 18, 2011 12:09am
Quoting jag1966
Losing 50% of your account should only be a newb problem, admittedly alot of us do it when we start out but once you implement strict money management that should never happen.

As for reaching brokers limit whatever happened to having a high probability trading method and making 20% a week, withdrawing it and doing the exact same thing the following week.

20% of 10K or 20k a week is a great wage for most people, nowhere near the brokers limit.
I think you are missing the point. There will be losses. Being confident will not change the situation.

A high probability trading method and you'll have enough set-ups during the month to hit 20%, including the losses?

By the way, I was talking monthly, not weekly. I think you are counting your chickens before they have hatched and getting ahead of yourself thinking you can do 20% a day.

As an example, let's say you have $10k, 50:1 leverage and you use it all, you trade EURUSD and your base currency is USD. You'll need about 53 pips a day to make $2,000. Some days the range is only about 100 pips, so you need to capture the move before it happens, which is far more easily said than done.

If you are looking to do it over the month, you need about 3 pips everyday on average. Sounds easy right? Of course it is if you have a strategy that will net you this, including the losses! The best probability I've seen has been between 60 and 70% with a R:R of 1:1 (assuming you are going to use a stop loss).

So a SL of 3 and TP of 3, right? You can try it and see what happens, but the 60-70% system has a wider SL and TP and doesn't produce a set up everyday, so there is already a challenge to overcome. Secondly, if you do use a SL of 3 and TP of 3, you'll quickly realise that it is easily 70% of the time your SL will be hit, which means mathematically you are only going to lose money.

It's easy to fool yourself thinking that you can just do it. It's only 3 pips a day, right? Yes, but no one is just going to give it to you. Remember, it's a zero sum game. In order for me to win, someone must lose.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
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