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How do I move forward?

  • #221
  • Edited Dec 1, 2011 1:10am Nov 30, 2011 11:01pm | Edited Dec 1, 2011 1:10am
Quoting Marv

This IS a competitive business my friend, probably THE most competitive in the world.
At the level the big boys play.... yes. They are always trying to fake each other out. At the retail level... I don't think so. I have no "move" I can make to affect the "other guy".

We all use metaphors to understand our experience. Many traders use the concept of "somebody is out to get me" and "playing to win" to keep their focus. And I say, if it keeps you on your toes, it probably will help help you.

I prefer the metaphor of the Cambodian farmer trying to make his living during the Vietnamese war. Mines are real. They were placed there as an act of war. They will blow your leg off. However, nobody was trying to blow the leg off of that particular farmer and whether or not the farmer gets to keep his leg is irrelevant to the war games the big boys are playing.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #222
  • Edited 2:11am Dec 1, 2011 1:47am | Edited 2:11am
I was addressing his statement that the market is not a competitive environment because it's:

Quoting Tyoon
far too huge and complex to be competitive
which of course only shows a lack of understanding of:

1) The zero sum nature of the market
2) Market microstructure and the limitations it has, and ---> the results of such limitations on the behavior of what you call the "big boys", and ---> the results of the latter's behavior on price movement, and ---> the results of such movement on the profitability of your same old TA/FA typical "majority" trading mentality that will always tend to fall for the certain faked price movements over and over again.

See how this affects you? Not by just targeting YOU as a single trader. Just because you are never targeted as a single trader doesn't mean you should just ignore these facts and say that "to you" the market is not competitive and you're here just to make some cash as a very small unnoticed retail trader.

This does affect you, just not in the way you think it does.

Quoting Tyoon
They are always trying to fake each other out. At the retail level... I don't think so.
lol. They fake "each other" out via fake PRICE MOVEMENT. No matter how small you are, YOU ARE TRADING THAT PRICE.

The fact that there are mines in your farm is VERY relevant to you. You can't just ignore that fact, you have to learn about it and deal with it or you will eventually die.

jag1966 said it well: "their job is to fake us into trades in the wrong direction or scare us out of trades we know are right, you have to learn to know what they are trying to do and deal with it."

"us" includes anyone who is not one of them and is unaware of their behavior, having a $10 retail account, or a $200k institutional account, doesn't matter.
  • #223
  • Dec 1, 2011 1:56am Dec 1, 2011 1:56am
Quoting Marv
I was addressing his statement that the market is not a competitive environment because it's:



which of course only shows a lack of understanding of:

1) The zero sum nature of the market
2) Market microstructure and the limitations it has, and ---> the results of such limitations on the behavior of what you call the "big boys", and ---> the results of the latter's behavior on price movement, and ---> the results of such movement on the profitability of your same old TA/FA typical "majority" trading mentality that will always tend to fall...
Thanks Marv, that is exactly what I meant, even the big money (bank traders etc) are at the mercy of the biggest money, I have no idea what the "biggest money" actually is but I know it is there and it manipulates the market.
  • #224
  • Dec 1, 2011 2:02am Dec 1, 2011 2:02am
While not disagreeing with what you said, I am pointing out that regarding the market as a "competitive game" or an impersonal "mine field" is a matter of personal preference. I know a guy who equates PA with women and Pips with sex. His metaphor works very nicely to keep his eyes on the ball. And that is what is important.

PA works quite nicely with or without the idea that somebody is out to get me. And on a personal level, the more I watch it the less I find worrying about the why worth spending my emotional energy. Quite simply, the concept of somebody out to get me move me away from direct observation and into "mental story telling".
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #225
  • Dec 1, 2011 2:51am Dec 1, 2011 2:51am
Quoting AaronWard
While not disagreeing with what you said, I am pointing out that regarding the market as a "competitive game" or an impersonal "mine field" is a matter of personal preference. I know a guy who equates PA with women and Pips with sex. His metaphor works very nicely to keep his eyes on the ball. And that is what is important.

PA works quite nicely with or without the idea that somebody is out to get me. And on a personal level, the more I watch it the less I find worrying about the why worth spending my emotional energy. Quite simply, the concept...
Aaron, I think we are on the same page buddy, I greatly respect your views BTW.

I am so laid back now I don't give a fig about fundis (I have studied it in depth, enough to know I don't need them), nor about what the biggest money is doing, the candles and bars tell me exactly what they are doing, that's everything I need to know really.
  • #226
  • Dec 1, 2011 3:00am Dec 1, 2011 3:00am
Quoting jag1966
Aaron, I think we are on the same page buddy, I greatly respect your views BTW.

I am so laid back now I don't give a fig about fundis (I have studied it in depth, enough to know I don't need them), nor about what the biggest money is doing, the candles and bars tell me exactly what they are doing, that's everything I need to know really.
Many thanks for your kind words. Most people spend a lot of effort letting me know I am wrong... I start to worry if I am not called a moron at least once a day.

I enjoy fundis... they are fun, as it were. I like them... understanding the game is useful in giving me confidence in placing certain types of trades. It also gives me a clue to identify what is to me the most important thing in trading... identifying a trend reversal on the higher time frames. But perhaps this is just a sign of my inexperience with PA. I am still quite new at it.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #227
  • Dec 1, 2011 3:16am Dec 1, 2011 3:16am
Quoting AaronWard
Many thanks for your kind words. Most people spend a lot of effort letting me know I am wrong... I start to worry if I am not called a moron at least once a day.

I enjoy fundis... they are fun, as it were. I like them... understanding the game is useful in giving me confidence in placing certain types of trades. It also gives me a clue to identify what is to me the most important thing in trading... identifying a trend reversal on the higher time frames. But perhaps this is just a sign of my inexperience with PA. I am still quite new at...
Haha, u r welcome.

Ref fundis I actually switch news off, radios etc, cos they skew my pa trading.

I use the monthly / weekly charts to trade the lower tfs with absolute confidence.

I can see the trend reversals easily that way.
  • #228
  • Dec 1, 2011 7:01pm Dec 1, 2011 7:01pm
Quoting Finoli
Hi,

I have started a bunch of posts lately, when they are all in some way trying to seek out the answer to this one; how do I move forward?

I am 16 and have been trading and studying Forex on and off for about 2 years. I am still not a profitable trader.
Don't take me wrong, I didn't expect to be able to make a living trading Forex after 2 years, but why not keep moving forward if I can?

So I ask you this.. what's the next step? Trading demo for 5 hours a day? Trading LIVE for 5 hours a day? Reading a bunch of books? Attending to...

Hello, want to share some thoughts for your progress,
I think you should have grasp some knowledge in forex after trading and learning for 2 years, and now if you are asking How you can move forward, the only cause is that you're not profitable yet or you are a bit profitable and you think you are not.

My best advice is to be patience, what kind of money do you want to make in your age? it doesn't even necessarily to make money for most of common kids in your age, and also...with much money in your hands, comes much more responsibility and much-much more problem that you can't even imagine this time.

Okay, back to topic, things you should be doing to move forward :
1. Learn to trade in big TF, I'm advocating daily
2. Learn to not wasting your daytime for trading, chasing the pot of golds in the end of the rainbow and eventually you will find it is not a pot of golds but corn flakes
3. Get a life! treat forex as business, and you don't wasting all your time in your business while any other business will never grows overnight
4. Be patience!
5. Be patience!

Summary :
the cores are to be patience, this is not as hard as you thought, this forex thing just takes time to settle!
  • #229
  • Dec 2, 2011 12:22am Dec 2, 2011 12:22am
Im sure you are doing this because you think i's fun right?
if you think it's fun then you have the right mind set and a bright future ahead, if you think it's booring and not of interest for you to sit infront of a computer every day and follow the market, then you never be successful, if we have fun we are never waising our time, try to learn to predict wich way the market will go, if you fail stop right there and search for an ansver, then try again,
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
  • #230
  • Dec 2, 2011 1:18am Dec 2, 2011 1:18am
Quoting roughtrader
Im sure you are doing this because you think i's fun right?
if you think it's fun then you have the right mind set and a bright future ahead, if you think it's booring and not of interest for you to sit infront of a computer every day and follow the market, then you never be successful, if we have fun we are never waising our time, try to learn to predict wich way the market will go, if you fail stop right there and search for an ansver, then try again,
Somewhere I read that while most forex addicts lose money, the vast majority of successful forex traders are forex addicts.
Kill the ego, or it will kill the mission.
  • #231
  • Dec 2, 2011 3:03am Dec 2, 2011 3:03am
You should be keeping it fun while you start learning, but if you want to make real profits you should put less time on it, draw yourself away, do it as your part time job but it pays you fulltime, not the inverse.
2 years of experiences of daytrading / short term trading would be enough to understand market patterns, trading hours, how candles formed, losing money, taking money from market, exploring various types of trading system, curve fitting prices, etc...etc...

With this 2 years of experiences you will get to 1 conclusion by doing these next steps :

1. Get your self off from trading forum!
2. Stop listening people's opinions about "what works, or what doesn't", without putting a deeper thought and try on it
3. Try to ask your self this question : "how would I trade If this is my first trading experience and no one would tell me what should I do?"
Then answer this question based on your 2 years of experiences of watching price movement!
And also, put this assumption in your head : " There is no fucking way of making money by doing it in the ways people have told me, I should find my own way! "
  • #232
  • Last Post: Dec 4, 2011 10:30am Dec 4, 2011 10:30am
Quoting roughtrader
Im sure you are doing this because you think i's fun right?
if you think it's fun then you have the right mind set and a bright future ahead, if you think it's booring and not of interest for you to sit infront of a computer every day and follow the market, then you never be successful, if we have fun we are never waising our time, try to learn to predict wich way the market will go, if you fail stop right there and search for an ansver, then try again,
Yes of course, I love trading. I wish I could just drop out of school and start trading more seriously. Of course I'm not going to, I might need the education for other work later..
But yes, I feel like if I keep having this mindset I will some day become a successful trader. This, though, can only be achieved if I learn more about trading etc.

Quoting in_drag88
1. Get your self off from trading forum!
2. Stop listening people's opinions about "what works, or what doesn't", without putting a deeper thought and try on it
3. ...
I seriously wish I had the guts to do that; I always enjoy doing things on my own without too much input from others, but for some reason I can't regarding Forex..


Finoli
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