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  • #1,441
  • Nov 29, 2011 7:20am Nov 29, 2011 7:20am
There was something similar on usd/chf. I was stopped out, but they gave me refund, they said it was "off-market spike". It was on Tuesday, 20.09.2011, 21.03 gmt.
  • #1,442
  • Nov 29, 2011 8:02am Nov 29, 2011 8:02am
Quoting qwerty633
There was something similar on usd/chf. I was stopped out, but they gave me refund, they said it was "off-market spike". It was on Tuesday, 20.09.2011, 21.03 gmt.

oh my goodness, what do they mean by 'off-market spike'~~

then do you still think this platform is ok?
  • #1,443
  • Nov 29, 2011 9:15am Nov 29, 2011 9:15am
Well, that's how they wrote this to me. I'm still trading (not much, I'm a beginner, I must learn first) but I know I need to be careful and when something strange happens, I must compare charts from other companies to understand what happened.
In that case I was talking about it is "good", that also oanda and some other brokers (but not many) had the same spike.
  • #1,444
  • Nov 29, 2011 2:29pm Nov 29, 2011 2:29pm
Quoting mrjinks
Is this only happening on metals ?

What about other instruments, such as majors ?
I have not noticed this, however there is obviously some strangeness in the PA sometimes. What makes me feel comfortable still is that when you look back in the charts for UsdChf, for instance, you can still find the price anomaly. If they were being really dishonest then the older spikes would 'fade out'.

I suggest that metals trading is still a new thing for Duka. Do they use only one clearing house for Gold? That would certainly make it difficult when the main exchanges are closed.

There is a general liquidity problem in the interbank market at the moment. This is caused by the bond trading problems that have been aired in the news so much recently. There are going to be some weird movements on pricing but at least we can watch for the really strange things.

So far I have not witnesed any of the monkey business that I saw with my first forex account.
Minesweeper target: 284
  • #1,445
  • Edited 4:18pm Nov 29, 2011 4:07pm | Edited 4:18pm
Quoting hubaermi
http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1322529267
Epic stop hunt, no doubt about that. Kind of too obvious and too big though, and that's what's weird. Makes me think it's probably a price data malfunction instead. Contact them to confirm, and ask for a refund if you were harmed by this.
  • #1,446
  • Nov 29, 2011 8:18pm Nov 29, 2011 8:18pm
Quoting hubaermi
Hey there, did anyone noticed the spike of XAU/USD on 2011.11.18??

As shown in the attachment, it hit nearly $40 higher than other platform's quote which stays below $1725 at that time.
The liquidity is so poor for one to attack such spike??

Now, my account manager dipped into this issue with other team and explained that, it's because their liquidity provider gave them this spike and meantime their system or platform failed to filter this out.

Still I'm not so sure about what this means; does it mean that their system is not so robust to filter such spike? or their provider provided wrong data?
what I care about is whether such issue will happen very often in the future; this time I checked the 2H chart and found my position had been stopped out because of such spike, but what if I did not check this? what if next time I neglect to check it ??

But I agree with Primate that so long as such spike is still on the chart, it means that maybe they are not dishonest. And yes they did refund the position after claim for investigation.


Below is the snapshot from my JForex on 2H chart for that day's XAU spike.
Attached Image
  • #1,447
  • Nov 30, 2011 2:16am Nov 30, 2011 2:16am
Im very disapointed, I did not expect this kind of bucketshop behavior from DukasCopy,
with these spikes it's pretty obvious what they are doing,
I definitely will pass on this broker and I suggest everyone else do the same if you wan't fair trading
because it doesn't seem like we can get it at DukasCopy
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
  • #1,448
  • Nov 30, 2011 8:10am Nov 30, 2011 8:10am
Quoting roughtrader
Im very disapointed, I did not expect this kind of bucketshop behavior from DukasCopy,
with these spikes it's pretty obvious what they are doing,
I definitely will pass on this broker and I suggest everyone else do the same if you wan't fair trading
because it doesn't seem like we can get it at DukasCopy
I think it is the metal broker hunting the stops. The free charts on Daily FX do not have the spikes. Also I believe Duka would not do this - especially since they are reading this thread.

It is a shame but I think it means you cannot trade metals on Duka.
Minesweeper target: 284
  • #1,449
  • Nov 30, 2011 12:54pm Nov 30, 2011 12:54pm
Quoting Primate
I think it is the metal broker hunting the stops. The free charts on Daily FX do not have the spikes. Also I believe Duka would not do this - especially since they are reading this thread.

It is a shame but I think it means you cannot trade metals on Duka.

Dear all,
Although Dukascopy Bank SA strives to provide the best datafeed in the industry, it cannot guarantee that spikes will never occur in all circumstances. As a matter of fact, when liquidity providers’ quotations are erratic, such datafeed abnormality may appear, few and far between.
However, as it was noted by hubaermi on 29 November 2011, datafeed history remained available for some time on the internet for verifications. In the case of the XAU spike dated 17 November 2011, Dukascopy Bank SA has reinstated all stop loss orders hit by this spike. Consequently, no client suffered any loss because of this spike.

As regards with the posting of Marv on 29 November 2011 concerning XAG/USD chart, we kindly highlight that during the period considered on the chart, precious metals were only available in Demo version meaning they were still in development phase and not yet offered for Live trading. Therefore there was no client trading precious metals with Dukascopy Bank SA at that time and no client could suffer any damage. Live trading on XAG/USD has been made available on 16 April 2011, while the quoted chart shows spikes in 2010.
Our Support Desk is available 24h to receive and investigate any case of spike reported by clients.
Best regards,
 Dukascopy Bank SA
  • #1,450
  • Nov 30, 2011 3:13pm Nov 30, 2011 3:13pm
Quoting roughtrader
Im very disapointed, I did not expect this kind of bucketshop behavior from DukasCopy,
with these spikes it's pretty obvious what they are doing,
I definitely will pass on this broker and I suggest everyone else do the same if you wan't fair trading
because it doesn't seem like we can get it at DukasCopy
Like I said (and as confirmed by Dukascopy above, thanks bellieres), this looks more like a data feed malfunction and they would give you your money back if you were harmed by this.

No need to freak out. Malfunctions happen with every bröker in my experience. What's important is how willing the bröker is to act professionally and refund your money quickly when they happen.
  • #1,451
  • Nov 30, 2011 4:10pm Nov 30, 2011 4:10pm
Quoting bellieres

 Dear all,
Although Dukascopy Bank SA strives to provide the best datafeed in the industry, it cannot guarantee that spikes will never occur in all circumstances. As a matter of fact, when liquidity providers’ quotations are erratic, such datafeed abnormality may appear, few and far between.
[font=Arial][size=3]However,...

Well, is this valid for Dukascopy Europe IBS AS too and can you, please confirm it?
gonnwall
  • #1,452
  • Nov 30, 2011 6:08pm Nov 30, 2011 6:08pm
Quoting Marv
Like I said (and as confirmed by Dukascopy above, thanks bellieres), this looks more like a data feed malfunction and they would give you your money back if you were harmed by this.

No need to freak out. Malfunctions happen with every bröker in my experience. What's important is how willing the bröker is to act professionally and refund your money quickly when they happen.
Agreed. Since they are stating publicly that they are re-imbursing clients who were stopped-out that is honest and the best they can do.
Minesweeper target: 284
  • #1,453
  • Dec 1, 2011 12:51am Dec 1, 2011 12:51am
Quoting Marv
Like I said (and as confirmed by Dukascopy above, thanks bellieres), this looks more like a data feed malfunction and they would give you your money back if you were harmed by this.
If it were only data feed malfunction then:
1. you would have gotten the spikes on your charts (which is the case here) and
2. trades wouldn't have been executed (Duka is supposed to be an ECN).

It is non-ECNs who internally bucket trades based on data feed (it doesn't matter in non-ECNs' case whether the data feed is correct or corrupted / spike saturated - trades get executed).

If trades' execution at Dukascopy is based on data feed (not on real-time orders submitted by third party liquidity / order providers) then Dukascopy is a bucket shop.
  • #1,454
  • Dec 1, 2011 1:12am Dec 1, 2011 1:12am
Quoting bellieres

 Dear all,
Although Dukascopy Bank SA strives to provide the best datafeed in the industry, it cannot guarantee that spikes will never occur in all circumstances. As a matter of fact, when liquidity providers’ quotations are erratic, such datafeed abnormality may appear, few and far between.
[font=Arial][size=3]However,...
If Dukas paid you back whats the big deal?

When I was with MBT and I had a exact case like this, I had no luck getting anything back.
  • #1,455
  • Dec 1, 2011 3:48am Dec 1, 2011 3:48am
Quoting bellieres

 Dear all,
Although Dukascopy Bank SA strives to provide the best datafeed in the industry, it cannot guarantee that spikes will never occur in all circumstances. As a matter of fact, when liquidity providers’ quotations are erratic, such datafeed abnormality may appear, few and far between.
[font=Arial][size=3]However,...

Hi Bellieres, thanks for your explanation, now I'm much clear now.
  • #1,456
  • Dec 1, 2011 4:53am Dec 1, 2011 4:53am
Quoting Karl_Vosp
Read this article http://forexmagnates.com/forex-clear...rise-cls-bank/

CLS Bank clears over 70% of FX volumes in the world.

Here is the list of the bank's shareholders http://www.cls-group.com/About/Commu...reholders.aspx

Here is a list of third party participants (including 519 banks) as of 7 October 2011 who clear through CLS Bank http://www.cls-group.com/SiteCollect.../TP%20List.pdf

There are a number of banks, ECN brokers on the list like Marex, Newedge, ODL and even production...

Dear Traders,

As regards to Karl Vosp’s questions about CLS we inform you that Dukascopy Bank SA is not using CLS for clearing but is either clearing directly with its counterparties or through prime brokers.

Institutional clients and banks may use CLS for clearing with Dukascopy Bank SA through a prime broker.

Best regards,
Dukascopy Bank SA
  • #1,457
  • Dec 1, 2011 8:41am Dec 1, 2011 8:41am
IMAO if they were honest as they claim to be, they would answer any arisen question...not just the chosen ones..
gonnwall
  • #1,458
  • Dec 1, 2011 10:55am Dec 1, 2011 10:55am
Quoting roughtrader
Im very disapointed, I did not expect this kind of bucketshop behavior from DukasCopy,
with these spikes it's pretty obvious what they are doing,
I definitely will pass on this broker and I suggest everyone else do the same if you wan't fair trading
because it doesn't seem like we can get it at DukasCopy
hi roughtrader and other traders from dukascopy:

i think all of us should know something about ECN and CFD,there are two basic ECN platforms as I know ,one is EBS and the other Reuters.all banks worldwide transfer their fx orders to these 2 platform to deal with.
Lava,currenx,hotspot or other ECN platforms are not basic platforms,they just simply transfer orders from brokers like Dukascopy to EBS or Reuters.This kind of platforms are known as retail ECN platform.

as ECN only accept standard orders as much as 1 million ,small orders from
brokers cant not directly go to ECN,so the only thing Duksacopy can DO is bucket.i opened my account last July and i have asked this kind question to my account manager through telephone,and what she told me that small orders cant go to ECN ,and Dukascopy have to bucket them together.

as to CFD,what i should tell you first is gold ,silver oil, stocks as you can trade on other brokers like FXCM or FXDD are all Market Maker things.there is no ECN for such kind of thing.so its common for dukascopy to bucket orders together.dukascopy is your COUNTERPARTY.


below are 2 links about ECN and CFD ,hope that will work

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/...#axzz1fImFTC5p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_for_difference
  • #1,459
  • Dec 1, 2011 11:42am Dec 1, 2011 11:42am
Quoting emacsen
hi roughtrader and other traders from dukascopy:

i think all of us should know something about ECN and CFD,there are two basic ECN platforms as I know ,one is EBS and the other Reuters.all banks worldwide transfer their fx orders to these 2 platform to deal with.
Lava,currenx,hotspot or other ECN platforms are not basic platforms,they just simply transfer orders from brokers like Dukascopy to EBS or Reuters.This kind of platforms are known as retail ECN platform.

as ECN only accept standard orders as much as 1 million ,small orders from
brokers...
I don't know what to believe
all Im saying that it looks suspicious,
I understand that small orders are bucket as you say
and also CFDs with are OTC. Im just really scared of things like this,
I been through a lot of bs from my brokers in the past.
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
  • #1,460
  • Edited 5:23am Dec 2, 2011 5:09am | Edited 5:23am
Quoting bellieres
Dear Traders,

As regards to Karl Vosp’s questions about CLS we inform you that Dukascopy Bank SA is not using CLS for clearing
Okay. This is fair.

Quoting bellieres
[Dukascopy is clearing ] through prime brokers [who have established relations with CLS and clear through CLS]
If these prime brokers use CLS then 1 prime broker would be suffiecient. But I can understand that having more prime brokers gives extra security in case technical difficulties appear on a particular prime broker's end. So it is better to have more than one prime broker. Good.

Quoting bellieres
[Dukascopy is also clearing ] with its [Dukascopy's] counterparties
What types of counterparties are these? Banks / other brokers / individuals / export-import companies? Doesn't it add to the cost of running the business?


Some questions regarding the two types of clearing parties (prime brokers and Dukascopy's counterparties):

1. Through prime brokers you clear:
A. Dukascopy's headging trades:
i. all
ii. some
iii. none
B. Traders' trades (e.g. my trades initiated via Jforex):
i. all
ii. some
iii. none

2. Through Dukascopy's counterparties you clear:
A. Dukascopy's headging trades:
i. all
ii. some
iii. none
B. Traders' trades (e.g. my trades initiated via Jforex):
i. all
ii. some
iii. none

Thanks in advance for your reply Mr Bellieres.
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