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  • #2,201
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:06am Nov 29, 2011 10:06am
Quoting Aztrader2
Dear Peter & Dean

I have a technical question that arose today in mind..... I had the suspect but now have proof....!
Supertrend candles REPAINTS!!!!!

Example (see images) Candles are Green...then if I change TF ( i was just testing other systems using Fratelli V1 Main candles...) & come back...Green became RED !?!?!

Did you already know this issue? Could it have affected your backtest?
Nooooo
  • #2,202
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:08am Nov 29, 2011 10:08am
Quoting fratelli
Please dont show such things here.
The Danish TAX office comes after me. LOL
Peter
Pips...? Who got pips here...!?!?
  • #2,203
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:11am Nov 29, 2011 10:11am
Quoting Aztrader2
Dear Peter & Dean

I have a technical question that arose today in mind..... I had the suspect but now have proof....!
Supertrend candles REPAINTS!!!!!

Example (see images) Candles are Green...then if I change TF ( i was just testing other systems using Fratelli V1 Main candles...) & come back...Green became RED !?!?!

Did you already know this issue? Could it have affected your backtest?
i believe thats fine, a coder put a code in to simply stop it repainting in real time, so u can close appropriately, but if u do change out and come back it will change, all the coder has done has stopped it changing real time if u dont move the chart off so we dont get confused as it repaints
  • #2,204
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:11am Nov 29, 2011 10:11am
Quoting Aztrader2
Dear Peter & Dean

I have a technical question that arose today in mind..... I had the suspect but now have proof....!
Supertrend candles REPAINTS!!!!!

Example (see images) Candles are Green...then if I change TF ( i was just testing other systems using Fratelli V1 Main candles...) & come back...Green became RED !?!?!

Did you already know this issue? Could it have affected your backtest?

For sure it can have affected my backtest, because when I backtested
we realised that trendcandles could sometimes repaint 1 candle back.

But I am also sure that when Micky say it dont repaint now.
then it dont
And I have not seen it this week.

But iff you put on different times frames you will have different candles
and that can well change colours.

But I will show your pic to Micky.

Could you pm me those pictures but bigger so we have a chance looking at it.

Peter
  • #2,205
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:33am Nov 29, 2011 10:33am
EJ - S +20(with old rules)
EU - S +10(with old rules)
EU - L +20
EJ - S -20
EJ - S +20
EJ - S +20

+ 70pips

great day!


if anyone has suggestions ..
willingly
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 29:11 - 9.01 - EJ - S - Gain.png Size: 30 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 29:11 - 9.15 - EU - S - Gain.png Size: 28 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 29:11 - 10.25 - AU - L - Gain.png Size: 27 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 29:11 - 10.40 - EJ - S - Loss.png Size: 30 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 29:11 - 14.00 - EJ - S - Gain.png Size: 28 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: 29:11 - 14.19 - S - Gain.png Size: 27 KB
  • #2,206
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:39am Nov 29, 2011 10:39am
Quoting Aztrader2
Dear Peter & Dean

I have a technical question that arose today in mind..... I had the suspect but now have proof....!
Supertrend candles REPAINTS!!!!!

Example (see images) Candles are Green...then if I change TF ( i was just testing other systems using Fratelli V1 Main candles...) & come back...Green became RED !?!?!

Did you already know this issue? Could it have affected your backtest?
tell me on what pair u saw that?
and at what time? (gmt time)
and what broker
also explain what it means changed timeframe?

Thank you
  • #2,207
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:41am Nov 29, 2011 10:41am
are the supercandles based on fractals?
It looks like they just change color when the consecutive lower low
or higher high are broken..........

and what made you choose 10 min time frame fratelli?
why not 5 min or 15 min?

thank you
  • #2,208
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:48am Nov 29, 2011 10:48am
Quoting MickyMouse
tell me on what pair u saw that?
and at what time? (gmt time)
and what broker
also explain what it means changed timeframe?

Thank you
In the images I posted:
1) EU
2) Red arrow was on 18:45 (GMT +1) Candle
3) Alpari UK (live micro account)

I was on 5 min TF, then changed to 15 min, then went back to 5 min and candles changed color
  • #2,209
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:48am Nov 29, 2011 10:48am
Quoting kolesar007
I totaly agree with all of you!
Gleneagles mention this two times if I remember right, I have some spare time and I did some test today .

If you have done a test and are satisfied that there is no benefit in trying to generate extra pips with the same risk, scrap the idea and stick to the rules.
In the end it is your money at risk and you should trade within your comfort zone.
" Never let the past hold the future to ransom "
  • #2,210
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:52am Nov 29, 2011 10:52am
Quoting Aztrader2
In the images I posted:
1) EU
2) Red arrow was on 18:45 (GMT +1) Candle
3) Alpari UK (live micro account)

I was on 5 min TF, then changed to 15 min, then went back to 5 min and candles changed color
also can u tell me if the colors now changed,

how were u able to take a screenshoot of the candles before?
  • #2,211
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:54am Nov 29, 2011 10:54am
Quoting Gothamcity
are the supercandles based on fractals?
It looks like they just change color when the consecutive lower low
or higher high are broken..........

and what made you choose 10 min time frame fratelli?
why not 5 min or 15 min?

thank you
the reason is that I want get rid off the lazy traders, that will not put in the efforts and work it takes to get this running.
Peter
  • #2,212
  • Nov 29, 2011 10:59am Nov 29, 2011 10:59am
The modified super trend candles do not repaint

the original version was able to repaint 1 bar back " that is one bar back"

you have 2 bars repainted....

so very interesting...
  • #2,213
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:05am Nov 29, 2011 11:05am
I've never really understood the hysteria surrounding "repainting" indicators. Sure, it affects backtesting. But here is an example of a repainting indicator - moving average.

So nobody would ever use one of those in a trading system would they? Oh, wait a minute, I think I've seen a few....
  • #2,214
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:26am Nov 29, 2011 11:26am
Quoting Swg123
I've never really understood the hysteria surrounding "repainting" indicators. Sure, it affects backtesting. But here is an example of a repainting indicator - moving average.

So nobody would ever use one of those in a trading system would they? Oh, wait a minute, I think I've seen a few....
Steve,

The hysteria only sets in if you find:

1) After hours of backtesting and having a warm feeling , you discover that your "trade signals" are all wrong and you have wasted your time.

2) You cannot understand why you keep losing money because you are consistently late with your entries when you compare them with the historical charts

If you know that an indicator "repaints " and you still find it useful for trading , use it by all means.
It is also important to understand that some indicators are "recalculating" indicators and others are "repainting" indicators.

The basis and starting point in developing a trading system starts with backtesting, it is always best imo to have historic PA behave like the realtime PA to test the expected profitability of the system.

I prefer not to second guess the validity of signals when I backtest a system to test whether it has a positive expectancy.

This is just my personal point of view and plenty others may have a different take on it.
" Never let the past hold the future to ransom "
  • #2,215
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:29am Nov 29, 2011 11:29am
Quoting MickyMouse
also can u tell me if the colors now changed,

how were u able to take a screenshoot of the candles before?

Lol nice spot I didnt think about that im looking forward to the answer
  • #2,216
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:29am Nov 29, 2011 11:29am
Quoting Gleneagles
Steve,

The hysteria only sets in if you find:

1) After hours of backtesting and having a warm feeling , you discover that your "trade signals" are all wrong and you have wasted your time.

2) You cannot understand why you keep losing money because you are consistently late with your entries when you compare them with the historical charts

If you know that an indicator "repaints " and you still find it useful for trading , use it by all means.
It is also important to understand that some indicators are "recalculating" indicators and others...
Edit: I use the Supertrend indicator instead of the ST candles for the simple reason that it is easier to backtest.
" Never let the past hold the future to ransom "
  • #2,217
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:30am Nov 29, 2011 11:30am
Quoting Swg123
I've never really understood the hysteria surrounding "repainting" indicators. Sure, it affects backtesting. But here is an example of a repainting indicator - moving average.

So nobody would ever use one of those in a trading system would they? Oh, wait a minute, I think I've seen a few....
No hysteria about repainting here bro...... no need to be sarcastic...

That was just to understand If & Why candles repaint and, in such cases,
how could it have affect backtesting....
As you could have seen, we all here contribute marking eventually noticed technical issue with the sole purpose of better knoweledge and fine tuning the system.

I'm trading Fratelli Live, and today made 60 pips (6%). We don't change the TF of our charts cause we trade on 10min offline... and what counts for us is the signal during live trading....

btw. ma's repaints only until candle is not closed......
  • #2,218
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:32am Nov 29, 2011 11:32am
Quoting deankenny21
Lol nice spot I didnt think about that im looking forward to the answer
i have back tested for hours that indy... i have forward tested it 2 days before givving it to peter for sharing here... It cannot repaint... i am as well waiting for the answer . how he did go back in time to screenshot it
  • #2,219
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:38am Nov 29, 2011 11:38am
Quoting Gleneagles
Steve,

The hysteria only sets in if you find:

1) After hours of backtesting and having a warm feeling , you discover that your "trade signals" are all wrong and you have wasted your time.

2) You cannot understand why you keep losing money because you are consistently late with your entries when you compare them with the historical charts

If you know that an indicator "repaints " and you still find it useful for trading , use it by all means.
It is also important to understand that some indicators are "recalculating" indicators and others...
Glen, I fully take your point and I think you and I both appreciate the limitations of backtesting with ST in MT4.

However, I have seen some quite extreme reactions on threads here against indicators which are actually designed to repaint, or recalc (e.g. semafore) but which can actually be quite useful in real time. That's what I was trying to say ... I think ... probably not very succinctly ...
  • #2,220
  • Nov 29, 2011 11:38am Nov 29, 2011 11:38am
Quoting MickyMouse
also can u tell me if the colors now changed,

how were u able to take a screenshoot of the candles before?
Colors remained the same til now....

I took the first screenshot because I had the suspect that color could change...
(Today I was testing other systems using Fratelli's candles. Incidentally, when I changed TF it seemed to me that some candle changed color. But I wasn't focused on the color, so I couldn't be sure..... )
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