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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #8,401
  • Nov 16, 2011 1:34pm Nov 16, 2011 1:34pm
Quoting salem_747
Good day to all
I am having trouble loging in to my demo mt4 account
there is no connection !
it has been more than a month since i logged in last time
Is there any problems? did you change the servers or something ?
How can I connect now, please help
Salem_747,

Yes, we sent out emails to all PFL Demo accounts that all Demos were being deleted to clear the servers and do some upgrades. You can find detailed instructions on how to get an MT4 demo here:

http://www.mbtrading.com/mt4DemoTrading.aspx
  • #8,402
  • Nov 17, 2011 9:04am Nov 17, 2011 9:04am
Nowaday MBT's LP has not honor my limit order if the price bounces immediately after the price surpasses my limit order. It happens to me a few times everyday after the introduction of Free ECN Plan. Anyone else encounter the same problem?
  • #8,403
  • Nov 17, 2011 9:35am Nov 17, 2011 9:35am
Quoting ForexQuant
Nowaday MBT's LP has not honor my limit order if the price bounces immediately after the price surpasses my limit order. It happens to me a few times everyday after the introduction of Free ECN Plan. Anyone else encounter the same problem?
Quant,
I too have noticed reduced probablility of limit fills when the price is very near the limit, aka inside bid-ask or I am best BBO. See two screenshots below where bid (the price ALWAYS shown in charts) bounced right off two long standing limits (second). The first screenshot is where bid did not quite reach my ask, but in the past those types of near-misses usually were filled. Also note unfilled bid in at bottom of first screenshot.

Here is my 2pips on what is happening and Justin PLEASE correct any errors. I think fill probability is a function of size and participants. I think only a few LPs agree to fill micro lots, as a result, the only way small size is filled is either 1) when those LPs are at BBO or 2) when MBT customer hits your BBO. I have noticed, that when I am BBO the price seems to need to be 0.5 to 1.0p past my price before getting filled (with positive slippage mind you!).

**As I am typing bid just went through my limit w/o a fill--this is not an error but a function of limit orders = guaranteed price, no guaranteed fill! But the entire market just moved and I got 0.3 positive slippage on my short...So at least MBT is honest in that regard. And it just happened again, I was BBO w/o fill...it's part of the game...**

So, I think it's a function of agreements w/ LPs, size, and fill algorithms. If Justin could shed some light it would be much appreciated. But my net take away is, the Pay for Limits is not risk free. Rather than paying a commission you are risking not getting filled. For me, that is a risk I'm willing to take since PfL has juiced my returns by ~12%.

Cheers,
BroncoCap
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  • #8,404
  • Nov 17, 2011 10:58am Nov 17, 2011 10:58am
May I ask what is your typical trading size? And how many trade per day you do?

Thanks!

Quoting BroncoCap
Quant,
I too have noticed reduced probablility of limit fills when the price is very near the limit, aka inside bid-ask or I am best BBO. See two screenshots below where bid (the price ALWAYS shown in charts) bounced right off two long standing limits (second). The first screenshot is where bid did not quite reach my ask, but in the past those types of near-misses usually were filled. Also note unfilled bid in at bottom of first screenshot.

Here is my 2pips on what is happening and Justin PLEASE correct any errors. I think fill probability...
  • #8,405
  • Nov 17, 2011 11:26am Nov 17, 2011 11:26am
Quoting signorx
May I ask what is your typical trading size? And how many trade per day you do?

Thanks!
Signor,

I am currently trading 3000 units, I started at 1000 and added 1000 every 10% return. I can have up to 45000 units on at one time if markets really go against me. Today I had a 11000 limit fill w/ 0.4p positive slippage all in 1 transaction. But prior to that, I had only 1000 of a 9000 unit limit fill at my price.

At first I was concerned about non-fills, but realize it is part of the process. And since I do see so much positive slippage when limits are ultimately filled, I don't worry too much. I make between 6-25 trades a day (round-trips). Today was a bit rough, took 25 trades and had a bunch, maybe 12 close or no-fills when I was at or near BBO. On the other hand, over half of my round-trips today were filled at prices better than my limit...that more than compensates for the non-fills (along w/ rebates).

Made money so I'm not complaining and $3.80 of the profit was commission rebates, roughly 10%.

Hope that helps,
BroncoCap
  • #8,406
  • Nov 17, 2011 12:15pm Nov 17, 2011 12:15pm
Thanks a lot!

Me too I trade 1k units at time for 30/80 trade a day, up to now no particular problem with filling, I'm little concern if I scale up,say 30K/50K unit per trade, I will get filled with same constancy like now!

There is someone here who trade with that size (~50K unit) in PayForLimit scheme?

regards!

Quoting BroncoCap
Signor,

I am currently trading 3000 units, I started at 1000 and added 1000 every 10% return. I can have up to 45000 units on at one time if markets really go against me. Today I had a 11000 limit fill w/ 0.4p positive slippage all in 1 transaction. But prior to that, I had only 1000 of a 9000 unit limit fill at my price.

At first I was concerned about non-fills, but realize it is part of the process. And since I do see so much positive slippage when limits are ultimately filled, I don't worry too much. I make between 6-25 trades...
  • #8,407
  • Nov 17, 2011 2:45pm Nov 17, 2011 2:45pm
Quoting BroncoCap
Quant,
I too have noticed reduced probablility of limit fills when the price is very near the limit, aka inside bid-ask or I am best BBO. See two screenshots below where bid (the price ALWAYS shown in charts) bounced right off two long standing limits (second). The first screenshot is where bid did not quite reach my ask, but in the past those types of near-misses usually were filled. Also note unfilled bid in at bottom of first screenshot.

Here is my 2pips on what is happening and Justin PLEASE correct any errors. I think fill probability...
BroncoCap,

Sure, let me clarify a few points.

1)ALL of our LPs process mini orders, so there is no issue of only hitting certain people with your size.
2)What is happening is that your limit orders are displayed onto our ECN, which can be hit by other CUSTOMERS (LPs are not on the ECN, they are STP).

So let’s say your bid is 3 and the ask is 4 (for simplicity). If a customer sells at market, he hits you at 3 (because we always route to the ECN first). However, if instead a bank moves their offer down to 3, our system pulls your order off of the ECN (the bank can’t hit YOU, you have to hit them) and routes to the bank. In the milliseconds that this takes, sometimes a bank has leapt under your price, thus you get the better fill.
  • #8,408
  • Nov 17, 2011 3:00pm Nov 17, 2011 3:00pm
Quoting jleblang
BroncoCap,

Sure, let me clarify a few points.

1)ALL of our LPs process mini orders, so there is no issue of only hitting certain people with your size.
2)What is happening is that your limit orders are displayed onto our ECN, which can be hit by other CUSTOMERS (LPs are not on the ECN, they are STP).

So let’s say your bid is 3 and the ask is 4 (for simplicity). If a customer sells at market, he hits you at 3 (because we always route to the ECN first). However, if instead a bank moves their offer down to 3, our system pulls your order...
Awesome Justin, thanks for reply. A couple of clarifications please--

1) Do all LP, or any LP for that matter, process micro orders? Much of the discussion centers around micro lots. My observations suggested micros were more likely fill against MBT customers, not LPs. (I fear I missed something and am making this more complicated than it truly is)

2) The 'Market Depth' in Desktop Pro shows aggregated ECN+LP STP, correct?

3) Is it possible that when my order is pulled from ECN to go to LP-STP, the banks also move away from my limit leading to a non-fill? Or once pulled is the fill some how guaranteed?

Please forgive any misunderstandings/naivete as I've only been watching forex for 3 months after leaving futures...net-net, I think non-fills are just part of the limit order system, it's coincidence/bad luck/whatever that they occur and if your directionality is correct, you will ultimately get filled...

4) Side note--a while back in the forum, it was mentioned that actual depth at a given price was/could be higher than shown in Market Depth, is this still correct? Both Signor and I are concerned about scaleability and hidden liquidity would ease both of our fears, or so I surmise.

5) Routing to the ECN first was critical information, thanks, I think it helps explain when and where prices get filled...if MBT'ers are active w/ markets, better chance of getting fills when BBO...which is what I was thinking...

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions and thoughts! I am a fan of MBT and just making sure they will have the liquidity and fills I will need in the future.

BroncoCap
  • #8,409
  • Nov 18, 2011 1:10am Nov 18, 2011 1:10am
Quoting BroncoCap
Awesome Justin, thanks for reply. A couple of clarifications please--

1) Do all LP, or any LP for that matter, process micro orders? Much of the discussion centers around micro lots. My observations suggested micros were more likely fill against MBT customers, not LPs. (I fear I missed something and am making this more complicated than it truly is)

2) The 'Market Depth' in Desktop Pro shows aggregated ECN+LP STP, correct?

3) Is it possible that when my order is pulled from ECN to go to LP-STP, the banks also move away from my limit...
BroncoCap-

You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be and yes all LPs fill micros.

Yes on the Market Depth in Desktop Pro.

Yes in theory on the non-fill, shouldn’t happen all of the time unless you are that perfect at calling highs and lows to the pip.

Yes, there can be tons more liquidity than what is seen. LPs don’t show their full size in case news hits.

Yes on the last bit.
  • #8,410
  • Nov 19, 2011 2:49pm Nov 19, 2011 2:49pm
Quoting shrike
Justin: given the current MF Global fiasco, and the not so confidence inspiring PNSN chart and surrounding rumors, i think raises some questions of how a potential Penson bankruptcy would play out for MB and their customers. Especially for FX accounts, who end up as unsecured creditors, while futures accounts will be secured (if they didnt pull a MFGlobal)...
Thanks for this heads up. I use to play poker on Full Tilt, and if I've learned anything from there, it's that you don't trust anything but your own instincts - FTPDoug also once responded by stating funds were segregated and safe. They lied and screwed the world out of >$300 million, and I'm yet to see a dime of my balance for 7 months.
  • #8,411
  • Nov 19, 2011 5:08pm Nov 19, 2011 5:08pm
Is MBTrading Forex available to Canadian residents?

I looked at the UK site, which says they take international clients, but Canada wasn't an option when signing up for a demo.
FXGears.com
  • #8,412
  • Nov 20, 2011 9:13pm Nov 20, 2011 9:13pm
@Justin:

Do you have any software/program for managing mt4 accounts? You know, MBT's MT4 is GMT-5, but I need other broker's MT4 send signal and then execute in your platform.

Right now I am using a one, but it's quite lousy and sometimes miss signals, any recommend?

Thank you
  • #8,413
  • Nov 21, 2011 9:20am Nov 21, 2011 9:20am
justin,i am getting abit confused with so many types of accts offered by MBT now,if i am using Desktop Pro for trading & which type of platform shares the similiar quotes as Desktop Pro,e Free ECN MT4 or Pay For Limits MT4?
  • #8,414
  • Nov 21, 2011 9:44am Nov 21, 2011 9:44am
Quoting Zkf
Do you have any software/program for managing mt4 accounts? You know, MBT's MT4 is GMT-5, but I need other broker's MT4 send signal and then execute in your platform.
If you have your heart set on using MT4, then you can have your other broker's MT4 communicate with MBT's MT4 using pipes or shared files. There are examples of these options in the Platform Tech forum.

Another option would be to time-shift your MBT MT4 to match your other broker's server time and then trade directly from MBT MT4.

Although, the best solution, in my opinion, would be to use the MBT SDK.

Quoting fxking
if i am using Desktop Pro for trading & which type of platform shares the similiar quotes as Desktop Pro,e Free ECN MT4 or Pay For Limits MT4?
IMO, the quotes in the Pay For Limits MT4 will be "closer" to the Desktop Pro (real) quotes. Although neither MT4 account type will exactly match the Desktop Pro quotes.
  • #8,415
  • Nov 21, 2011 9:53am Nov 21, 2011 9:53am
Quoting zznbrm
If you have your heart set on using MT4, then you can have your other broker's MT4 communicate with MBT's MT4 using pipes or shared files. There are examples of these options in the Platform Tech forum.

Another option would be to time-shift your MBT MT4 to match your other broker's server time and then trade directly from MBT MT4.

Although, the best solution, in my opinion, would be to use the MBT SDK.



IMO, the quotes in the Pay For Limits MT4 will be "closer" to the Desktop Pro (real) quotes. Although neither MT4 account type...
thats exactly what i think too,but shouldnt be that all types of MT4 be having e same quotes?
  • #8,416
  • Edited 10:46am Nov 21, 2011 10:24am | Edited 10:46am
Quoting fxking
thats exactly what i think too,but shouldnt be that all types of MT4 be having e same quotes?
Definitely not...the prices between the two account types are different (the feeds are different, pending limit orders are different, and the spread markup), I think it would be rare for the two different account types to have the same quotes. But this is by design.

MBTrading summarizes the differences on their website:

http://www.mbtrading.com/mbtfx.aspx
  • #8,417
  • Nov 22, 2011 9:44am Nov 22, 2011 9:44am
Justin,

Can you give us the exact FX brokerage hours for the Thanksgiving holiday? The website is lame...
tulkas
TULKAS
  • #8,418
  • Nov 22, 2011 5:22pm Nov 22, 2011 5:22pm
Quoting Tulkas
Justin,

Can you give us the exact FX brokerage hours for the Thanksgiving holiday? The website is lame...
tulkas
Not sure what you are referring to on the website, but the Forex market is open straight through until the close Friday. No special hours.
  • #8,419
  • Nov 22, 2011 5:24pm Nov 22, 2011 5:24pm
Quoting Jack_Larkin
Is MBTrading Forex available to Canadian residents?

I looked at the UK site, which says they take international clients, but Canada wasn't an option when signing up for a demo.
Jack,

Residents of Canada are not permitted to open an FX account with MB Trading at this time.
  • #8,420
  • Nov 22, 2011 5:25pm Nov 22, 2011 5:25pm
Quoting Zkf
@Justin:

Do you have any software/program for managing mt4 accounts? You know, MBT's MT4 is GMT-5, but I need other broker's MT4 send signal and then execute in your platform.

Right now I am using a one, but it's quite lousy and sometimes miss signals, any recommend?

Thank you
ZKF,

Do you mean managing multiple accounts at one time via a PAMM like program? If so, we do not offer that for MT4.
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