Sam Seiden's Supply/Demand zones

I tend to agree with you but , On those longer time frames those levels become more like ultimate stops . A country may not allow the price to move past or even large commercial traders. I don't go as high as a month , even weekly has stops I can't afford. but I would take notice of that level then still play it as a supply level looking for shorts on my daily and lower charts. I noticed on one of Sam's webinars , they had plotted a supply zone on a weekly chart and he took 3 separate days shorts on it off a 2 min chart. The level was eventually breached. But his losses were small using that fast of a chart, That is how I would treat those levels.

Like today on my 30 min charts longs still looked good, But on a 4 hr we have hardly had any retrace. So still very strong downtrend. The best way to trade S/D is to find levels off large charts 4 hr or greater , then look for trades on faster charts that agree with the larger chart.

So a real obvious supply level on a Daily chart. Look for shorts. if it is a demand level look for longs.you can zoom it down lower and lower getting a tighter entry all the way.

Say the daily has a 100 pip wide level. so you zoom to the 3 hr and find a 45 pip level. Then 30 min it is 20 then at 5 min it maybe less than 10.
This is how it can and does work trouble is that the faster the chart the less clear the levels become. So Plot them on your 30 min or hrly then look for the best entry on a 5 min maybe. I trade pretty much just the 30 min .
using 4 hr and daily for the bigger picture.

Hope this helps. If not maybe zoom down the question more specific. ken

I am making a PDF and that will be in it at the end . Takes a good while to build charts to show a decent response.

chart

charts showing hoe to gain entries with less risk .

That is what I find I love about this , You learn to look for one thing and just perfect that one idea, Simple rules that don't change. If your having trouble with stops or holding for tp' a po could be used for every entry you would normally take . Because this style is a trading plan and trading the plan is the key.

Fantastic job of explaining S&D Kenneth and I'm grateful to have had leelar ferret you out so you could.
Thanks to GoldMan. first, bumapatria for pointing me her thread and thanks to deankenny21 for the continuing education.

I have to admit, I've been a trend/news trader since I went live in August 2011 and quite successful too, thanks to the fine people at FF but I was always looking for another edge in the market.
Maybe I was just hard headed, but some things were just ingrained in my medula from the start, especially S&R levels.
This "order desk" trading style just would not ring true for me until I saw it for my own eyes thanks to deankenny21 Ok, Sam Seiden too but I had a hard time watching his webinars.
deankenny21 was just able to bring it down to my level.
I understand it and I'm getting better at seeing the zones but you have to see it in real time and follow along to get the full understanding of what you are looking at.

leelar you will eventually begin to see it.
People like deankenney, pip26 and Kenneth Lee will add to that knowledge bit by bit until it becomes second nature to you.
Zoom out on the 5,15,30,1H and you'll get a better picture as to where to highlight the S&D zones first. Then zoom in to refine them.
You'll get it. If this 45 year old dog can learn it, you can.

Hello people!

As you can tell by my post count, I'm pretty new here. My account is probably over a year old, but my interest in trading has its ups and downs, and the past year was a down. This is primarily because I can't manage to get profitable even on a demo account, which invariably ends up making me quit for a time. My interest was renewed a while ago, so I started to look for a system I'd like to try this time.
I came across Sam's S/D webinars a few weeks ago and watched through the lot of them. I'm a rookie trader, and I've heard you're supposed to go looking for a magic indicator or a holy grail system first, but I'm all for skipping that silliness.

I started demo trading the Supply&Demand method last week, and I've noticed that I'm not the only one in this thread having trouble finding the strong levels. When I start involving multiple timeframes I end up finding so many levels I get confused and afraid to place an order. This is especially so because I'm unsure whether the higher level timeframe levels were drawn correctly, so I then end up switching between timeframes again and again, all the while trying to determine what the best way might be.

I'd like to start off with a question about one of the charts Kenneth Lee posted. I've modified it a little:



(The blue and green zones were drawn in by me)
The question; I would've drawn in the blue zone. That zone has been touched twice already, which would lead me to consider it an invalid level for entries. Why did you skip over that rally, base, rally zone on the left of the zone you drew in (my blue zone)?
Also, you've drawn in your zone incorporating spikes that I've heard Sam call Pivots, which he described as not being valid supply or demand zones, although he didnt expand much upon the why and how of that.

Green demand level - I could see myself basing a trade on that level. According to the odds enhancer, it looks pretty good. Are you ignoring this level because it doesnt match up with higher timeframe demand?

Of most of all the answer, imo this is the answer which brought me a step further in my understanding of SnD concept..deankenny21 - THANK YOU

Hi all,

I have been demoing since i even care to remember. First couple years with the indicator trap which leads to nowhere, then Steve Nisons BS candlestick patterns (BS because when you change the timeframe the pattern is gone)< You see a Doji on the 1HR chart which could easily be an A-B-C-D pattern on the 5min chart.
But i got very interested in Sam Seidens webinars and trading method. No stupid candle patterns, weird looking "clouds" , pivot points or some silly equation from an antique Italian by the name of Fibonacci.
I honestly do not believe any bank or institution is looking at these things.
I have been applying Seidens method and realy like it. It basically tells you to be on the side of the bigger institutions and banks rather then trying to do what all the smalltimers are trying to do.
I still feel that i'm missing something here (or maybe Seiden makes me feel i'm missing something)

To understand the full concept of Supply & Demand you of course need to understand the full concept of Order flow and the "who" "what" "where" and "when" that come with that.

Also i understand that he is not giving the full list of odds enhancers that come with the package.
Any of you guy's here looking at the full scope of those odds enhancers (I got about 5 or 6 of them now).

Let me know if any of you guy's can point me in a direction i have not looked into before (without paying the $7000usd tuition fee hahahaha)

Mike

Can't tell if you have seen this before. Sorry if it is old news for you.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=311095

hi Lou,

Thanks for pointing me out to that PDF file.
Its a good one.

Mike

Greetings to all!
I trade on Forex. Theme Sem Seiden is interesting to me, I read its lessons, I observe of pupils, behind this forum. Long searched for answers to questions at different people, at "professionals", in books and at different forums. Also has come to conclusion, that style Sem the best. For me, it is final))
For the first time having learnt about Sem, has thought, that I will give 7000 dollars for XLT and problems on it will end. So probably many think … I waited, while Sem something will tell very important, any secret. But he obstinately spoke same - not to buy expensively, not to sell cheaply. Also it seemed, more than anything else. Well, me it and so it was clear. And where a secret? Long waited …
And has then understood. A secret in that it became my relation to trade. Has understood that it is not necessary to look on Stohastic or Bollinger as on the purchase or sale trigger. An essence in understanding of movement of the price, in understanding of a picture on the schedule, in understanding of work of the market, marketmakers, key players. If you know, how it works, do correct steps. And it is surprising, only has accepted this point of view then has ceased to buy in level of the offer and to sell in a level of demand! Stohastic or Bollinger at once began to look differently, began to speak to me about the market in other words and at all about about what write in "clever" books. I will not tell, that indicators are not necessary. But I will tell, that they are not important. It was an unexpected and simple conclusion. Sem the wise person. It does not have exact strategy, it has an exact understanding. And strategy, this private affair of everyone. It also is a secret. Excuse, Sem. I did not pay 7000 dollars, I have understood a secret on free lessons))) But, thanks, Sem! Now I recollect it with a smile …
Here someone wrote, that doctrine Sem not is strategy, it is a thinking method, a template for a sight at the market. It is the truth.

Hi Dexx,

I see your point there.
The reason why i got so interested in all the odds enhancers is that in some of Sams webinars you see him taking levels and draw his lines in places where the free odds enhancers would not have you look for a level, so i ask myself , Why is he taking that level and draw his lines there.
I am thinking the logic through as much as i can but for someone that has never been in financial markets before,.......what more would you look for?? Round numbers? Daily pip range per pair? Correlation with the commodities markets?

Greetings, Jmb33!

I not so well speak English, I use the dictionary. Excuse, if not all I will clearly tell.
I will answer more than you ask. It concerns to Forex more close.

1. How Sem Seiden draws lines and what for it is necessary for it?

I do not think, that Sems is mistaken about levels of demand or the offer. He the real dealer also knows how to earn. But it was earlier. Now it was absorbed by work of other sort - it the main person in Online Trading Academy. It any more that former Sems. Now its purpose to show idea, to interest new clients, to give hope. It the director, at it is not present time to penetrate into details and exact lines. Let he draws incorrectly and speaks not everything, but it is pleasant to me.
Do not think, that I protect it, no. Also not all is pleasant to me in its schemes and vebinares, I see many discrepancies in lines. I asked it a question on it. He has not answered. Possibly, he at all does not know about my existence)). I any more do not set to it questions, and at all I do not pay to this attention (in Academy there are other good teachers). I simply look through lines of its lessons, through advertising, through beautiful show-window Academy in an essence of that he speaks. Earlier it gave more exact data, now - less exact. But, if to look all its lessons (if it in general is possible) it is totally possible to take a lot of helpful information. Add to it lessons of other teachers Academy and you receive rather quite good picture. Sooner or later, any person gives out secrets. If to be able to listen, it is possible to hear much. It not complete course Academy, but nevertheless …

2. What do I search on the schedule?

I do not search for correlation, news or a day range of the prices. Sems has learnt me, that it has no special value. Possibly, I look at the same, as you. But, possibly, we see different things. I will explain, how it is done by me, will explain the most important thing.
I search for a place where in the past there was a big congestion of sellers or buyers. It will be a concrete place where they have made the solving big step. In other words, I look at «the big picture» - I look to the left, on the last history and as it is comparable to the present day. Me the periods 4H, 1D, 1W (sometimes 1Moth), tops and hollows, extrema interest. It those places where earlier game was entered by large players (large banks, funds and similar). They do orders on buy/sell, at them the huge sums of money, figures that and did not dream us. They do it by parts, in some stages (therefore we see, that demand/offer levels reflect the price more than once). Think about required quantity of money which are necessary to these large players within one trading day. Where to take it is so much money? At us, only!, other sources are not present)) And how to take this money? It is necessary, that we have lost, have accepted stop loss. To take money from the trader, it is necessary, that the trader has given money. For this purpose it is necessary, that the trader has entered game. How to invite the trader in game? This story can increase till the size of the book, we will not be …
It is similar to a train and passengers. Passengers can go only to that party where the train goes. Train the machinist, but not the passenger will always operate. Where the train will go now? Will tell, if a free competition of trains, will go there where passengers wish? The answer negative. Can fall, you are killed))... It not that train which will take away you on rest to an ocean coast. Unless you do not know, what 90 % of players lose the money? There are no bases to think, that this time will carry more. Why again to repeat the same action? Give differently. Do not read the tablet onboard the car. To understand intention of the machinist, is better to look at its last action. Most likely, it will make the same. Now it will direct a train there, where and earlier, with probability of 90 % (the movement schedule varies not often). There, where it is waited by profit (surprisingly, but for some reason nobody remembers, that it not a trip to the sea, and business). It means, that at certain level, as before, the price will make turn in other party. Why so? Here the answer. At the broker on a table the big pile of orders on buy/sell, under the price established in advance lays. Think, it will not execute the order of the client or will break the price? Last time the part of orders has been sent on the market (the first extremum). Time of the following part Now has come. Next time the pile becomes absolutely small (level will weaken). You ask how probably to give you on the screen the beginning of an ascending trend? One - the broker should buy a method! It is a lot of to buy. Other methods in the market are not present. And here the price has run upwards. And about a miracle!, all buy. It is train start. But, ahead not an ocean coast, and a pile of counter orders on a table of the broker. «Excuse, it not walk, you have been warned about risks, you were mistaken …» It simply.
Thus, I know, where the market will turn in other party (it not precisely, but with a high probability). Acknowledgement are Sometimes necessary to me. For this purpose I look on CCI (14) - if it out of +/-100, it is good. But it is sometimes more useful to look at the moon, than on the indicator)). Certainly, I will not look exclusively only on CCI, it is not correct. I will not go to take a place in the car, yet I will not understand intention of the machinist)) the Purpose of the machinist is everything, that it is necessary for me. It is my main indicator. It regardless of the fact that politicians, a press will tell, indicators or wish to go to what party passengers. It is absolutely unimportant, that occurs in the world. Even earthquake in Japan has obeyed to this rule... I do not argue on, whether it is correct, is beautiful, ethic in relation to passengers. From it it is possible to become crazy. It is rigid business where to passengers will not explain all details. To you will not say lies, but simply will not tell the truth. Essence simple - the machinist should receive money from passengers. Otherwise that it there does?! Otherwise it not business, and charity. Some people mysteriously say expression «clever money». It is they! All is simple)) It is the fantastic truth about the market. Show though one trading house or a seminar where learn to it?. Sem speaks about it always, it is obvious or it is not obvious.
The exact place of a turn of the market is always a small problem. It can be seen, remembered, understood. But not always probably to explain to other person. It depends from workout an eye, on ability to see feature and laws. There are no two identical places of the beginning of movement of a train because trains live people operate. It is necessary to make many erroneous starts before the understanding and vision (train on demo) will come. But even it will not guarantee success on 100 %. The price is seldom developed precisely on a line of the previous turn. Pertinently to speak about a turn range (a turn zone, width of a turn). In an exact place (+/-3 pips) the price will turn back with probability (for example) 20-30 %, but in a range (+/-40 pips) it will turn with probability of 75-90 %. The probability raises with increase in width. These are figures not for trade, only for understanding. This very simple rule. It is base, epicentre, a source, whence will begin rally. I can not explain words how it looks on the schedule. Each time is a new picture, with some general features. The examples I will show, if it is necessary for someone, on demand. But it will be personally my vision. For search of more exact figures I go on an interval 30 min, 15 min (sometimes 5 min). I search for an activity minimum, small quantity of candles, a small body of candles, similarly Sems.
Certainly, I use amplifiers of possibilities. It makes sense.
Here one more secret - yours setup can not work for other person. Very few people knows about it, but it is the truth. These are features of our perception, psychology. The stranger "good" pattern can appear yours setup on a life bottom. You setup should be yours (or should become yours) that really worked on you. To it as with the child - yet you will not give birth, you will not understand feeling of the parent. It is necessary to become the parent of the setup, let even it "reception", another's. For example, about driving on a motorcycle. You can long explain to other person, as it is necessary to keep balance to go and to fall. But he not so will understand you, while itself personally will not go.
I will continue further. Expand base on some pips is there is a distance between buy (sell) and stop loss. Do not ask, how many should be pips. It is a question of a finance administration and financial risk, this personal preference of each trader. Sem gives a good rule - if the size stop loss frightens you, reduce the size of a prize of trade. I will add from myself - close stop loss worse, than a small prize of trade. In other words, put in a basket few eggs and provide the big interval between them. And you will lose nothing, except increase in quantity of flights to fill your storehouse. It will be correct, if the fear before risk does not allow to think normally.
Here other rule begins not to be afraid of losses. The loss is a normal course of events so should be as in any other business. But beginners faint from the first loss … It unpleasantly, but it is normal. Present, that you have a business and you need to go to your office to take away profit (and then a holiday!). It is pleasant? Then admit small trouble - it is necessary to give a few money and to fill the car, to reach to your office. It is "not unpleasant", these are simply necessary expenses. Otherwise not to reach anywhere. Do not think of gasoline, think about pleasant))
If you manage to adjust the mind as it is described above, you will start to think and operate on the new. You any more will not need to spend a half-life at the computer, to spoil nerves and sight. Books on trade, releases of news, councils of analysts, indicators and other do not become necessary to you. The price will always consider any all factors, whether it be bankruptcy Microsoft, an economy collapse, resignation of the president or earthquake. It will sometimes seem impossible. But only not to you. Rules in the market do not vary. They are stable, as the law of the world attraction. So was earlier so is now so will be further. Understanding rules, you will cease to worry, will start to do correct trading actions. As one trader has told, «game will turn to boring performance of monotonous actions». It sounds not so romantically, but it will bring to you money))

3. I will sum up.

You ask, what for I it have written all? Many search exact figures and answers, magic strategy. I will answer - how many is people, will be answers so much. Unless not so? Unless you heard different answers a little? But it again does not work. Possibly, not about that think, not that ask. The stereotype and a thinking template is often works against us. Incorrect actions begin with incorrect understanding, incorrect outlook. Far not all pupils Sems reach the desirable purposes. Because they not be helped by anybody while they will not help themselves. Business not in that knowledge which to them will be given by the teacher. They simply do not hear, that speaks Sem. Setup will not work, the head yet will not start to work. To begin it is necessary from the belief. In this case from that understanding as the market works. The rest - a trick, it will be not difficult. Can therefore Sem does not give exact lines?.

If it is not pleasant to you, that I have written, dismiss. It is only my style of trade. I wish you profit and all good))
- dexx

There is an OTA center about 30 miles away from me. I have been to a few of their free seminars. Sam presented at one of them. In a word they are Infomercials with an attendance of maybe 100 people. There was some very good stuff presented, but as you said, always left you wanting more. But their business is teaching people to trade. So why keep giving folks free milk when you want them to buy the cow? They make no false claims as to what they are about at the seminars. I spent a lot of time gleaning hints of information about the Odds Enhancers. One or two were given at the seminars. Others I found in Sam's and other instructors written articles. I thought I had a pretty good list. But I vividly remember Sam also saying ... well there are more enhancers we can look at, but that is for the Course. I also know he has said that it would not be fair to those paying many $$$$ for the Course, if a lot of important information was given away for free.
(I am curious as to how the odds enhancers we do have 'got out' to the public. It was a surprising shock to see them all in print and diagrams.)

Anyway, Sam has 'staff' who often or maybe always do the set ups that we
see in the videos that he talks about.

Just my observations from taking time to gather information about Sam's Supply and Demand trading over the past couple of years.

It is available in the free distribution of course directly from Sem Seiden, shown in the table on the right. Here you can see a list of 6 enhancers. Among other lessons, you can find additional amplifiers. I met 7 enhancers. It is a secret or not ?..

[IMG]http://savepic.su/798148m.gif[/IMG]

dexx,

look at post 69 . Download that pdf. look at the last several pages.

Lou, thank)

Hi Dexx & lou,

Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your long reply and efford in explaining the way you look at it Dexx. I might not understood all you said there but i got a better picture.

Almost done writing my trading plan.

Mike

Hi, Jmb33!

Council, if you allow...

Many people accept another's strategy and hope to receive 100 % of success. It will not work. Collect the information from different people. If to you say, that it is correct on 100 %, know, that it is correct only for that person, the author of idea. Take to itself not that to you wish to give, that is pleasant to you. It can make only 1 or 5 % from another's idea, but do not worry about it. It that will work for you. The rest will not work. Took from one person of 5 %, took from the second person of 3 %, took from the third person … And so collect the strategy to 100 %. In other words, collect the strategy from small parts of another's strategy. Do not think, that this another's. Now this yours. Sense here that - for you you will work only. Only that was pleasant to you. In acknowledgement to it I will tell, that any successful trader has own strategy, but not the another's.
The resume. Do not search for that "is correct". Search for that "is pleasant". For you it will work only.

At you it will turn out, I know it. I wish you success.

- dexx

reading this in Master Yoda's voice