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vsa with Malcolm

  • #22,081
  • Oct 18, 2011 11:39am Oct 18, 2011 11:39am
Quoting hutrader
Pitty they're market makers trading trough saxo.
Technically yes, Citi are market makers, but, when it comes to displaying volume even in lowly MT4, you are getting an excellent mix of institutional and pro traders who use them, hence the benefit of their feed for VSA. Their tick count is one of the highest and has nice delineation between bars, just what you need for VSA. I have never ever sensed any tricks while trading with them - and there is good separation of duties with their spot trading branch and their clearing/MM side, esp. now with the recent US crackdowns. And mind you, they are the 4th largest clearer of worldwide spot FX volume, beating out many another brand name. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forex for more.
  • #22,082
  • Oct 18, 2011 11:52am Oct 18, 2011 11:52am
There was a great debate and it is still open if the tic volume is real. I just made a study comparing the volume from different brokers. I was interested not in values but if the volume forms some clearly defined cycles. And guess what for me the metatrader volume indicator sometimes makes difficult to see patterns that are easier to spot if you use an excel sheet, or rapid miner to plot.

The thing is that there are some clear cycles when the volume will increase. And then ...

-The tic volume forms clearly defined cycles.
-The different retail brokers have different tic volume but the cycles are at the same place
-The volume is correlated with the volatility (it is nothing new)
-Sometimes the Mt4 indicator volume does not work properly.(You need to do manually the scaling in order to see clearly the cycles)
  • #22,083
  • Oct 18, 2011 1:16pm Oct 18, 2011 1:16pm
Let's not forget VSA looks at relative volume.

In absolute terms, a tick count (acitivity volume) of 1000 may be considered as Ultra High.

Yet, so is a tick count of 10 if the previous 15 intervals have tick counts of less than 4...........
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #22,084
  • Oct 19, 2011 1:56am Oct 19, 2011 1:56am
Quoting HiddenGap
Welcome to the team. You'll soon learn that you have access to the minds of some great VSA traders like Intel, Frankkn, Pres78 and Sonofsin. You'll also find that the list of great VSA trades grows as the thread thrives (there must be some connection here).

Anyway, to answer your question about volume. To be honest, this question continually comes up and I personal hate it. Ultimately, the real answer is you must trade what you see.

With that said, here's a list to think about:

1. Futures volume- I would suggest trading futures...
Hi HiddenGap,

Can i ask you for onne screen shot of euro futures in e-signal??

Thanks in advance.
  • #22,085
  • Oct 19, 2011 8:49am Oct 19, 2011 8:49am
Have not heard from him in a while...
Its all in the mind.
  • #22,086
  • Oct 19, 2011 9:40am Oct 19, 2011 9:40am
Quoting HiddenGap
Let me put a stop to this right now. Welcome adriann to the forum. This is a place to SHARE and GROW together. I am a student like the rest here and can certainly be wrong.

I don't think the concept of my post was made clear.

If you are having trouble spotting signs of weakness or signs of strength, it may actually help to first narrow your focus to WHERE you want to see the signs of strength or weakness. Frankkn constantly shows subtle enties on his charts. I believe one reason he can do this is because he as a strong understanding of the...
Excellent Points, HG. Thanks.
  • #22,087
  • Oct 19, 2011 9:57am Oct 19, 2011 9:57am
Quoting Beljevina
Technically yes, Citi are market makers, but, when it comes to displaying volume even in lowly MT4, you are getting an excellent mix of institutional and pro traders who use them, hence the benefit of their feed for VSA. Their tick count is one of the highest and has nice delineation between bars, just what you need for VSA. I have never ever sensed any tricks while trading with them - and there is good separation of duties with their spot trading branch and their clearing/MM side, esp. now with the recent US crackdowns. And mind you, they are the...

Good Post. Thanks.
  • #22,088
  • Oct 19, 2011 10:21am Oct 19, 2011 10:21am
My mistake was to listen to the news about improved housing starts. I should have been reading the bars and take the short.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #22,089
  • Oct 19, 2011 10:48am Oct 19, 2011 10:48am
Quoting rbumbalough
My mistake was to listen to the news about improved housing starts. I should have been reading the bars and take the short.
How can you say thats a nd, nd's dont break lower tests do. I think they wanted have a nd on the next bar but it closed down.

With so much weakness a failed test short might of been nice.
  • #22,090
  • Oct 19, 2011 11:14am Oct 19, 2011 11:14am
Quoting pete148
How can you say thats a nd, nd's dont break lower tests do. I think they wanted have a nd on the next bar but it closed down.

With so much weakness a failed test short might of been nice.
Hello Pete: I can say that is an ND bar because it has a relatively narrow spread with an up close, on volume less than the preceding 7 bars. That its close was not exactly in the middle is immaterial nor is that it had a lower low than the prior bar. Reference Trade Guider Primer page 35 and Trade Guider VSA Setup Sequences Explained page 65. Note that nothing is noted about where the low may be relative to other recent past bars. Additionally testing usually occurs near swing low bottoms after signs of strength not swing high tops after signs of weakness.

Best Wishes and Regards
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: TGP ND page 32.GIF Size: 61 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: TGVSATSSE ND page 65.GIF Size: 58 KB
  • #22,091
  • Oct 19, 2011 11:26am Oct 19, 2011 11:26am
Here is a document titled Tom's VSA Principles. Perhaps some will find it interesting or useful.
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File Type: pdf toms_vsa_principles[1].pdf   127 KB | 6,675 downloads
  • #22,092
  • Oct 20, 2011 1:56am Oct 20, 2011 1:56am
Hi ,

Anyone here trading crude oil..?
I wanted to find out what is the best broker for volume feed for crude.


Thanks a lot..
  • #22,093
  • Oct 20, 2011 8:09am Oct 20, 2011 8:09am
  •  s7c
  • | Joined Mar 2011 | Status: try and fail but don't fail to try | 289 Posts
Quoting rbumbalough
Hello Pete: I can say that is an ND bar because it has a relatively narrow spread with an up close, on volume less than the preceding 7 bars. That its close was not exactly in the middle is immaterial nor is that it had a lower low than the prior bar. Reference Trade Guider Primer page 35 and Trade Guider VSA Setup Sequences Explained page 65. Note that nothing is noted about where the low may be relative to other recent past bars. Additionally testing usually occurs near swing low bottoms after signs of strength not swing high tops after signs...
hi, i wanted to say i would not take that as a nd either but for sure i would take the next bar even it closed on low it made higher high and of course the vol is lower then previous bars. there was allot of examples from gavin and tom with nd like that...
  • #22,094
  • Oct 20, 2011 8:12am Oct 20, 2011 8:12am
  •  s7c
  • | Joined Mar 2011 | Status: try and fail but don't fail to try | 289 Posts
Quoting vin.sin
Hi ,

Anyone here trading crude oil..?
I wanted to find out what is the best broker for volume feed for crude.


Thanks a lot..
hi, thinkorswim seems they have a pretty decent vol and it's free, but more reliable it will be a futures broker which is not altering the vol like infinity, mirus, pfg...i trade options on crude
  • #22,095
  • Oct 20, 2011 8:43am Oct 20, 2011 8:43am
This is my first post in this thread but I have followed it since 3 months... reading the MTM as well as studying from the posts...

From the deepest of my heart I would like to thanks to all of u guys.. Mal, HG, and intel as my hidden teachers... once again thank you very much, you have changed my trading style eternally.......
  • #22,096
  • Oct 20, 2011 10:13am Oct 20, 2011 10:13am
Quoting rbumbalough
... I can say that is an ND bar because it has a relatively narrow spread with an up close, on volume less than the preceding 7 bars.
Whilst I do not want to get into a fight over nomenclature, I would not call it a No Demand. I would call it a "Hidden Test" that fails.

Quoting rbumbalough
.... Note that nothing is noted about where the low may be relative to other recent past bars....
Th short answer is this. Do you believe that Tests/No Supply bars are the oppostie of No Demands? If you do, then look at the definiton given. No Demands can close lower whilst making a higher high. The opposite of that would be closing up and making a lower low. Well the opposite is a Test/No Supply. Therefore a No Demand can make a lower low.

The long answer will be in a future post........
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #22,097
  • Oct 20, 2011 10:30am Oct 20, 2011 10:30am
Quoting s7c
hi, thinkorswim seems they have a pretty decent vol and it's free, but more reliable it will be a futures broker which is not altering the vol like infinity, mirus, pfg...i trade options on crude
Vin.Sin, There's only one source for crude/CL volume data, and it comes from the CME. Any futures broker should give the exact volume - via a decent datafeed - and because of the relatively low amount of volume data, nothing should get dropped in any feed. There are various contracts for crude (December, November) - it is best to merge the volume data for each moment in time for all active contracts, while it displays the price for the current/prominent contract (currently December). While the Thinkorswim demo is eternally free, as a broker, they are quickly going down the tubes for many reasons.

BTW, any altering of volume is going to be through various MT4 brokers, or any outfit that gives you fractional purchase ability - I'm not sure how they do that, but the prices are definitely altered there, and I would thus have no idea how volume is being parsed.

The brand name brokers you mention are excellent providers; I might throw http://www.ampfutures.com into the list as well.
  • #22,098
  • Oct 20, 2011 10:30am Oct 20, 2011 10:30am
This is a beautiful example I wanted to share. It actually deals with an issue brought up in a previous post concerning tests.

Take a look at the chart below:

A. Very Wide Spread down bar closing in the middle of its range on Ultra High Volume. This is Stopping Volume.

The beauty is what comes next.......

B. The Ultra High Volume on the previous interval is immediately Tested. We see a narrow range down bar that closes near its high on volume less than the previous two intervals.

However, whilst the volume is less than the previous two, it is still pretty high. Note that it is into the salmon colored area.

C. This is a Shake Out and to be expected. Why? Because we can expect that the high volume on the test will be revisited. A market can raise on a high volume test but usually not very far and more often than not, the market will come back to retest the area.

Note that the volume on this Shake Out is actually higher than the volume on the test. We know what that means. It means that the market will have to test this area again.

D. Bingo. A Narrow range up bar that makes a lower low and not a higher high than the previous bar on volume less than the previous two intervals. Not only is volume less than the previous two, but it is well below average.

Note that the low of the bar dips into the range of the Shake Out. Also note that whereas the Shake Out made a lower low than the first Test, this Hidden Test does not come close to making a lower low.

The question was asked about paying more attention to the Test if it is on a down bar. Again, I still do not know why Gavin wrote that. To me, what is of most import is the fact that the Test bar trades within the range of the Shake Out and there is an obvious decline in volume-both relative and actual.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ex 3.png Size: 79 KB
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #22,099
  • Oct 20, 2011 10:43am Oct 20, 2011 10:43am
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5...eteisysm15.png
Greetings, BeLikewater
  • #22,100
  • Oct 20, 2011 11:49am Oct 20, 2011 11:49am
Quoting BeLikeWater
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5...eteisysm15.png

Hey Belikewater,

If you check, the last ND had the high at the exact close of the buying climax, which was the trigger.

Hope it helps.

Tc.
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