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ECN & Market Maker survival guide

  • #21
  • Sep 27, 2011 2:10am Sep 27, 2011 2:10am
Quoting nubcake
of course.

benefits of market maket = the low entry fee. that's about it.

question : apart from natural market mechanics like slippage, have you found any unexpected downsides to being on ecn?
The entry is pretty low nowadays with ECN brokers.

Well, actually no. I haven't found none. You have to get used to the real market conditions thou. With MM's blowing smoke in your face, you might start thinking, that this is Forex. Just like f-ed up MT terminology, the MM mess with your head and you start thinking that it is the way it should be.
And people are misguided and undereducated about the market participants.

As for the slippage, it's a natural thing. While you press the button, the price already changes few times. So there is a slim chance you will be executed at spot price. But it's not that bad thou. You get filled at VWAP.
  • #22
  • Sep 27, 2011 2:20am Sep 27, 2011 2:20am
I'm guessing the majority of traders are people who got sucked into Forex by some IB. Went through their 'educational' 2 day material and started trading with some bucket-shop.

Another example, people stumble-upon Fx and choose a first education they find (babypips, trading for dummies or a broker 'From zero to hero' guide), then choose the first broker they find.

At the end, when they blow all the money they start bitching in FF, to the broker and everyone else.

Damn, people, FF is magnificent resource for learning. If you are here, you are one of the luckier traders, who has an opportunity to read and ask here.

Stop complaining in the MM threads, about how something is wrong. Something will always be wrong. They have this business model, where they get rich, after you loose all your money (one way or another).
They also have this technology, called MetaTrader, which brakes down if you even start breathing on it.

So everything will go wrong, but only for you.

So if you are trading with MM you should be fully aware of the consequences. Only the people who are aware of what they are doing, should trade with them (who have the balls to outsmart them).
  • #23
  • Sep 30, 2011 1:47am Sep 30, 2011 1:47am
When did saying to people they are doing something stupid ever prevented it?

But in full seriousness, switching to ECN broker was the best thing i ever did in my trading career.

As above mentioned, the only reason to trader with a non ECN broker, is if you know how to outsmart them. Which is a very rare occasion
May the Force be with You
  • #24
  • Sep 30, 2011 7:18am Sep 30, 2011 7:18am
Quoting Rader
Hey nubcake,

2 proud years.

Once you go ECN, you can't go back. (doesn't rhyme, but exactly like it happens

I have only one question, for everyone who is reading this post - Please share, in your opinion, the benefits of trading with a Market Maker?
hi, what broker do you use

thanks
  • #25
  • Oct 3, 2011 7:50am Oct 3, 2011 7:50am
Dukas and Fxpro
  • #26
  • Oct 3, 2011 6:16pm Oct 3, 2011 6:16pm
Quoting Rader
Dukas and Fxpro
How do we know and check are these two brokers a "REAL" ECN broker or they are just another MM.
~~ Happy Trading ~~
  • #27
  • Oct 4, 2011 12:16am Oct 4, 2011 12:16am
Quoting starbucks
How do we know and check are these two brokers a "REAL" ECN broker or they are just another MM.
1.Regulated
2.No MT platform
3.Level 2 price-feed
4.You pay commisions
5.Transparent

P.S. To ones who say - Oh 'this' broker has MT4 and he is ECN - FU. If an ECN broker has MT (i will repeat myself) he is a whore.
  • #28
  • Oct 4, 2011 12:40am Oct 4, 2011 12:40am
Quoting Rader
1.Regulated
2.No MT platform
3.Level 2 price-feed
4.You pay commisions
5.Transparent

P.S. To ones who say - Oh 'this' broker has MT4 and he is ECN - FU. If an ECN broker has MT (i will repeat myself) he is a whore.
1.Regulated - see how many regulated brokers got fined and more
2.No MT platform - they have it as many demand it and even if they dont what makes you think their private built platform is clean?
3.Level 2 price-feed
4.You pay commisions - you obviously never heard of ECN style etc, educate yourself
5.Transparent - oh sure who isnt
  • #29
  • Oct 4, 2011 12:41am Oct 4, 2011 12:41am
Quoting Rader
1.Regulated
2.No MT platform
3.Level 2 price-feed
4.You pay commisions
5.Transparent

P.S. To ones who say - Oh 'this' broker has MT4 and he is ECN - FU. If an ECN broker has MT (i will repeat myself) he is a whore.
Hi Rader,
Thanks for your reply. Allow me to ask a naive question, what is "Level 2 price-feed" and "Transparent" means what ?

Do you think MF Gloabl is an ECN broker and are they a reliable broker ?
~~ Happy Trading ~~
  • #30
  • Oct 4, 2011 1:42am Oct 4, 2011 1:42am
Quoting Hedge212
1.Regulated - see how many regulated brokers got fined and more
2.No MT platform - they have it as many demand it and even if they dont what makes you think their private built platform is clean?
3.Level 2 price-feed
4.You pay commissions - you obviously never heard of ECN style etc, educate yourself
5.Transparent - oh sure who isnt
ECN style? Is it related to doggy-style?

Anyway, for you i have another solution: best way to find out if a broker is an ECN before you open a new account - you should go and read every contract between the broker and banks, also speak with their legal department, accounting and request the CFO come to your house for dinner and leave his first born child as hostage until your first trade is executed.

Or you can check 1-5 brokers, having in mind what i wrote before and just have a 90% chance that the broker is ECN.

You can never be 100% sure, unless you work in that company yourself.

As for people requesting for MT4 - i request you punch yourself in the face! Did you do it? No - because it's stupid. MT4 for ECN is just pure insanity IMHO.

As for regulation - see how many regulated brokers haven't been fined. Now which will you pick Regulated and fined; Regulated and un-fined; Unregulated?

Quoting starbucks
Hi Rader,
Thanks for your reply. Allow me to ask a naive question, what is "Level 2 price-feed" and "Transparent" means what ?
ECN network connects the broker with multiple financial institutions (mostly banks). Level 2 displays the orders placed in those banks expressed as volume at each available price.
Market makers cannot show level 2 because there is only two counter-parties - a client (you) and a broker (MM) trading between themselves. They do not connect traders to banks or other financial institutions.
In the ECN banks trader and other traders all see each others trades.

Transparancy - when broker publishes information about their profit, clients, liquidity providers, board of directors, locations etc. When a broker answers all your questions and you're not feeling like being f-ed over. When you are invited to their office, when they show their admin pannel to you, when you can really trust a broker. And so on

Quoting starbucks
Do you think MF Gloabl is an ECN broker and are they a reliable broker ?
I'm here not to judge and rate brokers. Nor am i to say who is 'REAL ECN' and who is not. You can only judge by your personal experience and your gut.
  • #31
  • Oct 4, 2011 2:29am Oct 4, 2011 2:29am
whats your take on boston tech?

you seem to know lots on this topic, they are not a broker but you should know why im asking this
  • #32
  • Oct 4, 2011 3:47am Oct 4, 2011 3:47am
Developed 'Virtual dealer' plugin. Developed MT4 bridge to ECN (i think they were the first).

Fast growing company, lot's of cash flowing in. Basically they provide a 'complete makeover' from MM to ECN.

IMHO their technology blows. Unstable. And unstable because MT4 and its components are the weakest link. It's not meant to be ECN, but they made it happen and it's not perfect. One more thing, the bridge shouldn't have been developed by a third party in the first place.

What they do, is provide market makers with more possibilities to get inside your pocket. Poor MT4 is on life support after their done with it. Check out their 'Solutions' section in their website. You'll understand what i mean.
They take a piece of s.... and cover it with even more s.... And what you get in the end? Yeah, you got it right
  • #33
  • Oct 4, 2011 4:12am Oct 4, 2011 4:12am
Quoting Rader
Developed 'Virtual dealer' plugin. Developed MT4 bridge to ECN (i think they were the first).

Fast growing company, lot's of cash flowing in. Basically they provide a 'complete makeover' from MM to ECN.

IMHO their technology blows. Unstable. And unstable because MT4 and its components are the weakest link. It's not meant to be ECN, but they made it happen and it's not perfect. One more thing, the bridge shouldn't have been developed by a third party in the first place.

What they do, is provide market makers with more possibilities to...
Ok well ts no secret what the plugin and manager allow you to do, you can easily switch the client from ecn to dd etc, but I know that is the case with the back end of other platforms too.

I am ready to pay extra spread, ready to pay commissions, I dont care, I just need a honest company that will keep the deal whereas its ECNSTP and not have a reason to tempt them to freeze the system, play the re-quote game etc.

Boston tech provides their platform by the way (mt4) to citi, fxcm etc

I trade with large amounts of money, but far too small to be able to get accounts with prime brokers, I had an account with a broker and after making good money they started giving me a hard time with withdrawals, ended up needed to sue them for my money in order to get it, my point is I understand there is more to trading than spreads and if the broker isnt honest it dont matter what platform he uses, if he is honest mt4 does not matter!
  • #34
  • Oct 4, 2011 4:17am Oct 4, 2011 4:17am
Hey if you buy a gun, it's a bigger chance that you will shoot someone. The same with MT4.

The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
OSCAR WILDE, The Picture of Dorian Gray

Cool quote, right? But yes, i know what you mean. Everyone here is in for the look out of one. I'm happy with my brokers. I have no use to keep on searching.


  • #35
  • Oct 4, 2011 4:25am Oct 4, 2011 4:25am
Quote
So what is holding all traders from switching to ECN brokers? The lack of basic knowledge. They are undereducated about the brokers and this produces the imaginary disadvantages. Moreover, traders are accustomed to Market Makers, switching one for another, expecting they will find the best one. But, as sad as it may be – they won’t. It becomes clear, when you realize how Market Makers function. I adore a simple and plain explanation about MMs and ECNs. Market Maker is just like a casino, you gamble versus the casino – sometimes you win, but...
Moreover, many market makers offer large deposit bonuses up to 50%. For the newbie traders, it sounds really great. ECN Brokers usually doesn't offer bonuses.

Regards,

Josef
  • #36
  • Last Post: Oct 4, 2011 5:38am Oct 4, 2011 5:38am
Quoting josef
Moreover, many market makers offer large deposit bonuses up to 50%. For the newbie traders, it sounds really great. ECN Brokers usually doesn't offer bonuses.

Regards,

Josef
ever see all the videos gft put out saying ecn and market makers and all are pretty much BS (they dont say it in those words but thats the sum of it)

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