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trading and spiritual journey...

  • #21
  • Sep 8, 2011 9:29am Sep 8, 2011 9:29am
Quoting Daytrader50
As a trader you contribute nothing to the world. If you want to believe the hype about how we add market liquidity, go right ahead. Im sure the Forex and equity mkts need more traders desperately or they will fold, right? So, to me, the beauty of this game is to share the experience with a room or at least a small group of other traders and build each other up. And then, unless you are a total ass, give 5 or 10% of what you make away to people who have nothing, or get a fellow trader who needs a stake started. Contribute something! Give something...

I read your post many times... had many angles to your thoughts...

I agree we might not be contributing anything to society i agree on that with being FX people but but we can contribute with the money we earn from this...

About ur spiritual defination i would say go for it....make some brotherood...

But what this thread is about how this alone times brings the real self in front of you....i know many people who have grown old but havent listened one time themselves clearly... in trading u have to listen to yourself and then if you stick long ago you have to confront your worst nightmares adn take them head on....


Rest brother i hope
While we are growing old i hope we all grow UP as well

V
  • #22
  • Sep 8, 2011 4:28pm Sep 8, 2011 4:28pm
The only way to silence the internal dialogue is to use intent.

"The internal dialogue is what grounds us. The world is such and such or so and so, only because we talk to ourselves about its being such and such or so and so. The passageway into the world of sorcerers opens up after the warrior has learned to shut off the internal dialogue.

"To change our idea of the world is the crux of sorcery, and stopping the internal dialogue is the only way to accomplish it. The rest is just padding. Nothing of what we do, with the exception of stopping the internal dialogue, can by itself change anything in us, or in our idea of the world."

 "Whenever the internal dialogue stops, the world collapses and extraordinary facets of ourselves surface, as though they had been kept heavily guarded by our words. You are like you are, because you tell yourself that you are that way."

"We are luminous beings. We are perceivers. We are an awareness; we are not objects; we have no solidity. We are boundless. The world of objects and solidity is a way of making our passage on earth convenient. It is only a description that was created to help us. We, or rather our reason , forget that the description is only a description and thus we entrap the totality of ourselves in a vicious circle from which we rarely emerge in our lifetime.
We are perceivers. The world that we perceive, though, was created by a description that was told to us since the moment we were born.
We, the luminous beings, are born with two rings of power, but we use only one to create the world. That ring, which is hooked very soon after we are born, is reason , and its companion is talking. Between the two they concoct and maintain the world. So, in essence, the world that your reason wants to sustain is the world created by a description and its dogmatic and inviolable rules, which the reason learns to accept and defend.
The secret of the luminous beings is that they have another ring of power which is never used, the will . The trick of the sorcerer is the same trick of the average man. Both have a description; one, the average man, upholds it with his reason ; the other, the sorcerer, upholds it with his will . Both descriptions have their rules and the rules are perceivable, but the advantage of the sorcerer is that will is more engulfing than reason . You must learn to let yourself perceive whether the description is upheld by your reason or by your will . That is the only way for you to use your daily world as a challenge and a vehicle to accumulate enough personal power in order to get to the totality of yourself."

http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/
  • #23
  • Sep 8, 2011 9:23pm Sep 8, 2011 9:23pm
a friend referred me to this thread. its good to see that others are seeing this journey as a way to know yourself. i think i read i am that while in college and has been pulled onto the path to truely know the truth. i started day trading full time 3 years ago. i'm about BE right now and i know my problem is not reading the market or trading system. my problem is the thoughts that creates the resistance to flowing with the market and properly executing.

for example, when i know a good area is hit and entry signal is about to trigger, i'd have thoughts like "what if i'm early", "what if i'm late", "what if it don't work", etc. these thoughts then cause "ME" to fuck up on execution. when there's a seeing of this, without resisting the thoughts from a pure awareness then the thoughts and emotions dissolve and execution is flawless. when awareness is not caught in delusion, it can flow with the market bc feels like it flows as one with the market. no thoughts, yet perfect knowledge.

the way that can be told is not the true way... this has been the most difficult journey in my life and i wouldn't want to exchange it for anything else. a good resource for me has been a spiritual teacher named Adyashanti. Hope this helps someone out there... This journey is lonely and the end seems never possible.

Cheers
J
  • #24
  • Sep 8, 2011 9:32pm Sep 8, 2011 9:32pm
trading has turned me into a materialistic human being. Maybe i was already one but trading just brought that trait to the forefront.

Trading also have made me into a selfish person. and I also become angry quickly.

So trading pretty much brought out all the bad traits.
  • #25
  • Sep 8, 2011 9:41pm Sep 8, 2011 9:41pm
Quoting hilmy83
trading has turned me into a materialistic human being. Maybe i was already one but trading just brought that trait to the forefront.

Trading also have made me into a selfish person. and I also become angry quickly.

So trading pretty much brought out all the bad traits.
Your honesty is very much appreciated. How is trading doing?

mla
"The Heart is the hub of all dances; go there and chill out"
  • #26
  • Sep 9, 2011 9:29am Sep 9, 2011 9:29am
Quoting jfw215
a friend referred me to this thread. its good to see that others are seeing this journey as a way to know yourself. i think i read i am that while in college and has been pulled onto the path to truely know the truth. i started day trading full time 3 years ago. i'm about BE right now and i know my problem is not reading the market or trading system. my problem is the thoughts that creates the resistance to flowing with the market and properly executing.

[u][b]for example, when i know a good area is hit and entry signal is about to trigger,...
J
I exactly know and was there what you are saying...
Time for you to read this book...again it will show you path ..the work you need to do..

http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Win-Ps.../dp/0471248428

V
  • #27
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:25am Sep 9, 2011 11:25am
Quoting indianguyinny24
J
I exactly know and was there what you are saying...
Time for you to read this book...again it will show you path ..the work you need to do..

http://www.amazon.com/Trading-Win-Ps.../dp/0471248428

V
outdated no?
  • #28
  • Sep 9, 2011 11:41am Sep 9, 2011 11:41am
Quoting EmptyEterniT
outdated no?
u must be kidding....

is working out outdated???

V
  • #29
  • Sep 10, 2011 9:33am Sep 10, 2011 9:33am
Quoting indianguyinny24
u must be kidding....

is working out outdated???

V
Depends on the type of exercise your proposing, crunches hurt your back more than they flatten your belly, do the plank position;-)
  • #30
  • Edited 12:17pm Sep 10, 2011 12:10pm | Edited 12:17pm
Hi indianguyinny24,
i have the following realization which i would very much like to share:

1) In trading, the principles to success can be the same for everyone, but there can be many forms of expressions to these principles. Everyone has a form of expression that works for them. This applies to other endeavours in life.

2) With para 1 in mind, i learnt to respect the expressions of everybody. There are infinite ways to make trading works. While someone's method/expression may not be inline with you, it may or can work for him. To have any meaningful form of discussions, it would be better to discuss one's understanding of the success principles instead of it's expressions, which often leads to war.

3) Do not be bounded by other's limitation or to bound others with your limitations. When i started in trading, i see so many people telling others what is a "reasonable" amount of money to earn in trading which often left me puzzled. What i had in mind is you can earn as much money as your skill level allows you to. Eventually i find myself doing better then what they termed "reasonable" , i feel glad i followed my personal belief.
  • #31
  • Sep 10, 2011 4:48pm Sep 10, 2011 4:48pm
Quoting Rand Yap
Hi indianguyinny24,
i have the following realization which i would very much like to share:

1) In trading, the principles to success can be the same for everyone, but there can be many forms of expressions to these principles. Everyone has a form of expression that works for them. This applies to other endeavours in life.

2) With para 1 in mind, i learnt to respect the expressions of everybody. There are infinite ways to make trading works. While someone's method/expression may not be inline with you, it may or can work for him. To...
Wise man

mla
"The Heart is the hub of all dances; go there and chill out"
  • #32
  • Sep 10, 2011 8:29pm Sep 10, 2011 8:29pm
Quoting Daytrader50
As a trader you contribute nothing to the world. If you want to believe the hype about how we add market liquidity, go right ahead. Im sure the Forex and equity mkts need more traders desperately or they will fold, right? So, to me, the beauty of this game is to share the experience with a room or at least a small group of other traders and build each other up. And then, unless you are a total ass, give 5 or 10% of what you make away to people who have nothing, or get a fellow trader who needs a stake started. Contribute something! Give something...
Finding a bunch of like-minded trading buddies. Priceless.

While it has always been in my mind if traders do add any value to the society, i too cannot find any of such values related to the direct act of trading. Indirectly, yes, plentiful. The time and financial freedom trading can create, allows you to contribute more to the society then most other work allows you to. This is another beauty i find in trading.

On the contrary, we can have people holding the job of a policeman which is generally viewed as contributing, yet committing the most atrocious crime sanyone can think of. Contributing or not, more of depends on the person then the nature what he does.

In fact if one were to step back and look all forms of making a living on a macroscopic view, in terms of the transference of risk and wealth, or in terms of wealth proportional to difficulty level of the job. One can't help to think that whether trading contributes anything or not doesn't matters anymore.
  • #33
  • Sep 10, 2011 9:23pm Sep 10, 2011 9:23pm
Quoting Rand Yap
Hi indianguyinny24,
i have the following realization which i would very much like to share:

1) In trading, the principles to success can be the same for everyone, but there can be many forms of expressions to these principles. Everyone has a form of expression that works for them. This applies to other endeavours in life.

2) With para 1 in mind, i learnt to respect the expressions of everybody. There are infinite ways to make trading works. While someone's method/expression may not be inline with you, it may or can work for him. To...

Yes my friend this is so true...

Trading show you real SELF nothing more i can say

V
  • #34
  • Sep 10, 2011 10:23pm Sep 10, 2011 10:23pm
Quoting Daytrader50
This is why I am trying to get 4-6 serious guys of all ages to join together and get an office (be committed to move anywhere in the USA!) and form a brotherhood, a family of guys that just learn from each other and enjoy talking trading and caring about each other as friends. Now thats spiritual!!!
Yeah, this is my dream too.

I would love to set up an office or just something that will get me out of my room...

I was thinking you can open an office and simply rent out the desk space, Traders would be most welcome, but simply anyone who is running a solo kind of business and just wants some community.

Sadly for you Im in Australia and only 20. Not really turning a profit yet but definitely on my way. I am very future focussed and Know that I dont want to be stuck solo trading alone one day.

I really want to help the community as well. Hopefully trading does not take up all my time, even if it is 8 hours a day thats less than most jobs I would get into.

Its hard to actually find traders in the real world, People look at me a bit strangely when I tell them what I want to do.
Ask me again when I know what I'm talking about.
  • #35
  • Sep 10, 2011 11:09pm Sep 10, 2011 11:09pm
Quoting hilmy83
trading has turned me into a materialistic human being. Maybe i was already one but trading just brought that trait to the forefront.

Trading also have made me into a selfish person. and I also become angry quickly.

So trading pretty much brought out all the bad traits.
Trading hasn't altered my political views at all. I am a Marxist and view capitalism as not the best mode for achieving high civilisation as a species. That is an objective view of how we should order ourselves as a global species. However, whilst we live in capitalism (and no, I do not think that we can force socio-economic evolution...it has to be natural which is the message behind the dialectical theory that Marx took from Hegel) it is incumbent on us to live with our heads, not our emotions, and that means ensuring that you and your loved ones do as well as possible. The cosmos is dispassionate. It cares not a whit for it's state. Evolution is the only arbiter and that is natural. It cannot be forced, whether it be spiritual or material.
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
  • #36
  • Sep 11, 2011 10:10am Sep 11, 2011 10:10am
Quoting traider
Trading hasn't altered my political views at all. I am a Marxist and view capitalism as not the best mode for achieving high civilisation as a species. That is an objective view of how we should order ourselves as a global species. However, whilst we live in capitalism (and no, I do not think that we can force socio-economic evolution...it has to be natural which is the message behind the dialectical theory that Marx took from Hegel) it is incumbent on us to live with our heads, not our emotions, and that means ensuring that you and your loved ones...

Everytime I talk to a Marxist, when asked why do you hate Capitalism, they simply just point to our current market state to illustrate their claim of it not working.

I always retort and remind Marxists, that our current state is NOT capitalism, it is Fascism, its a marriage between the corporations and the state. Capitalism hasn't been around for about 60 years now, and it was building countries and motivate countless generations until....

Central Bankers who seeing this great machine, infiltrated the media and government with their cronies, which allowed Fascism to bloom and take ahold via the progressive agenda which includes both liberals and neoconservatives (both sides).

We have not had a free currency, in fact all fiat currrencies fail in the end. If we had a free currency, no corporate subsidies or red tape (but with prosecutorial consumer offenses) you would have the market decide via competition and efficiency the winners and the losers, spurring growth only seen in the previous Industrial Age of America.

Many marxists are marxists because they don't understand what we have had in the last half century is not capitalism. they fight a battle with a shadow that is cast by something more sinister. The distraction divides the people against themselves instead of focusing it upon the State and its over reaches.

In the beginning of America's political history it was first Republican vs Democrat as the main dividing political mindset. It morphed into Communist vs Capitalist. Next was the Progressive vs Conservative morphology, which is dying today. The latest political dichotomy will be Statists vs Libertarians.

With the inception of technology growing at an exponential rate, the bonding of foreign lands and cultures are happening at an unprecidented speed. Governments will fall into each other as a reaction to control the growth of the people's freedom movement illustrated by the enlightenment coming upon us. This great event we are in the middle of will force two sides to materialize, those that will submit and lay down to be a part of the State, and those that rebel and endorse freedoms inherent berefit of the State, more Libertarian minded individuals.

This is currently playing out within the war between the two factions of the Republican party. The old establishment neoconservative GOP, and the new tea-party Old Guard Republicans (more like the Founding Fathers).

There is a revolution happening all over the world, the people are waking up, the elites are scrambling and reacting with over-reaching force that is only provoking the wrath of the people.

Which will you be? A Statist or a Libertarian?
  • #37
  • Last Post: Edited 2:34pm Sep 11, 2011 2:04pm | Edited 2:34pm
I wasn't trying to generate a political debate, simply trying to make the point that there is no journey in life, it just is. Anyway, I will briefly reply to you and then I am done.

Marx's writings are an excellent analysis of capitalism and he admired the capitalist immensly as a force for change for the better and creativity, However like the nobility of old, he noted that they too would become corrupt with their wealth, that capitalism itself would exhaust all potential for value accumulation and that a sort of natural evolution would occur, as you see all over nature when change occurs. Marxism has nothing to do with saving the babies in Africa or freeing up gays so as they can marry. That's a gross misunderstanding. If you want to be a good trader and understand the forces you play with, read Capital.

Edit: And he also predicted that globalism would be a facet of capitalism's rise (so a good understanding of Marxism cannot be accompanied by a belief in statism. The two are an oxymoron and any nationalist who claims to be a Marxist has not done his homework.), that it would be marked by cycles and that each cycle would be accompanied with a deeper crisis than the one before. The current crisis will give way to another even more dynamic expansion, growth and the potential to vastly benefit from trading (which incidentally will become more volatile as capital transitions from investing to speculation.) We will not live to see change. That is at best, 5 to 6 decades ahead. He would not have approved of the Russian Revolution (nor any premature revolution, incidentally.)
The road to pipland is arduous and fraught with challenge.
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