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US Debt Ceiling Crisis Thread

  • #81
  • Aug 3, 2011 1:46am Aug 3, 2011 1:46am
Quoting Cypr3ss
What have we learned in 2,066 years?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

Cicero - 55 BC


I saw the post on anther thread(Posted by Udine), thought it was hilarious.

after 2000 year this shite is...
Yeah thats what im saying. People normally have little knowledge of this, otherwise they would just look around and say "Oh another Rome. Didnt that sort of crumble to dust?"
My signature is: "Classified".
  • #82
  • Aug 3, 2011 4:39am Aug 3, 2011 4:39am
Quoting yaed
Yeah sort of. But you cant flush em out with votes because the shit is all over. The corps are running the politicians right? I think the US people is pretty far away from flushing without votes. But on the other hand when a couple of million people start getting hungry for a week or so, i think those people, at least some of them are going to load up their 9 mm and their 7.62 mm and their .45".

Like Celente says: When people have nothing left to loose, they loose it.

yeah it's like sending Obama a message in the form of kicking Dems to the curb in the last election... but with recent debacle the ones voted in aren't much better.

Before we voted Dems out it was like having a fat kid guard the ice cream cooler, then after we catch his ass eating all the ice cream we remove him and put in someone who's been heavy before and the temptation is just to great to "not" have a good helping of ice cream.

The republicans have a point about cutting spending but they lack the power needed to make the tough choice of retiring the Bush tax cuts. Bush was responsible for at least $5 Trillion of the dept IMHO.... but yet the Republicans have amnesia about any of that.

Obama far from perfect inherited a "mess" of biblical proportions and to say he's responsible for more than about $2 Trillion isn't all that fair... but politics are never about being fair... it's usually the slime campaign that wins make the guy look bad put dirt on him. etc.

It seems the republicans have a harder time of accepting defeat then the dems do and it's likely the special interest groups tied to them because there is big money behind them and that's how we got into this mess.

It does nothing to tax without cutting spending, to raise the debt without cutting... but hard choices better be made soon without the debt coming down USA is in deep cacca. It will make 2008 meltdown look like a sneeze.
  • #83
  • Aug 3, 2011 4:52am Aug 3, 2011 4:52am
I am happy that this problem has solved, it is really funny, American economic can be crumpled by 100 people, politics sometimes make my laughing)They will come back to this problem next year, i hope we will be prepared to this again!
Okay, let's have fun...
  • #84
  • Aug 3, 2011 4:24pm Aug 3, 2011 4:24pm
Quoting St.Sarah
I am happy that this problem has solved, it is really funny, American economic can be crumpled by 100 people, politics sometimes make my laughing)They will come back to this problem next year, i hope we will be prepared to this again!
I realy hope we will have a next year.........
The Chonchy
  • #85
  • Aug 3, 2011 6:19pm Aug 3, 2011 6:19pm
Quoting St.Sarah
I am happy that this problem has solved, it is really funny, American economic can be crumpled by 100 people, politics sometimes make my laughing)They will come back to this problem next year, i hope we will be prepared to this again!
Well we got til 2013 unless we go another rampant spending spree... ya just never know these days money runs thru govmint hands like water.

Of course the 2012 elections will provide plenty of amusement and market moves before then. We'll see if the repubs can steal another election...freeze up a few voter machines and close down poor area voting booths. Then of course there's always the hanging chad.

I say if it comes down to that put them both in a UFC ring and who ever can walk away wins.

<markets
<foreigners
<americans
<china
  • #86
  • Aug 3, 2011 7:17pm Aug 3, 2011 7:17pm
Quoting St.Sarah
I am happy that this problem has solved, it is really funny, American economic can be crumpled by 100 people, politics sometimes make my laughing)They will come back to this problem next year, i hope we will be prepared to this again!


What makes it more fantastic is the some of those folks (core tea praters) have declared personnel bankruptcy in the past. That being the case why should people with that type of track record hold the such power over financial issues.

Americans voter can be so dumb.
  • #87
  • Aug 3, 2011 7:30pm Aug 3, 2011 7:30pm
cesarnc,

This is all you had to say.

quote:

" Politicians are the problem."

  • #88
  • Aug 4, 2011 7:20am Aug 4, 2011 7:20am
Quoting Cypr3ss
What makes it more fantastic is the some of those folks (core tea praters) have declared personnel bankruptcy in the past. That being the case why should people with that type of track record hold the such power over financial issues.

Americans voter can be so dumb.

Probably cuz the other 2 remnants have put us $14 Trillion in the hole... Over $8 Trillion of this since GWB took office.

In roughly 10 years we burned thru $8 Trillion when the other 6 Trillion took over 200 years... When something is broken a good idea might be to try to fix it.

Not that tea baggers hold much promise mind you.
  • #89
  • Aug 5, 2011 8:22am Aug 5, 2011 8:22am
Quoting pip_seeker
Probably cuz the other 2 remnants have put us $14 Trillion in the hole... Over $8 Trillion of this since GWB took office.

In roughly 10 years we burned thru $8 Trillion when the other 6 Trillion took over 200 years... When something is broken a good idea might be to try to fix it.

Not that tea baggers hold much promise mind you.
How convenient you leave out the very costly 9/11 strike on our Commercial Center not to mention the worst hurricane in decades. Good grief you guys are so easy to take apart it is laughable. Then this administration gives all our cash to losing banks and part of the auto industry. How do ya like the 14m unemployed. The real unemployment rate is 17%. The Socialists took an awful beating from the Tea Party last November. Another one coming soon. Most laughed at that uprising at that Harbor long ago. I can't write anymore I'm cramping from laughing.
  • #90
  • Aug 5, 2011 8:27am Aug 5, 2011 8:27am
Quoting pip_seeker
Well we got til 2013 unless we go another rampant spending spree... ya just never know these days money runs thru govmint hands like water.

Of course the 2012 elections will provide plenty of amusement and market moves before then. We'll see if the repubs can steal another election...freeze up a few voter machines and close down poor area voting booths. Then of course there's always the hanging chad.

[size=3]I say if it comes down to that put them both in a UFC ring and who ever...
You make it sound like just a couple administrations are the cause of all this. It has been going on for decades and the American People were asleep at the switch. Check your mirror.
  • #91
  • Aug 5, 2011 11:48am Aug 5, 2011 11:48am
Anyone see the coincidence that the worries about the economy has reared it head again...and all of a sudden Hilarious Clinton is on national tv talking about syria? here comes our next war lads..


pip_seeker while i agree that we are burning thru money a lot faster than before, i think comparing dollars spent pre-Obama to post-Obama is more politically gimmicking that anything else. It more of the sensationalism statements that poloticos spout to convince those dumb Americans i was speaking about earlier.

could be worst folks ...... at least we don't have a common currency to top it off...aka the eur
  • #92
  • Aug 5, 2011 5:39pm Aug 5, 2011 5:39pm
Quoting Cypr3ss
What makes it more fantastic is the some of those folks (core tea praters) have declared personnel bankruptcy in the past. That being the case why should people with that type of track record hold the such power over financial issues.
Ya know who else filed for personal bankruptcy?

Abraham Lincoln (16th US President and the face of the $5 bill)
Thomas Jefferson (3rd US president, Founding Father, and the face of the $2 bill))
Ulysses S. Grant (18th US President and face of the $50 bill)
William McKinley (25th President and face of the $500 bill)
Thomas Paine (Founding Father whos actions helped fund the american revolution)
Henry Ford (Who built the Ford Motor Company)
Walt Dinsey(of Mickey Mouse fame)

All of these people filed for bankruptcy and then went on to do phenominally important things.

Sometimes thats what it takes for people to learn the value of money and the risks of excessive debt.

Maybe instead of criticising them for going bankrupt, you should learn something from the wisdom of their experience.
  • #93
  • Aug 5, 2011 6:32pm Aug 5, 2011 6:32pm
Quoting dforant1
You make it sound like just a couple administrations are the cause of all this. It has been going on for decades and the American People were asleep at the switch. Check your mirror.

right americans just sit back and actually let this stuff happen because of the high standard of living. Take that away and people will get restless, but still not give a shit. Once they loose all their money they might get a bit more restless, but still not give a shit. Once hyperinflation hits after QEn, and they have lost everything in the downturn, maybe then theyll care. The future is not bright....im amazed at the mental numbness of the american public
  • #94
  • Aug 5, 2011 6:36pm Aug 5, 2011 6:36pm
Quoting Darkstar
Ya know who else filed for personal bankruptcy?

Abraham Lincoln (16th US President and the face of the $5 bill)
Thomas Jefferson (3rd US president, Founding Father, and the face of the $2 bill))
Ulysses S. Grant (18th US President and face of the $50 bill)
William McKinley (25th President and face of the $500 bill)
Thomas Paine (Founding Father whos actions helped fund the american revolution)
Henry Ford (Who built the Ford Motor Company)
Walt Dinsey(of Mickey Mouse fame)

All of these people filed for bankruptcy and then went on to do phenominally...
You forgot Jesse Livermore. Oh, actually he's not a good guy, he crashed the stock market a few times.
  • #95
  • Aug 5, 2011 7:43pm Aug 5, 2011 7:43pm
If we get out of this mess without WWIII we will be very fortunate. Jim Rodgers was saying a while back that some major power people are pushing for a war.

Then again....Jim Rodgers is like a sear. Everything he says comes true. Sometimes I believe he's working for the dark side. (and he's an arrogant one) It seems's like they like to announce, in code, their intentions so they can laugh at the little people when it happens.

When he say's I'm buying commodities. It means you better buy commodities. He says, I'm not selling my physical gold even though it's dropped 200.00. Guess what...gold skyrockets a bit later. He said buy a farm. Why? I think it's more then just commodities on that one.

Has anyone noticed the more viscous spikes we been getting lately. It's like they don't care if the newby's see it. These big bankers are evil.

It's all intentional. They're afraid of the tea party. That's why I like 'em. There's really no leader. You can't take 'em out. You just have to try and discredit them. They're not right about everything but they sure as hell are right about what to do with the debt. Either pay it off and cut spending or default. This scares the hell out of the bankers. A third grader can see that. No loans, no make money. No collateral, no get nothin'! My question is....what's in the fine print. They're not stupid. The IMF now owns Greece. Imagine that. Those people are so violent demonstrating. Can you blame them? They lived beyond their means but the bankers grabbed em' by the rocks....under the table. With intent. Just like us. Anybody really think Goldman sucks is doing things randomly?

Thomas Jefferson said, "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

In 1832, Andrew Jackson said, "Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out."

Somebody tried to assasinate him....duh!!!
  • #96
  • Edited 9:16pm Aug 5, 2011 8:57pm | Edited 9:16pm
Quoting Darkstar
Ya know who else filed for personal bankruptcy?

Abraham Lincoln (16th US President and the face of the $5 bill)
Thomas Jefferson (3rd US president, Founding Father, and the face of the $2 bill))
Ulysses S. Grant (18th US President and face of the $50 bill)
William McKinley (25th President and face of the $500 bill)
Thomas Paine (Founding Father whos actions helped fund the american revolution)
Henry Ford (Who built the Ford Motor Company)
Walt Dinsey(of Mickey Mouse fame)

All of these people filed for bankruptcy and then went on to do phenominally...
nice trivia ... but today economy can no way be compared to when those president went bankrupt ....dude they were from the 19th century. Walt Disney was in 1919, henry ford was in 1903...... you really want to compare those folks to an econimy that is now more than 100 years ago?

surviving in today economy is a total different kettle of fish. all the tea pissants are proving is that the rich really have no clue as to the the poor man state....it's really easy to push for austerity when you have money. they have nothin to teach other that to prove that american voters are easily lead.......lets see how they fare in 2012.

the only thing they have really taught anyone is that the world could go up in flames as far as they are concerned...once they feel they are right they don't care about other...it's their way only...no compromise, that goodness the power brokers in the reps stepped in ....tea preggers remind me more of those ultra conservative right wing groups that hold secret meetings in basements with the picture of hilter hanging on the walls.
  • #97
  • Aug 5, 2011 11:14pm Aug 5, 2011 11:14pm
Quoting Cypr3ss
nice trivia ... but today economy can no way be compared to when those president went bankrupt ....dude they were from the 19th century. Walt Disney was in 1919, henry ford was in 1903...... you really want to compare those folks to an econimy that is now more than 100 years ago?
The great thing about math is that it always has, and always will, work in precisely the same way. If you spend more then you earn, you have to borrow to do so. When the costs of your borrowing exceed your ability to service it, you go bankrupt. Whether your a man in the 19th century, or a country in the 21st, you cannot escape the simple reality that you must live within your means.

I don't much care about your opinion of the tea party, or their tactics. In truth, I don't much care about the tea party.

You made a patently ignorent statement about the financial credibility of individuals that have gone bankrupt. I showed you why your statement was ignorent. How you choose to rationalize your belief from this point forward is none of my concern.

Luck be with you.
  • #98
  • Edited 12:31am Aug 6, 2011 12:19am | Edited 12:31am
Quoting Darkstar
The great thing about math is that it always has, and always will, work in precisely the same way. If you spend more then you earn, you have to borrow to do so. When the costs of your borrowing exceed your ability to service it, you go bankrupt. Whether your a man in the 19th century, or a country in the 21st, you cannot escape the simple reality that you must live within your means.

I don't much care about your opinion of the tea party, or their tactics. In truth, I don't much care about the tea party.

You made a patently ignorent statement...
1.) This is finance, not maths you need to be clear on this...your simplification is just another tactic in vagueness.

2.) Your belief in applying a methodology to a complex task of governance of the financial affairs of the government again highlights a lack of understanding of the greater overall implication in financing and running a country.

3.) The fact that you see no problem following people who have a proven track record of failure is remarkable, you ratified this belief because some exceptional individuals 100 years ago broke the mold so to speak. Frankly I don't care about who went bankrupt then, i care about the now and weather or not i should put my faith in yokels who are taking a stance that can be ruinous to the country. If some idiot is prone to shooting themselves in the foot. i am not gonna give the idiot a gun.


4.) You say you do not like the tea packers but you views are classic tea packers

The fact that you support application of such a simplistic solution that will push a lot of folks over the poverty line shows that that you are indeed a card carrying member.... which is great, i guess you have money. no need to wish you luck

Tea Party idiots have almost brought us to failure because of wanting to score points in an election . For the first time ever S&P has drop our rating to AA ever. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

The fact that you chose to take the the statement personnel and be condescending in the aftermath is of little concern to me. Stupid comments from small minds are the least of my worries
  • #99
  • Aug 6, 2011 1:11am Aug 6, 2011 1:11am
You are blaming the tea party for 100 years of waste fraud and abuse?

You are saying that the system of massive borrowing and waste that cost Greece their country is the solution to the tea party idea of paying your bills before you borrow more?

You think the congressmen in Washington will ever stop wasting your money?

You think the tea party is the reason the S&P gave. That's really funny.

You think massive borrowing and spending will bring the poor above the poverty level? Give them jobs?

You think the basics of humanity are now different from 2000 years ago, 200 years ago....No one wants freebee's, people are kinder, gentler, more charitable. Greed is different, love different, different basic needs....food, housing, safety? So we've evolved as humans? Now we kill each other in a cleaner ways. With bombs that incinerate the body. I guess that's evolution? No body, no guilt. Nothing to rot in the field.

The human heart will not change. You may think your different. You're not. At the base.....humanity is the same everywhere in the world. I can tell you, people want the same basic things everywhere. And they want them for free if they can pull it off.

To prolong this mess is to hate your children and grandchildren. Push it off on them. We all need to suffer and start over. Default! If you can come up with your 130,000. to pay off the your part of the debt then maybe we can work something out. Otherwise....your arguement means nothing.

You want the safe life with no bill. That sounds just the fall of ancient Rome.

Be very afraid....it's coming even without the tea party. The political messiah's will make sure of that...they have for thousands of years. Just be glad that you'll probably not end up as a serf because of.....a tea party member.

You got lots of bark but no solutions. You keep putting your faith in the goldman types. They certainly have your best interest in mind. Forex proves that.

Default. You got no solution....Borrowing more is no solution. Until you can think one up....start the default.



Quoting Cypr3ss
1.) This is finance, not maths you need to be clear on this...your simplification is just another tactic in vagueness.

2.) Your belief in applying a methodology to a complex task of governance of the financial affairs of the government again highlights this belief.

3.) The fact that you see no problem following people who have a proven track record of failure is remarkable, you ratified this belief because some exceptional individuals 100 years ago broke the mold so to speak. Frankly I don't care about who went bankrupt then, i care about...
  • #100
  • Aug 6, 2011 2:02am Aug 6, 2011 2:02am
Quoting cugir321
Default. You got no solution....Borrowing more is no solution. Until you can think one up....start the default.
Are we even talk in the same language?????? where have i blamed the tea fuggers for the last 100 years?

The hard line approach to the the debt ceiling taken by the republicans in drawing it down to the wire when it was known in advance for 6 months created a situation of doubt that cause the panic. the debt ceiling was raised many times in the past with such furor now all of sudden it becomes the issue to weigh in on...why not be vehement when bush was raising it once every 2 months.

i hear lots of people talking about future and their children and not letting them deal with it....what you don't seem to understand is that there are people with children living in the now in this reality that these actions are going to affect them tomorrow and the day after. your default causes suffering now, but i guess you are the kinda of person to think you need to break a few eggs to make an omelet and you don't really care who get chewed up.

For some, it is very easy to say default default default ..... must be a really nice view from your neck of the woods. the bottom line is only those who think they can weather the storm will/would have advocated the default. The 13% who are already under the poverty line, the 9% who are unemployed, screw em i guess is what you are saying.

Ya'll need to know what is like to go hungry and the desperation of being poor, then you'll sing a different tune. Until then, you are only seeing half of the whole.

Makes no sense in even talking to people like you, what's the point...you don't care nor feel any consideration for you fellow man. Of the millions we feed thru outreach programs, all that goes out the door the minute we default....but hey, i know you weighed that and figured who gives a shit if a couple million people will go starving everyday, it the future you care about.

i may not have the answer but i know that talking a course of action that will lead our country into turmoil is not the way to go. did you not see how well spain and greece population responded? When tanks and water cannons are being used on our own people i hope you're still going default,default,default
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