US Debt Ceiling Crisis Thread

Looks like they came up with something.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43965836

Nikkei +2% at the news.

Dow Futures +175.

Looks like we'll live to die another day

It's like wrestling, everyone knows it's fake but still everyone reacts to the show.

nah.....could have been UFC.... not the WWF

[Source: email from Tim Shoemaker at Campaign For Liberty.]


With America's attention fixated on what's happening in Washington concerning the debt crisis, I wanted to make sure you knew that the Government Accountability Office (GAO) has released the results of its one-time, limited audit of the Federal Reserve System.

The revelations are sickening - so-called "money" tossed around like confetti to banksters, foreign banks, and favored corporations.

Before I go into detail about their findings, let me first thank you for all your efforts in support of a thorough audit of our nation's central bank. This isn't the full audit Ron Paul and Campaign for Liberty continue to push, but it is a first peek behind Ben Bernanke's curtain of secrecy.

This audit only happened because of our historic grassroots Audit the Fed movement.

Of course, Audit the Fed was always about achieving a complete, thorough audit. Audit the Fed was stymied at the last minute in the Senate last year, but the limited, one-time audit our efforts guaranteed has revealed a number of reasons for why we must not give up on a full audit.

Sixteen Trillion reasons, actually.

We have now learned that the Federal Reserve lent $16 trillion to both domestic and overseas financial institutions during the height of the financial crisis!

Let me rephrase that while the number sinks in - $16,000,000,000,000.

In less than three years.

From Dec. 1, 2007 - July 21, 2010, the Federal Reserve "created reserves in the banking system" (Bernanke slang for printing money) that exceeded not only the entire U.S. GDP for a year, but also the entire U.S. national debt that's accumulated over the past 224 years!

More than $3 trillion dollars were lent to overseas financial institutions in numerous countries, including in the U.K., Germany, and France.

In addition, we learned just how much the big banks who contributed heavily to the crisis were rewarded - including nearly $8 trillion to banks like Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Merill Lynch, and Bank of America.

In February 2009, Campaign for Liberty made Audit the Fed our top legislative priority for the 111th Congress... ...

Well as the headline says, thats what i intend to do in this post.

By "the turds" i mean the unelected fascists who run the US and the EU, not to mention Russia and China, and lets just put aside what they are saying that they are doing.

I dont know that you will agree with me here, but thats not the point and im not interested in agreeing with people. I am intersted in speaking my mind: There is the monetary economy and the physical economy. They are not really two different things, only two ways of perceiving whats going on, and in some sense they are both as real. But lets start from the beginning with saying something about what "economy" is.

People everywhere need some place to live, something to eat, something to drink. If that doesnt happen, people die. Also people normally want shelter from cold, electricity, medical aid, internet access, child care that kind of stuff. How it comes about that those things are distributed is what i here call "economy".

The "monetary economy" is the flow and placement of monetary means, meaning money, rupees, dollars, pounds, yens, euros all those paper bits and little numbers in the banks databases. Some of those monetary means is derivates, some is ownership of companies, some of it is cash, some of it is numbers tied to an account number owned by companies and people. But, like many people like Bill Still and the Zeitgeist people (nevermind these peoples views on other things) have explained money is debt, its created out of debt in the current monetary ecnomies. Some people in some parts ot the world has a lot, others has little.

The "physical economy" is the flow and placement of goods and services like food, water, electricity, healtcare, childcare and so on. Some people in some parts ot the world has a lot, others has little.

But then what has value? Well, monetary means is only as good as those physical goods and services that you can buy for those monetary means, and you cant buy something for monetary means that doesnt exist. However, if you buy a position on the Gold spot market, you dont really get the gold, like Leyland explained on Keisers "On the edge" this saturday.



Which means you can pay for something that doesnt exist, but since it doesnt exist you arent really buying something, you are just giving money away into the fiat system. Which in itself may seem illogical and strange, and i agree, it is. So in general, monetary means is ment to be used to pay for something that you buy and that you get and can eat or use in some way.

We started using monetary means because its very cumbersome to go around carrying huge sacks of potatoes, iron bars, beef that kind of stuff. Instead we just have little bits of paper in our pockets to exchange into stuff, and if all that was working out really great, everybody would have a smile on their face. As you all know, that shit is NOT working out very good for us the general population.

The reasons and all the historical tribulations and general insanity that led us to these events is manifold and truly complicated, distorted, misunderstood and lied about. So in these terms here that i put forward, the monetary economy is not functioning well in conjunction with the physical economy. In Egypt this was made clear quite early, and the same has happend in many other countries like Iceland, Ireland, Greece, the US and so on.

The monetary economy is ment to be sort of an overlay of the physical economy, and im not saying this as a theoretical standpoint from any sort of economist school, im saying thats just the way it is. I mean that the monetary means is ment to be able to direct who owns and uses physical goods and services. Why else would anyone want money if they cant buy something nice and physical for that money?

So to be sort of simple about it, the problem in the US, Egypt, Greece, Ireland and so on, is that the overlay of the monetary economy on top of the physical one isnt working out. People cant get the food, water, shelter, healthcare and so on that they seem to want and need. The problem is not technological or intellectual at its foundation, we know how to make a bunch of food, houses and how to take care of children and sick people. Its just that because the monetary and the physical economy is not working, people are not getting the food, the house, the childcare and the healthcare.

Yes and what do you make of all this in general?

Just what I already suspected... that the numbers the gubmint was giving us was 1/10 of the real payouts.... At Best

Our national dept now is too big and the only plan that the government insist is the Debt ceiling. I think it is a sure method for paying our debt in different countries. But as Democrats and Republicans struggle to balance the federal budget and come to an agreement regarding the debt ceiling, the threat of national debt default has many perplexed.

As of now, political wrangling over the national debt and the debt ceiling is delivering a message many Americans do not want to hear. The usual understanding states that China is the answer to the question of “Who owns The United States?”, and that default will set the United States too far behind. But Business Insider makes a point that China is not what several think it is. China takes its considerable share, but the true solution to the country that owns The United States rests in The United States itself. I found this here: Your financial upside-down cake: China does not own America


hope it will succeed.

There's a discussion about the 60 military bases the US maintain in 63 countries, of course a relic from the (good ol'days of the) Cold War.

The US Military spending is astounding for a country facing these kinds of crisis (debt, jobs, growth).

In a sense, one could calculate how many jobs are not created per missile.

So uuuuh... in some of the countries where they have one military base, they really have 0.952 military bases? Seems those numbers are backed by... crack?

LOL... maybe - just maybe - it was the other way around...

Now that the debt ceiling got its votes, time for a little fun out of it...

http://www.e-forwards.com/wp-content...ter-funny.jpeg

http://prezwho.com/wp-content/upload...te-600x411.png



http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-BrRGCOR1Nc/TS...ing%5B2%5D.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uu3B8VPTMP...bt_ceiling.jpg

http://theinvestmentinsight.files.wo..._greatest1.jpg

Th-th-th-th- that's all folks!

Yee Haw,

You can clearly see that this new pat em on the back deal, is just only a band-aid.

I still have yet to read much of any specifics about the deal, it just seems all they care to say about it is "we did it, now pat us on the back."

Bush Tax cuts? No, not a peep about that. I've heard about cuts in spending but the way the US govmint works is not in terms of "real dollars" but in terms of forward looking dollars. In other words they estimate based on what the future will bring.

In your house you have debt and you have regular daily expenses. To clear your debt you make some sacrifices in your daily expenses to pay down debt.

The govmint will rob peter to pay paul... oops we don't have enough money over here but hey look at all the money in Social Security... ok lets use that to pay this. Never a solution to spend your way out of trouble... but that is exactly what you get when you hire people to do something that can't balance their own check book.

Whether you like it or not... cutting spending and raising taxes is the only way out of this. It should be fair. Corps like GE who make billions should be paying their fair share. The Wallstreet club is primarily where the bulk of the evils lie in this country... in the end we will just likely add more complexity to the tax code, the rich find the loop holes, the middle class shrinks further into "modern day slavery" all to support the rich "wall street club elite".

It won't change until we revolt... stand up and flush each one these politicians who support this non-sense out. It may require repeated flushings.

Exactly what I think. There is a debate on whether of not raising taxes will prevent from job creation. I don't think so, but there is this debate.

Washington silver-taped the problem yesterday. There will be a "debt ceiling crisis" in a matter of months if nothing else is done. They say by year's end, the government should pop in with a spending cuts proposal. Let's wait and see.

As I said before, we lived to die another day.

Yep. Unfortunately, a "riot" outside the capitol won't have the same effect as a stock market meltdown. I've seen comments that only with a big panic in Wall Street this guys in DC will shake their asses. I agree.

Of course there is the election, but only 42% of US population participate. It's too little for such a huge country. An 80% participation flushing the old faces down the toilet would send a message.

So the debt ceiling has been increased again? This means more "printing money" or QE3 as it will be called. The US politicians and bankers can't agree on whether to tax the rich or not. One thing is for sure, higher taxes are not going to solve the USA's economic problems. Higher taxes will exacerbate the problems because the debt is now too high to service.

Let's not pretend. The only way out of this is hyperinflation and a new currency. Nobody is going to get paid. The Chinese know this and have started a Pan Asian Gold exchange, which deals real gold and not the pretend gold that the bankrupt European and American banks trade. In the meantime, poor old Japan, rocked by tsunami and earthquake, has the only currency anyone wants - in spite of everything. Oh, and Switzerland.

So the outcome will be a new currency. Look up hyperinflation. It happens exponentially, so we don't get much warning. By then, most of the wealthy will have bought land and gold, so that they can get their hands on the new currency in abundance and remain wealthy. For the rest it's going to be a very bumpy and painful ride.

The solution: When you ain't got any money you stop pretending you have money. Dig the ground, stop buying stuff, start making stuff and use what you have...

Remember that? Anyone?

I really couldn't care less about the economic future of this country.

All I care about is confirming that the USD will indeed continue its downward spiral against all major currencies so that that remains the long-term trend and I can continue selling USD/CAD and USD/JPY on upticks. I think this debt limit increase will go a long way in more or less ensuring that in the long run.

As far as the economic future of this country goes, you reap what you sow in this universe. So there's never any reason for sympathy or anything of the like. This nation is in the state that it's in because of arrogance, carelessness, and just plain foolishness and lack of wisdom and foresight of both the people and the government.

In true capitalist fashion, I can honestly say that as long as I get my piece of the pie in the end, the rest of the country can rot for all I care. I'm continue to use trading/investment as a means to an ultimate end, and until the socialist bastards completely take over the system with their ass-backwards philosophies and policies, absolutely no one and nothing is going to stop me.

Does that seem selfish? It would pretty ironic and quite the contradiction to be a Forex TRADER and to have socialist ideals. Selfishness is a moronic concept concocted by SOCIETY. People are, by nature, meant to be selfish.

I'm pretty sure "every man for himself" is the natural survival mechanism employed by the human brain. Only in a bulls*** socialist society are you expected to put the country before yourself. Piss.

What have we learned in 2,066 years?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

Cicero - 55 BC


I saw the post on anther thread(Posted by Udine), thought it was hilarious.

after 2000 year this shite is still going on.

Is published news the biggest scam or what?

The country is making one of the biggest decisions in the history of the USA and E/U falls all night. Publish a red marked event and the price acts like WWIII just happened.

It is what it is....

The banks keep giving, we keep taking...just a matter a time til they want collateral like Greece. And then the bankers own the country. The IMF owns Greece now. I'm not surprised the UN is trying to cram international gun control down our throats. It's really tough controlling armed slaves. Wonder who really finances the UN?

Isn't it surprising Soro's made a billion in one day on the pound.

I don't believe for a minute this default thing is random.

Like Brave heart said. FREEDOM!!!! It makes you appreciate Jefferson and Jackson and all the founding fathers that said...they're vipers that need to be crushed. Even if they make us suffer.

Yeah sort of. But you cant flush em out with votes because the shit is all over. The corps are running the politicians right? I think the US people is pretty far away from flushing without votes. But on the other hand when a couple of million people start getting hungry for a week or so, i think those people, at least some of them are going to load up their 9 mm and their 7.62 mm and their .45".

Like Celente says: When people have nothing left to loose, they loose it.

So there is complete selfishness and socialst attitudes and nothing other then that? I can imagine there are other concepts of thinking and being significant to the same magnitude, i can think of about a hundred.

I dont think what you are doing is selfish. At least its not sufficient only to use that concept. You cant take responsibility for other people, and you shouldnt. Thats a basic logical premise that i think works well. Wanting to be responsible for other people is to me the beginning of fascism and the long road to a police state. So if you dont take responsibility for other people, at least to me, does not mean you are selfish.

I think what you are doing is intelligent and survivalist. You could be standing outside Macys on Manhattan all day with a plague saying "You are fucked!" and scream at people that the end is near. That would not be doing society a big favor. That would be defeatist and sort of superfluous. It has no intelligent meaning to say that, regardless if in the future its proven either true or false.

What would be doing society a favor would be showing people charts of how and when you shorted USD. I can really understand if you dont want to do that, and it still would not make you selfish. Id say you would sort of still be neutral in that regard, since most people dont do shit for for other people, thats the measure of neutral to perhaps a bit of a superficial extent.

I think is sort of agree with you that there is never a need for sympathy. Sympathy often makes people weak, and to no avail for themselves and to no avail for others who they love. Sympathy often makes a perfectly intelligent and capable person sit around in their sofa crying all day and no matter what happens, that doesnt need to happen. Sympathy and things like that often seem to be the what people call the feeling of not getting what they want.

I do think that a country like the US is so vast, so complicated and so powerful that the common people will always feel sort of detached from it. Not knowing really what is going on and so long their are kept slaves for the fascists, not able to get to know what is going on. But eventually, like all slave economies and fascist economies, there comes a time of great crumbling. When the greed and the insanity is at its maximum and only revolution can take place.