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  • #2,521
  • Aug 3, 2011 7:08pm Aug 3, 2011 7:08pm
Quoting GoMarkets
Hi Guys,

I thought I would make a quick response to all of the comments on here. There is a very good reason for change needing to be put in place, which I am happy to explain.

We have seen a number of clients recently sending through thousands of orders with stops and limits at the same price as entry. The reason for these orders being placed is not to make money from trading, but to achieve one thing only - to generate rebates. This practice comes due to the fact that there are now lots of websites around who encourage people to earn rebates...

Hi Chris,
It was probably my fault. I came back to the computer and realised price was possibly going to break through the support, yes possibly was the word, so I decided to put a sell stop 5 pips below the price. It took a few seconds to set it up, I looked at the price, it was at the same price, however, I didn’t realise it had froze for a few seconds. Clicked on Place and immediately the price jumped 5 pips opened the sell stop and reversed a couple of pips like it usually does when it opens a stop. I continued to add further sell stops a few pips apart and took the profit as price dropped.
This will always happen when your price feed freezes for a few seconds, 2 or 3 times a minutes. It’s not our fault if the price freezes and you get paid anyway for every trade closed whether in profit or not.


Or are you talking about Stop Loss and Take Profit being no more than 2 pips from the open price.
  • #2,522
  • Aug 3, 2011 7:19pm Aug 3, 2011 7:19pm
Quoting Peter-FX
Hi Chris,
It was probably my fault. .
Hi Peter,

I can assure you it was not your fault. You are trading FX in an honest way, these people are not. They are professionals, placing literally thousands of orders deliberately trying to rip off brokers. One client placed around 14,000 of these lots in a month!

Cheers,
Chris
  • #2,523
  • Aug 3, 2011 7:23pm Aug 3, 2011 7:23pm
Quoting GoMarkets
Hi Peter,

I can assure you it was not your fault. You are trading FX in an honest way, these people are not. They are professionals, placing literally thousands of orders deliberately trying to rip off brokers. One client placed around 14,000 of these lots in a month!

Cheers,
Chris

Thanks Chris, I was going to find a priest to have confession.

  • #2,524
  • Aug 3, 2011 7:23pm Aug 3, 2011 7:23pm
Quoting GoMarkets
Hi Guys,

I thought I would make a quick response to all of the comments on here. There is a very good reason for change needing to be put in place, which I am happy to explain.

We have seen a number of clients recently sending through thousands of orders with stops and limits at the same price as entry. The reason for these orders being placed is not to make money from trading, but to achieve one thing only - to generate rebates. This practice comes due to the fact that there are now lots of websites around who encourage people to earn rebates...
Chris, are you saying someone can generate a rebate without paying the spread, if thats the case then close that loop hole, and no one would pay 1 dollar to collect 30 cents.
  • #2,525
  • Aug 3, 2011 8:52pm Aug 3, 2011 8:52pm
I don't understand how these orders would be possible? If two orders are placed simultaneously for instance and closed straight away, wouldn't those who opened the trade simply pay the spread twice?

A little more explanation would be nice.
  • #2,526
  • Aug 3, 2011 9:15pm Aug 3, 2011 9:15pm
Quoting GoMarkets
Hi Guys,

I thought I would make a quick response to all of the comments on here. There is a very good reason for change needing to be put in place, which I am happy to explain.
.....

Thanks,
Chris
Ok. No problems. Question: when you say 2 pips, do you mean 2.0 pips or 2/10ths (0.2) of a pip on the platform?

Forex.com used to have a 50 pip minimum stop loss / limit order distance for regular clients. With pro accounts, you got fractional pip pricing; the same 50 pip minimum became 5.0 pips.

And yes, you are correct that this is not new practice. I can definitely see where the server would have issue with this, although wouldn't the market have to move anyway in the trader's favor in order to close the position? because the "trader" still has to offset the spread, otherwise they would lose money also. I think that even 0.1 pip minimum stop/limit would discourage the practice.

One more important question. this does not prevent user from manually (or using EA) to close trades wherever they desire, correct? This restriction is only on the built-in mt4 limit/stop adjustment made to existing orders, correct?
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #2,527
  • Aug 3, 2011 10:23pm Aug 3, 2011 10:23pm
Quoting Wacky Canuck
I don't understand how these orders would be possible? If two orders are placed simultaneously for instance and closed straight away, wouldn't those who opened the trade simply pay the spread twice?

A little more explanation would be nice.
Sorry, it is not that obvious to many of you as most people do not consider doing such things.

Let me give you an example:

AUDUSD is trading at 1.0695. You place a buy stop at 1.0696 with a stop at 1.0696 and a limit at 1.0696.

The market moves to 1.0696 and your entry condition is met. Instantenously your stop/limit condition is met and the trade is closed with zero profit or loss and you have made your 0.35 of a pip (or whatever rebate you are getting).

It is risk free, and is hugely open to manipulation by these cheats. I perhaps have some stronger words to describe these people, but I will keep them to myself.

I am sorry that out of the whole thing it affects other clients, but it is beyond our control.
  • #2,528
  • Aug 3, 2011 10:26pm Aug 3, 2011 10:26pm
Quoting ybfjax
Ok. No problems. Question: when you say 2 pips, do you mean 2.0 pips or 2/10ths (0.2) of a pip on the platform?
When I say 2 pips I mean 2.0 (20 points according to MT4).

Quoting ybfjax
One more important question. this does not prevent user from manually (or using EA) to close trades wherever they desire, correct? This restriction is only on the built-in mt4 limit/stop adjustment made to existing orders, correct?
People and EAs can close orders wherever they like, the restriction is just on placing limit/stop orders too close to the market.

Cheers,
Chris
  • #2,529
  • Aug 3, 2011 10:48pm Aug 3, 2011 10:48pm
Quoting GoMarkets
Sorry, it is not that obvious to many of you as most people do not consider doing such things.

Let me give you an example:

AUDUSD is trading at 1.0695. You place a buy stop at 1.0696 with a stop at 1.0696 and a limit at 1.0696.

The market moves to 1.0696 and your entry condition is met. Instantenously your stop/limit condition is met and the trade is closed with zero profit or loss and you have made your 0.35 of a pip (or whatever rebate you are getting).
Ah, I see. Thank you for the further explanation and included example. What I fail to understand now is why the limit has been set at 2 pips. So far as I know, this shouldn't affect me in the slightest but wouldn't this be solved with a one pip limit or even half a pip? 2 pips seems a little wide on it's face but you're right, I've no experience with this type of manipulation.

Cheers
  • #2,530
  • Aug 3, 2011 11:06pm Aug 3, 2011 11:06pm
Then again why not 5 pips? Thx for the explanation Chris.
Good Trading
  • #2,531
  • Aug 3, 2011 11:14pm Aug 3, 2011 11:14pm
Quoting GoMarkets
Sorry, it is not that obvious to many of you as most people do not consider doing such things.

Let me give you an example:

AUDUSD is trading at 1.0695. You place a buy stop at 1.0696 with a stop at 1.0696 and a limit at 1.0696.

The market moves to 1.0696 and your entry condition is met. Instantenously your stop/limit condition is met and the trade is closed with zero profit or loss and you have made your 0.35 of a pip (or whatever rebate you are getting).

It is risk free, and is hugely open to manipulation by these cheats. I perhaps have some...
The second your buy stop opens, do you not at that second also pay commision, if not how was that overlooked
  • #2,532
  • Aug 3, 2011 11:30pm Aug 3, 2011 11:30pm
Quoting Pip-postrous
The second your buy stop opens, do you not at that second also pay commision, if not how was that overlooked
We do not actually charge any commission...
  • #2,533
  • Aug 3, 2011 11:34pm Aug 3, 2011 11:34pm
Quoting GoMarkets
Sorry, it is not that obvious to many of you as most people do not consider doing such things.

Let me give you an example:

AUDUSD is trading at 1.0695. You place a buy stop at 1.0696 with a stop at 1.0696 and a limit at 1.0696.

The market moves to 1.0696 and your entry condition is met. Instantenously your stop/limit condition is met and the trade is closed with zero profit or loss and you have made your 0.35 of a pip (or whatever rebate you are getting).

It is risk free, and is hugely open to manipulation by these cheats. I perhaps have some...
It's a poor excuse.
I also opened an account via IB and joining their rebate program, but I(we) never set the order above.
You can distinguish innocent from guilty easily.
This change of stop level is completely thoughtless and indiscriminate attack.

And the next easy excuse is ECN.
This is dishonest and very suspicious.
  • #2,534
  • Aug 3, 2011 11:34pm Aug 3, 2011 11:34pm
Quoting Wacky Canuck
Ah, I see. Thank you for the further explanation and included example. What I fail to understand now is why the limit has been set at 2 pips. So far as I know, this shouldn't affect me in the slightest but wouldn't this be solved with a one pip limit or even half a pip? 2 pips seems a little wide on it's face but you're right, I've no experience with this type of manipulation.

Cheers
2 pips is the level that has been defined to us, but I am hopeful that we will be able to get this reduced and/or removed when we speak to our hedging providers and see what else we can do to avoid it the issue of this toxic trading.

Hopefully you all know, that whatever it may seem like I am seriously working to give you all the best possible trading facility that we can and there is good reason for that..... if you all trade more, I may get a pay rise!
  • #2,535
  • Aug 3, 2011 11:39pm Aug 3, 2011 11:39pm
and so the nedge finally has it's moment of glory... but only for those who get rebates.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #2,536
  • Edited Aug 4, 2011 12:32am Aug 3, 2011 11:57pm | Edited Aug 4, 2011 12:32am
Quoting GoMarkets
Sorry, it is not that obvious to many of you as most people do not consider doing such things.

Let me give you an example:

AUDUSD is trading at 1.0695. You place a buy stop at 1.0696 with a stop at 1.0696 and a limit at 1.0696.

The market moves to 1.0696 and your entry condition is met. Instantenously your stop/limit condition is met and the trade is closed with zero profit or loss and you have made your 0.35 of a pip (or whatever rebate you are getting).

It is risk free, and is hugely open to manipulation by these cheats. I perhaps have...
Quoting Pip-postrous
The second your buy stop opens, do you not at that second also pay commision, if not how was that overlooked
I think i see where pip postrous is coming from. Let me re-illustrate.

1) the buy stop is filled at the ASK price of 1.0696.
2) the attached stop loss/limit offsetting order is set at the BID price of 1.0696.
3a) to meet stop loss/limit order would require that the market BID move |ASK - BID| in order to reach 1.0696 BID price. Client then adds the rebate payback just for placing trade.

3b) if instantaneous offset occurred, the client should show a loss of |ASK - BID| * $ point value. Client then adds the rebate payback just for placing trade.

I'm thinking a mt4 api software glitch or something related to how the order is accepted by trading server is why the instantaneous offset is being filled with zero loss showing on client side. For example above to work in favor of client, they would still need the BID price to move in their favor to break even, and it would technically be legitimate. Of course they would have to be exactly right about almost every single trade to do this.

So it seems these "traders" were taking advantage of this backend glitch? Sorry to hear that. But it does point out an important bug that needs to be looked at. If you close that loophole, there should be no further problems.
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #2,537
  • Aug 4, 2011 12:48am Aug 4, 2011 12:48am
Quoting GoMarkets
Hi,

MT5 level II will be added to our MT5 after the roll out, we are at the moment discussing with our feed providers and metaquotes the best way of implementing and showing this data, as MT5 is brand new it takes a little while for IT to develop the correct bridges to show this. In addition to FX it will also help clients with index contracts when they get released aswell.

Thanks

Chris
Quoting GoMarkets
Hi,

Just to clarify our fully working MT5 demo should be available to all clients next Monday the 27th June , we will of course keep everyone posted and will really appreciate feedback.

Thanks

Chris


Hi Chris,

Just wondering why GoMarkets MT5 platform has Depth of Market option disabled?

Thanks,
Mike.
  • #2,538
  • Aug 4, 2011 1:11am Aug 4, 2011 1:11am
Quoting the-game
Hi Chris,

Just wondering why GoMarkets MT5 platform has Depth of Market option disabled?

Thanks,
Mike.
...erm.... I am a little confused - we haven't launched it yet so I am not sure what you are looking at?
  • #2,539
  • Aug 4, 2011 1:31am Aug 4, 2011 1:31am
Quoting onu
I switched to www.taliban.fuxyou.com

Trading with life vest on. Good training for the trading with all so called "STP/ECN" broker in down under

Dont forget the helmet!
is this for real? there is no such website or even i tried google it but came out nothing! the name suggest something else...???
  • #2,540
  • Aug 4, 2011 3:49am Aug 4, 2011 3:49am
Quoting ybfjax
I think i see where pip postrous is coming from. Let me re-illustrate.

1) the buy stop is filled at the ASK price of 1.0696.
2) the attached stop loss/limit offsetting order is set at the BID price of 1.0696.
3a) to meet stop loss/limit order would require that the market BID move |ASK - BID| in order to reach 1.0696 BID price. Client then adds the rebate payback just for placing trade.

3b) if instantaneous offset occurred, the client should show a loss of |ASK - BID| * $ point value. Client then adds the rebate payback just for placing...
Totally agreed with this. Awaiting for Chris's response. I just opened an account last week, if this is not solved, I will pull out very quick.
Why don't you set the limit to the current spread? This way, you FORCE any client to deal with a 1-spread sized risk at least. 2 pips is arbitrary and very suspicious. Your spread should be more than enough

Quoting GoMarkets
I hope this is only a temporary measure and we can work out an alternative so that the few clients wanting to place their orders that close to the market can do so.
Again, I would be more than happy to accept a limitation equal to the spread. More than that, is unacceptable and suspicious. With my proposal, you keep your interests safe and I can be trading in a fair way.
I understand that you want to avoid multiorder guys with decent lot amounts, but as explained above, either you have a big software glitch or these guys would pay spread right away. If they are aiming for a single pip of take profit (imagine buying at market's current ask, then limit sell 1 pip above) that's legitimate. If not, please elaborate, since I can't see the scam.
Very very disappointing so far.
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